Update 0.10.5: The Grand Battle

[Astrospade]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:00 PM, The_EURL_Guy said:

Super battleships make their "grand" entrance in a new battle type codenamed the "Grand Battle"; we've deactivated allied damage; the rocket-launching mechanics for attack aircraft have evolved; and loads more!

Read it on the portal

I have found that the grand battle is a waste as the ships couldn't hit the side of a barn and the meter to improve your accuracy resets before your guns can reload and fire:-(

[YabbaCoe]

On 6/26/2021 at 4:27 PM, Astrospade said:

I have found that the grand battle is a waste as the ships couldn't hit the side of a barn and the meter to improve your accuracy resets before your guns can reload and fire:-(

After some time of not firing, the meter slowly resets. When you fill the meter, it is launched automatically for 50 seconds. So during this time you have time to reload and fire.

I need to say, that for example Satsuma with enhanced accuracy is amazing while the boost is running.

[Fesvil]

Don't know where to begin with the problems of this mode.. Satsuma and Hanover are.. MEH.. Satsuma, nice, awesome guns and accuracy.. But if nothing is spotted or you can shoot at (your guns rotate at the same speed the earth revolves around the sun) then your almost full meter is reset in less than 2minutes.. frustrating I think is the word I'm searching for.

 

Hanover's secondary boost is awesome, but your secondary hits don't increase the meter so you have to be within 10-12 km range when it activates for it to be useful, much better if you're closer, but that means you will eat fish like a cat on crack cocaine

 

But, this mode is AAAWESOME if you play a DD. Which is why this mode has no cruiser presence in about 50% of the games, why bother? you have 3 monsters aiming at you the second you're spotted by the 4 or 5 dd's on the opposing team, Radar? Nice decorative feature, useless because the second you can use it is the second you are dead (yeah yeah yeah, I know I am exaggerating a bit), but damn it's fun to play torpedo boats in this game mode. I LOVE Benham, Z-44, Shimakaze (this mode was made for Shima I think).

 

I have guildmates who's leveled their DD's in this mode alone... Is Grand Battle good? Heck no, I have more Intelligence reports than I need, The big ships takes 2-3 minutes to enter battle (unless in a div with smaller ships) are slow, eat torps like a kid eats candy and are generally OP, but 100% dependent on your team spotting, because you cannot brawl for crap, spot for crap and maneuver for crap. 

 

So, what's good about this mode then? Easy damage, easy credits and FUN in a DD for once. CV's are ultra rare, no idea why, there is so much tonnage to have fun with it's absurd. For you FDR owners out there, let it out for some absurd damage farming. AA on those big lumps are ok, but usually softened by DD gunboats to a docile level.

 

If you keep this mode you should rename it to "Fish in a barrel mode".

 

-Fes

[TheWarJaC]

Captains, 

We have increased the number of Intelligence Reports required to go into the Grand Battle at the helm of a super battleship from 14 to 16. We also removed the daily invoice of 3 Intelligence Reports.

The changes will improve the situation with long waiting times in the queue and the increasing number of bots in Grand Battle.

 

Good luck in battles!

[Redwing6891]

My five cents...

 

I liked that WG introduced Grand Battle mode to give all players a taste of what playing at tier X would be like.

 

Having tried it, it's a 'no, thank you' from me. You're trying to maneuver a wallowing bath tub to get a shot at a barely glimpsed opponent while constantly dodging endless barrages of long range torpedoes. This is not fun.

 

Thanks for the artwork though, which is awesome. 

[TheWarJaC]

10 minutes ago, Redwing6891 said:

My five cents...

 

I liked that WG introduced Grand Battle mode to give all players a taste of what playing at tier X would be like.

 

Having tried it, it's a 'no, thank you' from me. You're trying to maneuver a wallowing bath tub to get a shot at a barely glimpsed opponent while constantly dodging endless barrages of long range torpedoes. This is not fun.

 

Thanks for the artwork though, which is awesome. 

Thanks for your feedback Redwing, how would you improve the Grand Battle mode? 

 

(For the wallpaper, you are very welcome 😉)

[Redwing6891]

22 hours ago, TheWarJaC said:

Thanks for your feedback Redwing, how would you improve the Grand Battle mode? 

 

(For the wallpaper, you are very welcome 😉)

Well, thank you kindly for asking, @TheWarJaC but I am not sure I am the best person to answer that, having only dabbled in these high tier games. I have been with the game since the open beta yet I wouldn't consider myself an expert player by any means. My thing is more  naval history. Naval trivial pursuit anyone? ;) 

 

With that qualifier attached, here is my view - and please bear with me even if I tell my grandmother how to suck eggs in the beginning:

 

I mentioned elsewhere on the forum that warships are weapons designed for a purpose. Battleships were designed to engage other battleships with gunfire over long ranges yet withstand returning fire to some extent. As long as no other force modifiers (like torpedo boats, airplanes or - God forbid - submarines) were thrown into the equation, they performed that role very well indeed. Tsushima and Jutland Phase I are prime examples. They were like boxing matches over long ranges. Whoever shot and maneuvered (and commanded) better, prevailed. Jutland Phase III is an example of the force modifier element having a decisive influence: Simply the fear of torpedoes (not even actual torpedoes) was enough to spoil the fight between dreadnoughts.

