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Dante_AK

German or japan CV. Or maybe Midway?

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I would like to pick german or japan cv and grind it to  tier t10 but im not sure which one is now better in current  EU random meta.

I have midway but i dont like him much, lexington felt really good but its t8. I would like concentrate more on dealing dmg to enemy bbs and cruisers but with tiny capability to harass dds.

Japanese carrier seems great for that, fine dmg and torpedo speed, AP bombs and HE rockets.

But german cv is very tempting, ap rockets bombs and some less effective torps than japanese cv.

I was only on receiving end of high tier japanese and german cv but only in bb, so i would like get some opinion from way more experienced CV players.

Are AP bombs on japanese cv any good against dds as a last resort weapon ?

And how is german cv AP arsenal against dds, or is it bad against dds.

Im mostly interested in t8 and t10.

And some last thing, should i even try to help against enemy dds or should i just pick german cv tomorrow and only farm damage on bbs and cruisers.

 

If i wrote something confusing pls say ill try to explain.

 

And to ppl that hate cv and will try  to discourage me from touching them pls dont. I have reasons why i want to play CV.

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[-S3I-]
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Japanese CVs are very good, Shokkaku is my favorite CV. That said, It is hard to tell what will change tomorrow with 10.5 changes. It seems rocket planes (that were good on jap CVs) are getting nerfed to the ground.

AP bombs are almost completely useless against DDs so It may turn out that the most effective anti DD tactic would be dropping fighters and hoping someone will shoot the DD...

 

I played only TVI Wesser on German line but found it hard to get good results. Planes are fragile, AP rockets seem inconsistent and if enemy player can angle even a bit, they will fail. Dive bombers and Torpedo bombers are ok. I have no idea how to hunt DDs with ger CVs.

But I seen players getting very good results on ger CVs.

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[-OOF-]
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12 minutes ago, Dante_AK said:

I would like to pick german or japan cv and grind it to  tier t10 but im not sure which one is now better in current  EU random meta.

IJN all the way. Only on T4 the Rhein is better than Hosho, since she got nerfed hard. KM CVs are very situational and suffer from weak planes and high AA exposure. In the current meta of full AA builds and instant panic buttones, IJN is the better choice, especially if you want to grind them, as the whole line is quite strong, contrary to the KM.

 

Quote

Are AP bombs on japanese cv any good against dds as a last resort weapon ?

No. If you have to use your AP bombs against DDs, you already fucced up hard somewhere else - multiple times. IJN can fight DDs with rockets and well placed torps quite effective, AP bombs are only to disrespect them or if your calculated target ceases to exist and you just want to get rid of the drop, before the game ends.

 

Quote

And how is german cv AP arsenal against dds, or is it bad against dds.

Massively depends on the enemy DD and your angle of attack. Overall, they are not a good choice against DDs and provide little damage above the spotting or forced turns. Torps are much more effective and basically do the same.

 

Quote

And some last thing, should i even try to help against enemy dds or should i just pick german cv tomorrow and only farm damage on bbs and cruisers.

Play the heccin game and try to win, KM CVs have armament against every class, but cant really use a chosen one against another target. Sometimes it is more valuable to just harrass a DD with AP rockets by providing spots and force turns, disengagements, etc. than farming damage, which is basically the essence of playing KM CVs well.

 

Just dont expect too much from the Weser or Parseval.

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[TORAZ]
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Just stick with Midway.

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I found Lex to be great, you'll meet her on route to Midway.

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[TACHA]
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Please do not play CV. It ruins the game for many other players, both on your team and on the other. 

Just because the developers are doing their best to remove all fun from the game, doesn't mean you have to support them. 

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godzinę temu, SodaBubbles napisał:

Please do not play CV. It ruins the game for many other players, both on your team and on the other. 

Just because the developers are doing their best to remove all fun from the game, doesn't mean you have to support them. 

Im not supporting WG, they didint see any penny from me for quite a long time and wont see for even longer.

 

3 godziny temu, Dante_AK napisał:

I was only on receiving end of high tier japanese and german cv but only in bb

German bbs,  fantastic target for any cv, and after playing 15 battles in midway i stopt playing cv at all some time ago.

And oh boy recent evening matches alone not only weekends are kinda joke. I dont know if i get in team players that dont care or are whales that also dont care.

I was considering leaving bbs for good and go try dds, but ye carrier is problem, then i was considering some heavy cruisers, but carrier and friendly (not enemy) dds are problem.

So only thing that is left is carrier, and also partof my  reasoning behind playing carrier is quite sinister.

 

Also if players feedback or voice on wg forum would matter at all there would not be any CV problem.

When i was not playing cv what they did? ISE, then annoucement of t9 hybrid, and now what, russian CV, so as you can see me not playing cv didint change anything. 

