Uncalled for nerfs : is WG simply creating room for Submarines to fit in PvP ?

[Beastofwar]

Nerfing secondary batteries to very low accuracy values that already were of questionable accuracy before that nerf.

 

Nerfing rocket planes of all CV ( although some mildly and some severe ) so they are more or less forced to look to bigger targets like (Light) Cruisers for their rockets. Or battleships. ( fire damage )

 

They all affect DD in game that suddenly get much more freedom, but i don't think that the objective of the nerfings at all. My theory is these changes add up to wanting to create room for Submarines to be fit in to PvP modes !

 

Think of it...the latest verision of Submarines cannot dive for longer periods of time and are required to sail and fight on the surface just as DD are. Diving has become their version of DD popping smoke. But they are also more fragile then DD with lower HP pools and rather slow ( too fast compared to RL but in game still slow ) ....they will probabaly not be seen doing over 50 knots like some DD can....

 

Does WG want them shot with accurate Secondary Battery guns  or Rocketted by CV planes ? No, that would make them nearly unplayble.

 

My point is why can't WG not simply tell us - their customers - what they are doing ? Be honest about their roadmap and direction ? Now they are practically hitting players with nerfs they do not enjoy and don't understand why. I can understand WG making room for a new class, accepting a temporary balance shift : with a very important counter gone  DD will become much more powerful and Cruisers ( now CV's farorite target ) and certainly BB ( many more DD will live to reach them now ) will suffer for it. These are not small consequenses.

 

They however make perfect sense if WG is unsure how Submarines will fare in PvP once introduced. And once these are firmly settled, game balance ofcourse is "normalized" again although i doubt that will incoperate accurate secondaries and rockets.....

 

And if this all prove to be what is actually happening.....aren't - specifially high speed gunboat - DD not very limiting factors for slow and fragile surfaced Submarines also as these are extremely adept at killing small targets fast just like rocket planes were ? New nerfs incoming that slaps them too ?

 

What are your thoughts ?

 

 

[Tanaka_15]

No, wg was not is not and never will be honest. 

[Lootboxer]

11 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

What are your thoughts ?

Too much forward thinking involved for WG to pull. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I think he has a point, especially since destroyers will be the ones enduring even more detection flukes and will be the ones who should be reliably hunt these things. Most agreed that the additional burden on destroyers would be too heavy, so I think it is entirely possible that these changes will lighten dds load somewhat. Subs will come. I sure as hell hope they won't add new 'rework' disaster, because I'm not sure I can stomachs another one.

[lovelacebeer]

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if this was all being done in anticipation of subs. To be fair I actually wondered if Dead Eye was created for the intention of pushing the battleships further back so DDs and Subs could fight in the middle of the map. 
 

Subs are a given WG is extremely stubborn with their bright ideas, I just don’t intend to endure another egregious rework. 

[arttuperkunas]

26 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Nerfing secondary batteries to very low accuracy values that already were of questionable accuracy before that nerf.

 

Nerfing rocket planes of all CV ( although some mildly and some severe ) so they are more or less forced to look to bigger targets like (Light) Cruisers for their rockets. Or battleships. ( fire damage )

 

They all affect DD in game that suddenly get much more freedom, but i don't think that the objective of the nerfings at all. My theory is these changes add up to wanting to create room for Submarines to be fit in to PvP modes !

 

Think of it...the latest verision of Submarines cannot dive for longer periods of time and are required to sail and fight on the surface just as DD are. Diving has become their version of DD popping smoke. But they are also more fragile then DD with lower HP pools and rather slow ( too fast compared to RL but in game still slow ) ....they will probabaly not be seen doing over 50 knots like some DD can....

 

Does WG want them shot with accurate Secondary Battery guns  or Rocketted by CV planes ? No, that would make them nearly unplayble.

 

My point is why can't WG not simply tell us - their customers - what they are doing ? Be honest about their roadmap and direction ? Now they are practically hitting players with nerfs they do not enjoy and don't understand why. I can understand WG making room for a new class, accepting a temporary balance shift : with a very important counter gone  DD will become much more powerful and Cruisers ( now CV's farorite target ) and certainly BB ( many more DD will live to reach them now ) will suffer for it. These are not small consequenses.