 

In its present set-up, the Grand Battle is essentially a Tier X Random Battle with a side entry for players (like me) who don't have a tier X tech tree or premium ship. This may be because they have not advanced far enough up the tech tree yet or are simply not interested in higher tier gameplay (like me). This leads to the super-battleships essentially being target practice as described above. Not necessarily because players don't know how to play them but because the force modifiers tip the balance away from battleships. As said, I am not a pro but I know how to play a ship, sometimes even badly. ;) Anyway, if the point of the exercise is to get more players interested in higher tier gameplay, the outcome is the same regardless of player quality, which is mission failed: Non-regular tier X players will be turned off, and regular tier X players will just ab(use) this mode to farm experience for their destroyers or maybe even carriers.

 

Grand Battle should offer something interesting yet different to a random tier X battle. So here is my revolutionary thought:

 

Let Grand Battle be the mode that all battleship designers and admirals ever dreamed of - battleships only.

 

No CVs, no destroyers, no cruisers - nothing but battleships. This would make a nice closing the circle for WG as well, as I seem to recall that WoWS was first envisaged as 'World of Battleships' all those years ago. 

 

Now that would be really grand, deserving of the name, and might even entice me to climb that tech tree...

[feroober]

Attac aircraft wit rocket total,disaster,NOT GOOD.

[TheWarJaC]

19 hours ago, Redwing6891 said:

Well, thank you kindly for asking, @TheWarJaC but I am not sure I am the best person to answer that, having only dabbled in these high tier games. I have been with the game since the open beta yet I wouldn't consider myself an expert player by any means. My thing is more  naval history. Naval trivial pursuit anyone? ;) 

 

With that qualifier attached, here is my view - and please bear with me even if I tell my grandmother how to suck eggs in the beginning:

 

I mentioned elsewhere on the forum that warships are weapons designed for a purpose. Battleships were designed to engage other battleships with gunfire over long ranges yet withstand returning fire to some extent. As long as no other force modifiers (like torpedo boats, airplanes or - God forbid - submarines) were thrown into the equation, they performed that role very well indeed. Tsushima and Jutland Phase I are prime examples. They were like boxing matches over long ranges. Whoever shot and maneuvered (and commanded) better, prevailed. Jutland Phase III is an example of the force modifier element having a decisive influence: Simply the fear of torpedoes (not even actual torpedoes) was enough to spoil the fight between dreadnoughts.

 

In its present set-up, the Grand Battle is essentially a Tier X Random Battle with a side entry for players (like me) who don't have a tier X tech tree or premium ship. This may be because they have not advanced far anough up the tech tree yet or are simply not interested in higher tier gameplay (like me). This leads to the super-battleships essentially being target practice as described above. Not necessarily because players don't know how to play them but because the force modifiers tip the balance away from battleships. As said, I am not a pro but I know how to play a ship, sometimes even badly. ;) Anyway, if the point of the exercise is to get more players interested in higher tier gameplay, the outcome is the same regardless of player quality, which is mission failed: Non-regular tier X players will be turned off, and regular tier X players will just ab(use) this mode to farm experience for their destroyers or maybe even carriers.

 

Grand Battle should offer something interesting yet different to a random tier X battle. So here is my revolutionary thought:

 

Let Grand Battle be the mode that all battleship designers and admirals ever dreamed of - battleships only.

 

No CVs, no destroyers, no cruisers - nothing but battleships. This would make a nice closing the circle for WG as well, as I seem to recall that WoWS was first envisaged as 'World of Battleships' all those years ago. 

 

Now that would be really grand, deserving of the name, and might even entice me to climb that tech tree...

Well, apparently you were the right person. Thank you for your this Captain!

[tbadavie]

as it is grand battles is rather lacklustre . the suggestion of only allowing BB's ... now that is a good idea.

It would fill a role many have asked and wanted for awhile .. a BB only battle mode.... personally i think BB drivers are cry babies :P..

everyone knows the king of the sea is a CV 

[_null_target_]

On 7/7/2021 at 11:18 AM, TheWarJaC said:

Thanks for your feedback Redwing, how would you improve the Grand Battle mode? 

 

(For the wallpaper, you are very welcome 😉)

My half a cent would be to make this mode like this: Super-BBs helmed by bots and DDs helmed by players, nothing else. :)

 

On the other hand, if you want to "fix" BBs, I think you would have to make secondary artillery  manually aimed.

