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Purnylla

Why do all special commanders have no rank?

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All special commanders, those with bonuses or just the cosmetic ones, are "Ship Commander" rather than having their nation's navy rank based upon the number of skillpoints they have. Why? I'd prefer them having their appropiate rank just like the non-special commanders.

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I asked that very same thing before and it actually crossed my mind yesterday again.

 

The fact that a naval captain rank IRL takes a lifetime serving and climbing the career ladder and in the end is responsible for the lives of 100-1000+ people on a ship or for admirals many fold that for entire fleets, which cannot be taken lightly, does not mean that in a fictional game a portrait that did or did not have such rank IRL cannot be given such rank in this fictional game as all the other portraits are given them for XP accumulation which is a fictional game mechanic.

 

But i guess most of the special captains are portaits of real persons and different etiquette applies to ( being allowed to use ) them.

 

But the WG representatives should really explain the actual matter at hand such as @YabbaCoe

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

IBut i guess most of the specials captain were real persons and different etiquette applies to ( being allowed to use ) them.

 

real persons?

 

image.png.64546285c5948f337329bf3ad49565cf.pngimage.png.452048f0ea56eb12f760ede41b94ff41.pngimage.png.3781f0af9eb4971026a8161a2691edad.pngimage.png

 

 

 

and even though some may be real persons, I doubt these have any navy rank in real life

 

image.png.c2c6ab11eeab150287e84376c43ae9be.pngimage.png.2070cd23d26f6f7130842f16f3363499.png

 

And even for those special commanders who were real navy commanders, wouldn't using their highest achieved rank be more appropiate than just "Ship Commander"? 

 

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Vor 5 Minuten, Beastofwar sagte:

But i guess most of the special captain were real persons and different etiquette applies to ( being allowed to use ) them.

Most nations with a western style of law system, be it common or civil law, protect the personality right of deceased people mostly only for a relatively short term. In Germany, for instance, you've got a construct called Postmortales Persönlichkeitsrecht (postmortal personality rights) and torts like §189 StGB Verunglimpfung des Andenkens Verstorbener (vilification of the memory of a decedent, §189 of the German criminal code), the latter is something where any procedure befalls to the relatives. The postmortal rights result from the constitutional protection of the dignity of any human. Hence, any protection by law of the memory of deceased people depends on how vivid the memory is on people living at the date of the case.

 

For marine officers that lived in the middle third of the 20th century, in-game depictions should be IMHO relatively hassle-less, as they are dead by more that a quarter of a century now and their memory is not present in the broad public anymore.

 

Regards, Nightowl

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18 minutes ago, Purnylla said:

 

real persons?

 

image.png.64546285c5948f337329bf3ad49565cf.pngimage.png.452048f0ea56eb12f760ede41b94ff41.pngimage.png.3781f0af9eb4971026a8161a2691edad.pngimage.png

 

 

 

and even though some may be real persons, I doubt these have any navy rank in real life

 

image.png.c2c6ab11eeab150287e84376c43ae9be.pngimage.png.2070cd23d26f6f7130842f16f3363499.png

 

And even for those special commanders who were real navy commanders, wouldn't using their highest achieved rank be more appropiate than just "Ship Commander"? 

 

 

I dare say i see 4 real people ( models/actors, WG employees and even a CC ) that probably ( but not impossible ) were never naval officers :Smile_teethhappy:

 

And whatever their rank is or is not when you command a ship you are a "ship commander" But that is so broad, it is meaningless and contrasts too much with the other captains that do get ranks. These ranks are important for "immersion" into the game.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Northern_Nightowl said:

Most nations with a western style of law system, be it common or civil law, protect the personality right of deceased people mostly only for a relatively short term. In Germany, for instance, you've got a construct called Postmortales Persönlichkeitsrecht (postmortal personality rights) and torts like §189 StGB Verunglimpfung des Andenkens Verstorbener (vilification of the memory of a decedent, §189 of the German criminal code), the latter is something where any procedure befalls to the relatives. The postmortal rights result from the constitutional protection of the dignity of any human. Hence, any protection by law of the memory of deceased people depends on how vivid the memory is on people living at the date of the case.

 

For marine officers that lived in the middle third of the 20th century, in-game depictions should be IMHO relatively hassle-less, as they are dead by more that a quarter of a century now and their memory is not present in the broad public anymore.

 

Regards, Nightowl

 

So not only etiquette but also possible law infringement. Cause enough i would say.

 

Still i would like to hear what WG's reason is...by WG.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I asked that very same thing before and it actually crossed my mind yesterday again.

 

The fact that a naval captain rank IRL takes a lifetime serving and climbing the career ladder and in the end is responsible for the lives of 100-1000+ people on a ship or for admirals many fold that for entire fleets, which cannot be taken lightly, does not mean that in a fictional game a portrait that did or did not have such rank IRL cannot be given such rank in this fictional game as all the other portraits are given them for XP accumulation which is a fictional game mechanic.

 

But i guess most of the special captains are portaits of real persons and different etiquette applies to ( being allowed to use ) them.

 

But the WG representatives should really explain the actual matter at hand such as @YabbaCoe

 

 

I am not sure, what exactly is a reason there, but I will try to ask for more information.

But, today is Bank Holiday in Russia, so my colleagues will be back tomorrow, so I hope I won't forget :cap_viking:

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6 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

I am not sure, what exactly is a reason there, but I will try to ask for more information.

