Salem or Yoshino

[Kiagy]

Its difficult to decide which to buy with coal.

 

After watching youtube videos of both ships numerous times i still can't decide.

 

I could carry on saving coal for Neustrashimy but not convinced its worth 298k coal.

 

What do you think ?

[N00Boo7]

I have all 3 ( I took Neutra when was steel). Depends of what u prefer to play. Salem is DesMoines with super heal, but shorter range radar, Yoshino is long range HE spammer with meme torps, and very squishy, all BBs will want a piece of easy dmg on u. Neustrashimy for me is best tier 9 DD for competitive mode, superheal, good concealment, decent torps. 

[Beastofwar]

48 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

Its difficult to decide which to buy with coal.

 

After watching youtube videos of both ships numerous times i still can't decide.

 

I could carry on saving coal for Neustrashimy but not convinced its worth 298k coal.

 

What do you think ?

 

One is a SuperCruiser that can't turn ( or it will explode ) and has to fight long range.

 

Other is a fragile Cruiser in the "waifu" range that can't be in the open and must fight close-medium range.

 

So sniping long range or island hugging ? What do you do best and do you like these playstyles at all ?

[Kiagy]

34 minutes ago, N00Boo7 said:

I have all 3 ( I took Neutra when was steel). Depends of what u prefer to play. Salem is DesMoines with super heal, but shorter range radar, Yoshino is long range HE spammer with meme torps, and very squishy, all BBs will want a piece of easy dmg on u. Neustrashimy for me is best tier 9 DD for competitive mode, superheal, good concealment, decent torps. 

Interesting, i like all classes but would say DD is my favourite, maybe i should save more for neustra, given me something to think about

[Kiagy]

22 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

One is a SuperCruiser that can't turn ( or it will explode ) and has to fight long range.

 

Other is a fragile Cruiser in the "waifu" range that can't be in the open and must fight close-medium range.

 

So sniping long range or island hugging ? What do you do best and do you like these playstyles at all ?

I'm far from the greatest cruiser player, i do like them though, you ruled out Yoshino for me, maybe Salem or Neustrashimy are the one i should be looking at, thanks

[Ocsimano18]

I have the Yoshino, it’s a fun ship and a must have, if you like the Japanese kiting cruiser playstyle. It can turn with double rudder installed. I’m also considering getting the Salem as my next coal ship, however the Dutch are coming with air strikes, and the subs are coming, too. I don’t see how island hugging would fit into the upcoming new meta. Getting Neustra would be nice, but she’s heavily overpriced for a T9 DD. I don’t play tier9 DDs that much.

[ZeuSueZ1337]

Neustrashimy & Yoshino I can't comment on since I don't have them.

 

Salem however; it's a great ship _but_ if you're anywhere near getting Des Moines then save your coal and use it for something different.

Yes, Salem has the "super-heal" but giving up 1,5 km radar range and hydro is - imho - to big a sacrifice. I know that you can use Salem as a captain trainer, but then again there are so many other USN ships that can fulfill that role.

On the other hand; if you haven't played the USN (heavy)cruiser line yet, then Salem would be a fine candidate for a cash-grinder and/or trainer.

And remember that you'll get a 25% rebate coupon in a couple of days, if you haven't seen it already.

[totally_potato]

4 hours ago, Mahaaret said:

Its difficult to decide which to buy with coal.

 

After watching youtube videos of both ships numerous times i still can't decide.

 

I could carry on saving coal for Neustrashimy but not convinced its worth 298k coal.

 

What do you think ?

Ok let's get this out of my brain

 

Salem is a Des moines with more survivability. It is has slight less HP but it gets a superheal. It had a worse radar range tho although everything else is the same about the radr in duration, reload and charges. The consumable selection is weird. You can have a 8.5km radar or a hydro. I personally found the hydro more useful at close range. But once I used the radar after they buffed the duration a while back, radar became an ok pick. Functionally its still a copy pasta DM. I personally took Salem coz its camo is good and superheal on a cruiser sounded nice (don't judge me, I didn't know Mino had a superheal coz I never played it and one shot a mino everytime in my BB).

 

Yoshino is a super Zao. Weakest among its supercruiser counterparts in terms of survivability although you do bounce 16 inch guns with proper angling. Its guns and torps are her selling point. Her guns have good HE in terms of dmg, fire chance and its pins 50mm+ like every other supercruiser, so it can be a very good firestarter. Her AP can be very monstrous against broadsiding cruisers and at closer ranges, broadsiding BBs. She also has 12km/20km shima torps, 8 of them per side. They are very useful in kiting position. Her conceal is well kinda good tbh. So you play this ship as a fire starter, you want to be at around 15km from your enemies, and in late game situations, if your team is winning, you can push in and utilise the AP. You can also hold a flank by yourself, by burning them down. Use the torps only when you are kiting away or are in a brawl. Don't use the torps as your main weapon. Yoshino was fun in my first few games, coz there was always a question running, on whether the BB can dev strike you or not, and the heavy HE salvos and fires you accumulated. She kinda got boring tho after that. I personally find Hindenburg much more enjoyable to play, coz you always have to think about your ammunation, and in today's WoW, her conceal isn't too bad, and if you have the opportunity, you can push in and utilise the very good hydro and AP. But if you like Fires and that kinda crap, then Yoshino is your choice.

 

Nuestra is basically an Ognevoi who did his homework but ate too many homemade burgers in the process. You are essentially a very survivable torpedo boat. You have super heal, very good conceal, and good torps. Her guns are lackluster but she still wins gunfights against some DDs coz her Base HP isn't tooo bad, and she has superheal. Your AP is quite decent against cruisers

 

Now it depends upon you, your playstyle and playstyle preference. 