 

 

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Japanese and especially German carriers are so unnecessarily specialized. I would remain faithful to American carriers; your rockets will be always reliable. HE bombs will always work and break modules thus making further attacks easier unlike the other bomb type which remains at the mercy of dispersion and how many French and American battleships the opposition has. Torpedoes aren't as good as the Japanese but they get the job done. 
 

Practicality over crippling specialization. Always. It might be tempting to go for big damage numbers by focusing on cruisers and battleships but killing or damaging those destroyers earn you caps, makes it easier for friendly destroyers to spot without getting harassed and prevent opposition from advancing thus greatly increasing your chance at winning the game and US carriers are the best when it comes to that. I am more than happy to give up citadel damage which I find to be grossly exaggerated anyways. HE bombs can do the same via fires over time and break multiple modules including AA guns. 

 

OPs questions have already been answered in a previous post so just added my ideas to the mix regarding carriers.

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[H-A-D]
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I personally find the Japanese CVs a bit easier to play than the German ones.   I say this for two reasons:

(1) the German rocket planes.  They are a bit useless against DD/BB, plus they are tricky to play (yes you can citadel CLs but it requires very precise targeting)

(2) the German torpedo planes.  They are good for mopping up low HP targets and maybe flushing out ships sitting in smoke but otherwise I find them a bit useless.  They’re supposed to be good for going after DDs but they’re nowhere near as effective as other nations’ rocket planes for this role. 

Sure the German AP bomb planes can be devastating in the hands of the right CV captain but in random matches, where CVs are typically expected to deal with DDs, I think German CVs are a bit handicapped compared to other nations.

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5 hours ago, Dante_AK said:

I would like to pick german or japan cv and grind it to  tier t10 but im not sure which one is now better in current  EU random meta.

I have midway but i dont like him much, lexington felt really good but its t8. I would like concentrate more on dealing dmg to enemy bbs and cruisers but with tiny capability to harass dds.

Japanese carrier seems great for that, fine dmg and torpedo speed, AP bombs and HE rockets.

But german cv is very tempting, ap rockets bombs and some less effective torps than japanese cv.

I was only on receiving end of high tier japanese and german cv but only in bb, so i would like get some opinion from way more experienced CV players.

Are AP bombs on japanese cv any good against dds as a last resort weapon ?

And how is german cv AP arsenal against dds, or is it bad against dds.

Im mostly interested in t8 and t10.

And some last thing, should i even try to help against enemy dds or should i just pick german cv tomorrow and only farm damage on bbs and cruisers.

 

If i wrote something confusing pls say ill try to explain.

 

And to ppl that hate cv and will try  to discourage me from touching them pls dont. I have reasons why i want to play CV.

Japanese CVs are ok in the current meta. They have quite good plane conceal on torp bombers, which should be your primary weapon against anything isn't a DD. The AP bombs are quite good against cruisers and BBs

Rockets looked good against DDs, but this update they were nerfed. Can't tell how big the nerf is, but it is a nerf. Its quite a hard hitting CV and fairly versatile. Planes are quite fast, and you can stealthily start a torpedo attack, and by the time you are spotted, your attack is already done. Its fun when it works.

 

German CVs are CVs that require a brain to do well. You have to think about what to attack, when to attack, and you need pre-scouting before you plan your attacks. Your planes are the fastest of the bunch, so they can dodge flak a lot, and individual strike power, while class limited, is very big. AP rockets against cruisers. Its a 2 second arming turn, so your angle or attack, needs to be thought of, as well as proper timing. The rockets can blap cruisers for a third of their HP. Against BBs, with proper aiming at superstructure and upper belt, you can get 5-6k attack flights. The bombers are good against cruisers but most particularly against BBs. They can nuke the bejesus out of them. Three cits yield 26.5k (its an estimate, I am saying from pure memory and experience). You usually get 1-2 cits, so its good dmg they can't heal back. The torps have low dmg and flood chance, but with high speed, and good spread so they are quite good against DDs. 

I would suggest to save up one attack flight and send em back to the CV. The extra remaining planes, are there for an extra attack if possible, or for eating the continuous dmg, while the first attacking flight does the dmg. The planes are fragile, but extremely fast, so use them well. 

 

And no, no AP bomber is good against DDs, even as a last resort. You'll hardly hit, them and if you do, you'll get dmg in three digit numbers, not 4. For the Japanese rockets, and for German, its their torps.