 

They however make perfect sense if WG is unsure how Submarines will fare in PvP once introduced. And once these are firmly settled, game balance ofcourse is "normalized" again although i doubt that will incoperate accurate secondaries and rockets.....

 

And if this all prove to be what is actually happening.....aren't - specifially high speed gunboat - DD not very limiting factors for slow and fragile surfaced Submarines also as these are extremely adept at killing small targets fast just like rocket planes were ? New nerfs incoming that slaps them too ?

 

What are your thoughts ?

 

 

My thought the first: CV rockets will be "unnerfed" to some degree, or they may even make the strafing do damage - which is, as I recall, something that you yourself suggested might happen. The change to the attack planes was very radical, and WG has a history of see-sawing with balance change. Furthermore, this is likely to decrease the popularity of CVs, which might in itself elicit a reaction.

 

My thought the second: while this is a quite logical analysis, I am a little sceptical of this level of planning/foresight on the part of WG.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Oh dear. You could be right.

 

Commander rework was, in large part to facilitate the new sub line.

 

Secondaries we’re always more of a nuisance than a threat to DDs as they are agile.

Subs have low health, are not agile and will frequently be in secondary range. 
 

Secondaries could have been a big threat to them, so WG nerfed them.

 

 

[Aragathor]

Hanlon's razor applies, as always.

[MrWastee]

37 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

[...]

 

My point is why can't WG not simply tell us - their customers - what they are doing ? Be honest about their roadmap and direction ? Now they are practically hitting players with nerfs they do not enjoy and don't understand why. I can understand WG making room for a new class, accepting a temporary balance shift : [...]

What are your thoughts ?

 

 

maybe best bow post ever.though i'm not sure if i go along ur conclusion... atm i simply might lack the level of information though.

 

but, and on this i'm sure: they can't tell! it's dynamic, so the roadmap is not set in stone. they simply dont know themselves yet.... which boils down, to it being stupid, if they would tell us details.

coz that now would raise expectations. and, while the rpocess is dynamic, the least what u want is overloading expectations, not noly by ur boss, but by ur customer.

never. promise. anything. that's how they roll.

[Beastofwar]

24 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Oh dear. You could be right.

 

Commander rework was, in large part to facilitate the new sub line.

 

Secondaries we’re always more of a nuisance than a threat to DDs as they are agile.

Subs have low health, are not agile and will frequently be in secondary range. 
 

Secondaries could have been a big threat to them, so WG nerfed them.

 

 

 

Yes indeed.

 

But i think further : what else could devastate low health and slow subs on the surface ? To such extend they will be outright butchered like the nerfed rocket planes were expected to have done ?

 

It could be Submarines are supposed to be under water when they run into foreward DD's in general and engage in a new depth  charge tactics cat&mouse play ......

 

But high speed RDF/RL killer type DD and high speed gun boat type DD will be extremely lethal to them everywhere in the map when on the surface ( as they are designed to kill stealth torpedo boat DD that are very similar to Submarines ) and the new Submarines are forced to be in the surface much of the time. So these predators are not really very different from rocket planes frankly as they once had the same thing on the menu and are very fast with low reaction time as well. 

 

What will happen to them seen the other things that could kill stealth torpedo boats ( = Submarines ) are being nerfed or even taken out of the equation entirely ?

[SeaWolf7]

9 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

maybe best bow post ever.

[SeaWolf7]

21 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Yes indeed.

 

But i think further : what else could devastate low health and slow subs on the surface ? To such extend they will be outright butchered like the nerfed rocket planes were expected to have done ?

 

It could be Submarines are supposed to be under water when they run into DD's.......but high speed RDF/RL killer type DD will be extremely lethal to them everywhere in the map. Not really very different from rocket planes frankly.

You may have a point as the pieces do seem to fit quite conveniently. Also testing the subs recently i could not understand why they have reverted to limited battery? Surely the ability to surface re charge would be more of a balanced solution? But hey this WG we are talking about right?