But, today is Bank Holiday in Russia, so my colleagues will be back tomorrow, so I hope I won't forget :cap_viking:

so, more wodka for them? i wonder with which brilliant ideas they are going to come back tomorrow. 

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2 horas antes, ghostbuster_ dijo:

so, more wodka for them? i wonder with which brilliant ideas they are going to come back tomorrow. 

Dragons, black holes, mazinger z and more planes!

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2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

I am not sure, what exactly is a reason there, but I will try to ask for more information.

But, today is Bank Holiday in Russia, so my colleagues will be back tomorrow, so I hope I won't forget :cap_viking:

You are aware that emails don't evaporate when not read immediately ? Or the guys in Russia have not yet figured out what those are and what to do with them ? Given some of the issues with the game I'd not be that much surprised ....

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Jingles was in the Royal Navy, though what rank he attained I don't know.

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3 hours ago, Purnylla said:

image.png.64546285c5948f337329bf3ad49565cf.png

awwwwww laaaaaaawwwwwwwdddddd.

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4 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

I asked that very same thing before and it actually crossed my mind yesterday again.

 

The fact that a naval captain rank IRL takes a lifetime serving and climbing the career ladder and in the end is responsible for the lives of 100-1000+ people on a ship or for admirals many fold that for entire fleets, which cannot be taken lightly, does not mean that in a fictional game a portrait that did or did not have such rank IRL cannot be given such rank in this fictional game as all the other portraits are given them for XP accumulation which is a fictional game mechanic.

 

But i guess most of the special captains are portaits of real persons and different etiquette applies to ( being allowed to use ) them.

 

But the WG representatives should really explain the actual matter at hand such as @YabbaCoe

 

 

 

image.png.4cbc66a903cf290552f6972923b6b4fc.png

 

:cap_cool:

 

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18 hours ago, Pametrada said:

Jingles was in the Royal Navy, though what rank he attained I don't know.

I do assume he used another name when in the Navy though. So that shouldn't be a problem to give "The Mighty Jingles" a different rank?

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3 hours ago, Purnylla said:

I do assume he used another name when in the Navy though. So that shouldn't be a problem to give "The Mighty Jingles" a different rank?

Yes, he has a real name of course. From what he was saying, I think he was a rating, not an officer  ( sorry Jingles, if you're reading this and I am wrong ). :Smile_honoring: 

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On YT (which I detest) Jingles has gone by the rank of Admiral (regardless of RL). The problem gamewise is, of course, that regular captains get promoted, while apparently special commanders don't.

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51 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

On YT (which I detest) Jingles has gone by the rank of Admiral (regardless of RL). The problem gamewise is, of course, that regular captains get promoted, while apparently special commanders don't.

They are like James T. Kirk that managed to get demoted back to captain or Jean-Luc Picard that never took a promotion pass Captain during TNG despite being offered at least once the post of Headmaster of Starfleet Academy.

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14 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

They are like James T. Kirk that managed to get demoted back to captain or Jean-Luc Picard that never took a promotion pass Captain during TNG despite being offered at least once the post of Headmaster of Starfleet Academy.

 

Which reminds me, how come we have the Enterprise in the game but no James T. Kirk! :Smile_trollface:

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So, for special commanders, it was decided that nono of them would have same rank as it is with ordinary commanders.

The decision was made like this, as in some countries civilians can't have military ranks. Those special commanders are either fictional or civilians (also Jingles), so it was decided that none of them would have a rank. Mostly not to run into legal problems. 

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4 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

So, for special commanders, it was decided that nono of them would have same rank as it is with ordinary commanders.

The decision was made like this, as in some countries civilians can't have military ranks. Those special commanders are either fictional or civilians (also Jingles), so it was decided that none of them would have a rank. Mostly not to run into legal problems. 

 

Thnx for taking the effort to check on the exact reason. I have been wondering about that for a long time.  :Smile_medal:

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11 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

So, for special commanders, it was decided that nono of them would have same rank as it is with ordinary commanders.

The decision was made like this, as in some countries civilians can't have military ranks. Those special commanders are either fictional or civilians (also Jingles), so it was decided that none of them would have a rank. Mostly not to run into legal problems. 

Thanks for investigating and explaining. However I still don't quite understand why fictional special commanders cannot have a rank, while the ordinary commanders can have ranks without any legal issues? These ordinary commanders have fictional names too, and considering the random name generator uses first names and surnames which are quite common of their nation, it's quite likely that one or more people with the exact same name would exist in real life. How come that is not an issue, but special commanders are?

 

Also, here on the forums all forum users have a rank assigned to them. I bet most of us are civilians. If forum users can have a military rank without any legal issues, then why is it a problem when, for example, The Mighty Jingles (not his real name I assume) would have a rank within the game? I'm just not seeing the logic behind WGs decision yet... 

 

The thing is, personally I think seeing my ship commanders gain new ranks is one of the nice little 'rewards' for levelling up a commander, it's some sort of progression even though it's just visual. It's such a shame to see those very special commanders (like Kuznetsov or Lüntjens), which require quite a bit of an investment to obtain, are missing their rank. Even though those commanders should be awesome, as they're the best the game has to offer, my ordinary commanders have ranks that sound so much cooler than just "Ship Commander", and do offer this little visual progression/reward rank feature. 

 

So I hope there's still some possibilities to add military ranks to at least a number of special commanders. 

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