 

I'll link you a YT channel to a quite good CV player who played German and Japanese CVs

He made those vids, back when the CVs first came, he is now just showing replays. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOZ2gv_ZGomWNcQU8BBfdQ

Browse through his channel you'll get the German CV guides and impressions, as well as Japanese CVs

If you want only German CVs, here's the channel's playlist

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Dhj7zDmL4&list=PL9JGx-2RrScjCzGseI_VAmg8TLfFwv_8D

 

 

 

I will tell you tho. Japanese are a bit more versatile so probably grinding them first will be the better call, but its in your hands, so nothing much to say:Smile_great:

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[THESO]
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Today's patch changes the balance of the CV lines quite significantly. The rockets got launching delay and they won't be anywhere as effective against small, manouverable targets as before. The leading idea is to make it more difficult for CV's to deal damage to DD's. Instead, the CV should mostly farm on bigger targets but spot the DD's for the team mates. 

 

The main loser here is the Japanese line, since especially Shokaku has powerful and accurate HE rockets that could totally wreck DD's. I would expect the win rates of the Japanese line to lower quite a bit. 

 

The main winner are the Germans, since AP rockets were always weak against DD's. The launching delay they got is less than the other lines so the AP rockets remain excellent against cruisers. Finally, their torps may not hit hard but are very fast and surprisingly effective against DD's.

 

In the German line I've quite enjoyed the Parseval lately. It's fun to play with its fast planes, and it deals damage just as well as the Shokaku or Lexington. It hasn't won the games as easily since you can't molest DD's like especially the Shokaku. But today's patch makes it stronger relative to it's peers. At the end of the line Manfred is a bit frustrating since the bombs got an accuracy nerf soon after release. 

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14 minutes ago, asalonen said:

Today's patch changes the balance of the CV lines quite significantly. The rockets got launching delay and they won't be anywhere as effective against small, manouverable targets as before. The leading idea is to make it more difficult for CV's to deal damage to DD's. Instead, the CV should mostly farm on bigger targets but spot the DD's for the team mates. 

 

The main loser here is the Japanese line, since especially Shokaku has powerful and accurate HE rockets that could totally wreck DD's. I would expect the win rates of the Japanese line to lower quite a bit. 

 

The main winner are the Germans, since AP rockets were always weak against DD's. The launching delay they got is less than the other lines so the AP rockets remain excellent against cruisers. Finally, their torps may not hit hard but are very fast and surprisingly effective against DD's.

 

In the German line I've quite enjoyed the Parseval lately. It's fun to play with its fast planes, and it deals damage just as well as the Shokaku or Lexington. It hasn't won the games as easily since you can't molest DD's like especially the Shokaku. But today's patch makes it stronger relative to it's peers. At the end of the line Manfred is a bit frustrating since the bombs got an accuracy nerf soon after release. 

 

Main Winner is US.

Cause they got Reliable HE DBs to kill DDs and thus if this patch really kills Rockets.

Got a Monopoly on Killing DDs now.

 

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7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Just get Midway.

Just a question in regards to Midway, do you use HVAR or TT and what torpedo bombers do you use, stock vs upgraded ( 4 drop vs 6 drop)? I have a vague memory that the stock torpedo bombers have faster aiming time and are more nimble, right?

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6 minutes ago, affie said:

Just a question in regards to Midway, do you use HVAR or TT and what torpedo bombers do you use, stock vs upgraded ( 4 drop vs 6 drop)? I have a vague memory that the stock torpedo bombers have faster aiming time and are more nimble, right?

 

HVARs are the more reliable and thus imo the superior option. This is especially true after the rocket delay change which makes TTs pretty much incapable of engaging maneuverable targets while HVARs remain largely unaffected.

 

Upgraded torps all the way. The stock ones aim slightly faster I believe but it is definitely not worth losing the additional alpha for it. If you use the stock torps you're missing out on 10k in alpha strike per attack.

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7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

HVARs are the more reliable and thus imo the superior option. This is especially true after the rocket delay change which makes TTs pretty much incapable of engaging maneuverable targets while HVARs remain largely unaffected.

 

Upgraded torps all the way. The stock ones aim slightly faster I believe but it is definitely not worth losing the additional alpha for it. If you use the stock torps you're missing out on 10k in alpha strike per attack.

 

Thank you for the answer, as you say, will be interesting to see  how the rocket delay will affect the CV vs DD play.

So you use sight stabilization to make those BTD Destoyers aim a little faster then I guess to compensate for their more sluggish aimtime?

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15 minutes ago, affie said:

So you use sight stabilization to make those BTD Destoyers aim a little faster then I guess to compensate for their more sluggish aimtime?

 

Yes. Sight Stabilization is a must on Midway not only to benefit the TBs but to make 360 no scopes with the DBs.

 

aae8foZ.gif

 

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2 minuti fa, El2aZeR ha scritto:

 

Yes. Sight Stabilization is a must on Midway not only to benefit the TBs but to make 360 no scopes with the DBs.

 

aae8foZ.gif

 

What DD did you attack?

And yes, on Midway Sight Stabilization is very very useful to do some crazy maneuvers with dive bombers

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Do you want easy WR numbers or do you want to be challenged ?