 

 

[NothingButTheRain]

37 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if this was all being done in anticipation of subs. To be fair I actually wondered if Dead Eye was created for the intention of pushing the battleships further back so DDs and Subs could fight in the middle of the map. 
 

Subs are a given WG is extremely stubborn with their bright ideas, I just don’t intend to endure another egregious rework. 

Personally I don't mind the subs. I just don't like how they are implementing them (and especially the guided stuff which imo has no place in WoWS).

[SeaWolf7]

46 minutes ago, Europizza said:

 

I sure as hell hope they won't add new 'rework' disaster, because I'm not sure I can stomachs another one.

You know its bloody coming mate come on....

[NothingButTheRain]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

Nerfing secondary batteries to very low accuracy values that already were of questionable accuracy before that nerf.

 

Nerfing rocket planes of all CV ( although some mildly and some severe ) so they are more or less forced to look to bigger targets like (Light) Cruisers for their rockets. Or battleships. ( fire damage )

 

They all affect DD in game that suddenly get much more freedom, but i don't think that the objective of the nerfings at all. My theory is these changes add up to wanting to create room for Submarines to be fit in to PvP modes !

 

Think of it...the latest verision of Submarines cannot dive for longer periods of time and are required to sail and fight on the surface just as DD are. Diving has become their version of DD popping smoke. But they are also more fragile then DD with lower HP pools and rather slow ( too fast compared to RL but in game still slow ) ....they will probabaly not be seen doing over 50 knots like some DD can....

 

Does WG want them shot with accurate Secondary Battery guns  or Rocketted by CV planes ? No, that would make them nearly unplayble.

 

My point is why can't WG not simply tell us - their customers - what they are doing ? Be honest about their roadmap and direction ? Now they are practically hitting players with nerfs they do not enjoy and don't understand why. I can understand WG making room for a new class, accepting a temporary balance shift : with a very important counter gone  DD will become much more powerful and Cruisers ( now CV's farorite target ) and certainly BB ( many more DD will live to reach them now ) will suffer for it. These are not small consequenses.

 

They however make perfect sense if WG is unsure how Submarines will fare in PvP once introduced. And once these are firmly settled, game balance ofcourse is "normalized" again although i doubt that will incoperate accurate secondaries and rockets.....

 

And if this all prove to be what is actually happening.....aren't - specifially high speed gunboat - DD not very limiting factors for slow and fragile surfaced Submarines also as these are extremely adept at killing small targets fast just like rocket planes were ? New nerfs incoming that slaps them too ?

 

What are your thoughts ?

 

 

This seems like you did some good thinking there. Could actually be accurate.

 

Whether it is about them lying to us about their intentions of these nerfs having a (hidden) secondary role to help make room for subs to even become viable? It's plausible. Would they be obliged to tell us? Not really, but it would definitely make them seem less sus having made their intentions clear (it would help their PR a bit, especialy in the long run, but they might not like the decreased flexibility this gives as people may call them out if they ever changed directions in the conceptualizing stages of new game mechanics which they have been burned for in the past).

 

I saw Flamuu posting about the skip bombers last year being a gimmick for soviet carriers and if this is true, he would definitely have foresighted this, hats off to him if this is indeed the case.

I remember about 2 years or so ago? They did actually do a lot of explanation on mechanics and such (iirc it was especially sub_octavian doing the explanations and imo he did a pretty good job at that).

 

My worry is that WG seems to prever to make everything flashy and POWBOOMHAHA! spectacular!!!11. But it does detract from the more refined finesses that can also make a game more beautiful and immersive.

[lovelacebeer]

8 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Personally I don't mind the subs. I just don't like how they are implementing them (and especially the guided stuff which imo has no place in WoWS).

 

Submarine warfare is fascinating and I used to love playing silent hunter, like you my concern is the way WG are implementing them,  

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

12 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

 

Submarine warfare is fascinating and I used to love playing silent hunter, like you my concern is the way WG are implementing them,  

Their problem is that they only use one customer profile for all their classes.

[Miscommunication_dept]

39 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

What are your thoughts ?

 

For once utterly deserved and unironic...