You could totally disable automatic secondary fire, make players work for it, have them aim and fire them! Though, secondary range would need increased for this to work, as manual secondaries being outranged by most DDs would make this feature laughable...

[TheWarJaC]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:09 AM, tbadavie said:

as it is grand battles is rather lacklustre . the suggestion of only allowing BB's ... now that is a good idea.

It would fill a role many have asked and wanted for awhile .. a BB only battle mode....

Do you have any other suggestions on how we could improve the Gran Battle Mode? 

[ColonelPete]

On 7/9/2021 at 9:55 AM, _null_target_ said:

My half a cent would be to make this mode like this: Super-BBs helmed by bots and DDs helmed by players, nothing else. :)

 

On the other hand, if you want to "fix" BBs, I think you would have to make secondary artillery  manually aimed.

You could totally disable automatic secondary fire, make players work for it, have them aim and fire them! Though, secondary range would need increased for this to work, as manual secondaries being outranged by most DDs would make this feature laughable...

Why is there a need to fix BB? They work fine.

With player controlled secondaries, BB would wipe the floor with all other classes.

[koliber_1984]

What will happen with unused Intelligence Reports?

[Catslave]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:57 PM, burning_phoneix said:

It absolutely does change everything. It's not 2 seconds. It's over 4 seconds for most players now, with a big warning to the DD player that a shot is coming and where it will land. If you can't dodge this telegraphed attack in a DD nearly 100% of the time, never play DDs ever again.

 

And no it's NOT a buff to be immune to DD AA because majority of DDs have poor AA anyway.

 

The only thing this will do is cause me to not use my rockets till I have no choice and if I do have a choice, I'm just going to go farm BBs because they're too slow to change direction which is basically the worst habit of CV players.

massive 606 battles, i am impressed.
 

also your statement proves ignorance and more. Esp. the Swedish DD have good AA, also you can use the invulnerability to bypass the AA of other ships trying to save the DD ... the fact that you don't even consider this says more then enough. You can literally just strike a target in the middle of his team...a total of 12 ships firing their AA doing absolutely nothing because the change made your planes invulnerable...gud design...

And 4 seconds...oh boy. how many DD have less then 4 seconds rudder shift ? and by how far ? how many DD can stop / accelerate in 4 seconds enough to be more then 1.5times their ship lengths away from the spot they would otherwise be to make the rockets miss ?

What this change does is forcing carrier players to actually predict the targets movement, something every other class has to do with all weapons, main difference is that for guns and torpedoes you have to predict the enemy movement for 10seconds+, while carrier only what...2seconds ? 4 seconds ?

 

But how dare someone expect actual brain activity from a carrier player.

[DarthB0B0]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:47 AM, Catslave said:

massive 606 battles, i am impressed.
 

also your statement proves ignorance and more. Esp. the Swedish DD have good AA, also you can use the invulnerability to bypass the AA of other ships trying to save the DD ... the fact that you don't even consider this says more then enough. You can literally just strike a target in the middle of his team...a total of 12 ships firing their AA doing absolutely nothing because the change made your planes invulnerable...gud design...

And 4 seconds...oh boy. how many DD have less then 4 seconds rudder shift ? and by how far ? how many DD can stop / accelerate in 4 seconds enough to be more then 1.5times their ship lengths away from the spot they would otherwise be to make the rockets miss ?

What this change does is forcing carrier players to actually predict the targets movement, something every other class has to do with all weapons, main difference is that for guns and torpedoes you have to predict the enemy movement for 10seconds+, while carrier only what...2seconds ? 4 seconds ?

 

But how dare someone expect actual brain activity from a carrier player.

 

Well no, DD can very easily dodge the very slow telegraphed rocket attacks and bombs drop where the hell they want but when a gun equipped ship is close to a DD travel time is far less and lets be honest there are more chances to hit with dispersion as it is.. Limited time to play with it I grant but still this is pretty MEH. Long range shooting at a DD is doomed to fail and effectively that's what you have with this change. And up-tiered CV planes still melt away. My DD will be fine thanks.

 

Now I do not like CV and very rarely play them (you being the sort to check as above will I am sure confirm) , but even I have to say this is pretty damn awful. No wonder there is currently a bonus on successful completion of a level in Naval battles because it ain't happening lol.

 

Time to go play in the Asashio.

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, DarthB0B0 said:

 

Well no, DD can very easily dodge the very slow telegraphed rocket attacks and bombs drop where the hell they want but when a gun equipped ship is close to a DD travel time is far less and lets be honest there are more chances to hit with dispersion as it is.. Limited time to play with it I grant but still this is pretty MEH. Long range shooting at a DD is doomed to fail and effectively that's what you have with this change.

And still evading DD get hit at 16km....