 

UK CV also exist and are not "garbage" as some will lead you to believe, because they can't make them work. They are not easy however as you have to pick your targets with care as your (carpet) bombs have limited penetration. So these CV require you to know what ship has what deck armour. Or get to know by playing them a lot.

 

The thing is you can just bomb any target and with the right choice of skill ( +5 % fire chance ) they are just like the HE lobbing UK BB : they set ships on fire with every pass. Often multiple fires per pass. This will deplete their heals and is never "useless" damage. But you can do more : when you know to pick targets which decks your bombs can penetrate for explosive damage, your damage considerably goes up.

 

But is is a fact UK CV do not have the stopping power of ( nerfed, now RNG ) AP bombs. Instead they need to damage an opponent down. Like long range Cruisers and BB do. But make no mistake : when the have their damage control party on CD or have depleted their heals death by 3 ( or 4 ) ongoing fires comes very quick. You can set them on ( multiple ) fire at least 2 x per attacking squadron afterall. And you have to focus 1 enemy at a time....alternating targets like other CV do, you can not do or lose efficiency. ( hence that is probably why a lot of CV "unicums" do not like them )

 

The positive side is, that is will be very hard to miss all bombs and do not damage, like the finicky AP bombs of other CV so that part will give less frustration. Bombing is doing damage, but how much damage depends on you ( selecting the deck armour to match your bombs penetration ) THe UK nation flavored very high fire chance of the bombs almost ensures starting ( multiple ) fires every pass.

 

UK torpedoes are very much like US torpedos : slow but powerful. When you need to stop charging BB you use these. They can be dropped close to the target so give littel reaction time. Do not take torpedo acceleration skills to keep that trait.

 

The HE rocket fighters suffered a lot in accuracy nerfings but used to have the ability to slow down considerably making it easier to get the exact timing. However with the changes of the new nerfing i dare not say what will be left of that. But that will be the same for non-premium CV with HE rockets.

 

These were once the strong points according to wows.wiki : ( not sure what is left of the rocket fighters after the nerfings )

 

Pros:

  • Attack aircraft are extremely effective against destroyers with their low speed and tighter turn. Despite the smaller size of British flights and squadrons, they are on par with American attack aircraft in terms of their strike capability.
  • Bombers have the ability to set multiple fires in one pass thanks to their drop pattern.
  • Torpedo bombers are easy to maneuver and to aim with, granting the possibility to attack multiple times the same target.
  • Torpedos have a short arming time.
  • Strong AA suite, making her almost immune to air attack.
  • With the exception of her sister-ship Indomitable, she's the only tier VIII aircraft carrier with an armored deck. Shells aimed at the deck are likely to shatter or bounce providing a good resistance when targeted from long range.

 

Well enough is being said about German CV ( anti-Cruiser but with effort good vs all ) US CV ( very flexible ) and IJN CV ( torpedo damage focussed )

 

 

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Better try haku or FDR(yeah that one is for steel not easy to obtain) rest of CV got nuked this patched with the stupid rocket change. Only ones who dont care that much are FDR cause the rockets where garbage anyway and Kaga. German CV ap rockets suffer as well the target gets even more time to angle and mititage the damage, well done WG entire gimmick of a line is neutered.  You should start offering refunds for these atrocious changes like you did with the smoke change for kutuzov/perth/belfast but who remembers or carres?

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On 6/17/2021 at 7:29 AM, affie said:

Just a question in regards to Midway, do you use HVAR or TT and what torpedo bombers do you use, stock vs upgraded ( 4 drop vs 6 drop)? I have a vague memory that the stock torpedo bombers have faster aiming time and are more nimble, right?

Yes i was using upgraded torpedos and HVAR rocket, but after watching Toptier one video i switched for 2-3 battles rockects to tiny tims and default torps, but i changed it back.

 

On 6/17/2021 at 7:05 AM, Johnny_Moneto said:

*edit*

Yes, thats how most cv players i saw in team or in enemy team are playing in randoms, at start of battle leaving patrol at cap and sometimes second cap and thats it, no more helping just farming dmg.

I saw so many games where ppl are asking for AA defense or spot dd cuz they were harrasing to much our team, or barely alive enemy dd death would allow us to get big advantage but cv still ignored them, and then by suprise some of those cv were victims of those ignored dds plenty of times. 

 

I always support dds in bb no matter what bb, secondary or not, i always liked to get close and help dds with main guns or secondary guns or both, but in recent times dds are hmm selfish, i died or whole flank died cuz we helped friendly dd, happy dd capped and left to another cap, leaving who flank blind, plenty of bbs dont even bother to shoot enemy dds cuz they farm dmg or are too far away, so plenty of times alone i can mostly scare of enemy dd, but when our dds after capping leaves then enemy dd comes back or even 2. But no matter what i do i cant half of the team dien in 5 -6 min. So ye selfish cv.

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