 

 

 

[Beastofwar]

I am not against introduction of Submarines at all ( sorry ) but the things WG does now certainly hurt my enjoyful gameplay. Only DD seem unaffected up to now. That may be because the Submarines have become alomst a sub-DD class  ( lol ) but i am not forgetting there are DD-killer type DD also. DD's that butcher "Submarine type" DD that are in existence now such as Asashio.  And there are also (Light) Cruisers that are desinged to do that, albeit less dangerous in open water away from caps as they lack DD-killer DD extreme speed to fall upon slow and fragile Sumbarines everywhere in the map.

 

So what the hell will be next ?

 

And yes, i do enjoy various types of DD too, incl DD killer type DD.....so when these would get slapped with nerfs too, that hits me also and arguably even more because i feel all the other nerfs more then players that do not play CV or secondary BB/Cruisers and like i do : all of them.

 

 

[HassenderZerhacker]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

What are your thoughts ?

my thoughts are reworked CV ruined the game and subs will ruin it even more, if that is even possible.

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

Nerfing secondary batteries to very low accuracy values that already were of questionable accuracy before that nerf.

 

Nerfing rocket planes of all CV ( although some mildly and some severe ) so they are more or less forced to look to bigger targets like (Light) Cruisers for their rockets. Or battleships. ( fire damage )

 

They all affect DD in game that suddenly get much more freedom, but i don't think that the objective of the nerfings at all. My theory is these changes add up to wanting to create room for Submarines to be fit in to PvP modes !

 

Think of it...the latest verision of Submarines cannot dive for longer periods of time and are required to sail and fight on the surface just as DD are. Diving has become their version of DD popping smoke. But they are also more fragile then DD with lower HP pools and rather slow ( too fast compared to RL but in game still slow ) ....they will probabaly not be seen doing over 50 knots like some DD can....

 

Does WG want them shot with accurate Secondary Battery guns  or Rocketted by CV planes ? No, that would make them nearly unplayble.

 

My point is why can't WG not simply tell us - their customers - what they are doing ? Be honest about their roadmap and direction ? Now they are practically hitting players with nerfs they do not enjoy and don't understand why. I can understand WG making room for a new class, accepting a temporary balance shift : with a very important counter gone  DD will become much more powerful and Cruisers ( now CV's farorite target ) and certainly BB ( many more DD will live to reach them now ) will suffer for it. These are not small consequenses.

 

They however make perfect sense if WG is unsure how Submarines will fare in PvP once introduced. And once these are firmly settled, game balance ofcourse is "normalized" again although i doubt that will incoperate accurate secondaries and rockets.....

 

And if this all prove to be what is actually happening.....aren't - specifially high speed gunboat - DD not very limiting factors for slow and fragile surfaced Submarines also as these are extremely adept at killing small targets fast just like rocket planes were ? New nerfs incoming that slaps them too ?

 

What are your thoughts ?

 

 

That's what I've said all along on NA, since the cap re.......khmm..... 

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

 And once these are firmly settled, game balance ofcourse is "normalized" again although i doubt that will incoperate accurate secondaries and rockets.....

Introducing Subs will alter the game, forever. And if they cram enough horse...khmm  things in game ( Airstrikes, hybrids) it will make the game..."dynamic, enjoyable, fun and engaging". Of course actually it would be a giant pile of...khmm...those things, but hey, so are da Cv's and they are like that for some time now

[Lootboxer]

3 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

Furthermore, this is likely to decrease the popularity of CVs, which might in itself elicit a reaction.

Nah, WG has already better solution - Glorious Soviet Carriers (Looking a bit poor now but buffs will come).

[Lootboxer]

3 hours ago, gopher31 said:

Secondaries we’re always more of a nuisance than a threat to DDs as they are agile.

Secondaries have no sigma, shells will fall randomly within the whole dispersion ellipse and this was always too big to evade.

No threat part was mainly by poor dispersion.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

3 hours ago, DariusJacek said:

Looking a bit poor now but buffs will come

Depends who you ask. I think (!) they might end up rather on the OP side, with that unstoppable "first and only" flight. Potatoes - like me - will don't do well with them, but in the right hands they might be devastating...