When ships can do it, so can CV with an area attack and much shorter prediction time.

[burning_phoneix]

On 8/13/2021 at 12:47 PM, Catslave said:

massive 606 battles, i am impressed.
 

also your statement proves ignorance and more. Esp. the Swedish DD have good AA, also you can use the invulnerability to bypass the AA of other ships trying to save the DD ... the fact that you don't even consider this says more then enough. You can literally just strike a target in the middle of his team...a total of 12 ships firing their AA doing absolutely nothing because the change made your planes invulnerable...gud design... 

 

If you cared about stats so much, why are yours private?

 

To attack a DD in the middle of enemy ships you have to fly in their midst, vulnerable all the while. You must initiate the attack which is around 3 to 4 seconds of being in the aiming mode which is NOT invulnerable. If the enemy ship notices this and starts maneuvering, attempting to adjust will increase bloom of the reticle. The full attack is something around 8 or 9 seconds on a DD (an ambitious shot with a surface ship), with a FULL warning to the enemy player (basically a free incoming fire alert perk). During the 4 second "invincibility" you can't actually do anything with your squadron so its a moot point.

On 8/13/2021 at 12:47 PM, Catslave said:

And 4 seconds...oh boy. how many DD have less then 4 seconds rudder shift ? and by how far ? how many DD can stop / accelerate in 4 seconds enough to be more then then 1.5times their ship lengths away from the spot they would otherwise be to make the rockets miss ?

As I said, the actual attack varies between 8 or so seconds depending on the nation. The attack does not need a full rudder shift to avoid the projectiles. They are far more grouped together than ship artillery.

 

On 8/13/2021 at 12:47 PM, Catslave said:

What this change does is forcing carrier players to actually predict the targets movement, something every other class has to do with all weapons, main difference is that for guns and torpedoes you have to predict the enemy movement for 10seconds+, while carrier only what...2seconds ? 4 seconds ? 

 

But how dare someone expect actual brain activity from a carrier player. 

No a carrier does not have "only 8 or 10 seconds" you need 30 or 40 seconds. Other ships can fire multiple times to attempt to gauge the distance and evasion patterns of the enemy, all the while have a semi-lock on system from WG. A Carrier player with rockets has one pass at a target that has 10 second forewarning that he is being aimed at before the attack is over and the planes need to go back to the carrier (they'll be shredded by AA before they can get any other shots unless the DD is well and truly alone).

Going that length of time without doing significant damage to the enemy is a waste of a CVs time.

 

In any case, rocket planes are still useful against BBs. As are Bombs and Torpedos so its just made the game simpler for me. Just farm BBs.

[Catslave]

9 hours ago, burning_phoneix said:

No a carrier does not have "only 8 or 10 seconds" you need 30 or 40 seconds. Other ships can fire multiple times to attempt to gauge the distance and evasion patterns of the enemy, all the while have a semi-lock on system from WG. A Carrier player with rockets has one pass at a target that has 10 second forewarning that he is being aimed at before the attack is over and the planes need to go back to the carrier (they'll be shredded by AA before they can get any other shots unless the DD is well and truly alone).

Going that length of time without doing significant damage to the enemy is a waste of a CVs time.

 

In any case, rocket planes are still useful against BBs. As are Bombs and Torpedos so its just made the game simpler for me. Just farm BBs.

kinda interesting to see the consistency in your statements... 4 seconds turned into 8 seconds and now became 30-40seconds and/or 10 seconds. Ranging shots mean nothing unless the target sails in a straight line at constant speed....doesn't change the fact that once you fire you cannot adjust the trajectory of the shots, depending on ship and range the shells will be in the air for up to almost 20seconds. As a carrier you can simply adjust your run until the last moment...or even cancel it. That comes at the cost of some accuracy, depending on carrier, but it sure beats fully missing.

Citing the "lock on system" from WG makes me think you never played anything else but carrier. That aim assist is more a detriment then a benefit.

 

 

"A carrier player has 1 pass" ... wtf ? Last time i checked every non-soviet carrier has multiple attacks per squad. Loosing 1 or 2 planes means nothing since planes magically regrow and if your attack wing looses a plane, another one from the squad will magically take its place without any downside." They'll be  shredded by AA before they can get any other shots" ...sounds like a "git gud" problem. It has become an everyday occurrence that you can watch some guy with abysmal stats on his carrier yolo through multiple ships and strike 2 or 3 times while the AA produces some nice firework. I'm not even talking about some (super) unicum.

 

"Just farm BB" ....great, you are the kind of carrier player that looses games then, great choice. The only ship capable of safely outspotting and hunting any ship anywhere on the map, the only ship capable of hunting and finishing of DD regardless of positions on the map.....and you farm BB .....you fit nicely with the range mod BB shooting HE from the map border and then complaining that the team has no caps...