If you want my recommendation, if you already have DM, then go Yoshino.

Or you can look at some other coal ships, or buy some of the special commanders and consumable modifications. Or just save it up for future ships. 

Its your coal, not mine

[Beastofwar]

3 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

I have the Yoshino, it’s a fun ship and a must have, if you like the Japanese kiting cruiser playstyle. It can turn with double rudder installed. I’m also considering getting the Salem as my next coal ship, however the Dutch are coming with air strikes, and the subs are coming, too. I don’t see how island hugging would fit into the upcoming new meta. Getting Neustra would be nice, but she’s heavily overpriced for a T9 DD. I don’t play tier9 DDs that much.

 

Kiting ??

 

WTF BOOOOM !!

 

Can't agree with you on that one. Yoshino's even explode more often then Azuma's because they are often caught in unfavorable angles launching torpedo's at distant enemies. Azuma does not have torpedoes.

 

The mouthfoaming CC were right about one thing : they do have a citadel over almost all the ships lenght...and it realy does look like a coffin shape*......

 

So you NEVER want to be caught broadside/turning  or even slighlty angling with these.

 

That said they are powerfull ships.....every minute you don't explode the damage keeps stacking and can stack very high.

 

* Click to enlarge if you do not recognise the coffin shape right away.

[Tanaka_15]

3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Kiting ??

 

WTF BOOOOM !!

Strange, it works fine for me. Ship is situational and you will not carry games in it. Salem can carry game. 

And with yoshimo you will do a lot of empty dmg. So idk i would say Salem is a better cruser but it is basicily a DM so. 

[Beastofwar]

6 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Strange, it works fine for me. Ship is situational and you will not carry games in it. Salem can carry game. 

And with yoshimo you will do a lot of empty dmg. So idk i would say Salem is a better cruser but it is basicily a DM so. 

 

What Cruiser can "carry" matches ? They are all support fire type of ships.

 

The most influential of them arguably the DD killer types......but after that - very influential - DD killing deed they get reduced to support fire also.

 

In PvP not many Cruisers ever launch their torpedos ( their true ultra-heavy weapons ) in close combat. Because they are too fragile to fight that close most of the minutes in a match.

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

 

What Cruiser can "carry" matches ? They are all support fire type of ships.

 

The most influential of them arguably the DD killer types......but after that - very influential - DD killing deed they get reduced to support fire also.

IE Petro, DM, Salem, Most Britsh CLs. You can carry a game in cruser but it is hard very hard in CV + 5 bbs meta but it is posible. You will just not do it in long range kiting sniper like Yoshi :) 

[Kiagy]

1 hour ago, ZeuSueZ1337 said:

Neustrashimy & Yoshino I can't comment on since I don't have them.

 

Salem however; it's a great ship _but_ if you're anywhere near getting Des Moines then save your coal and use it for something different.

Yes, Salem has the "super-heal" but giving up 1,5 km radar range and hydro is - imho - to big a sacrifice. I know that you can use Salem as a captain trainer, but then again there are so many other USN ships that can fulfill that role.

On the other hand; if you haven't played the USN (heavy)cruiser line yet, then Salem would be a fine candidate for a cash-grinder and/or trainer.

And remember that you'll get a 25% rebate coupon in a couple of days, if you haven't seen it already.

Yes waiting for the coupon

[Kiagy]

47 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

Ok let's get this out of my brain

 

Salem is a Des moines with more survivability. It is has slight less HP but it gets a superheal. It had a worse radar range tho although everything else is the same about the radr in duration, reload and charges. The consumable selection is weird. You can have a 8.5km radar or a hydro. I personally found the hydro more useful at close range. But once I used the radar after they buffed the duration a while back, radar became an ok pick. Functionally its still a copy pasta DM. I personally took Salem coz its camo is good and superheal on a cruiser sounded nice (don't judge me, I didn't know Mino had a superheal coz I never played it and one shot a mino everytime in my BB).

 

Yoshino is a super Zao. Weakest among its supercruiser counterparts in terms of survivability although you do bounce 16 inch guns with proper angling. Its guns and torps are her selling point. Her guns have good HE in terms of dmg, fire chance and its pins 50mm+ like every other supercruiser, so it can be a very good firestarter. Her AP can be very monstrous against broadsiding cruisers and at closer ranges, broadsiding BBs. She also has 12km/20km shima torps, 8 of them per side. They are very useful in kiting position. Her conceal is well kinda good tbh. So you play this ship as a fire starter, you want to be at around 15km from your enemies, and in late game situations, if your team is winning, you can push in and utilise the AP. You can also hold a flank by yourself, by burning them down. Use the torps only when you are kiting away or are in a brawl. Don't use the torps as your main weapon. Yoshino was fun in my first few games, coz there was always a question running, on whether the BB can dev strike you or not, and the heavy HE salvos and fires you accumulated. She kinda got boring tho after that. I personally find Hindenburg much more enjoyable to play, coz you always have to think about your ammunation, and in today's WoW, her conceal isn't too bad, and if you have the opportunity, you can push in and utilise the very good hydro and AP. But if you like Fires and that kinda crap, then Yoshino is your choice.

 

Nuestra is basically an Ognevoi who did his homework but ate too many homemade burgers in the process. You are essentially a very survivable torpedo boat. You have super heal, very good conceal, and good torps. Her guns are lackluster but she still wins gunfights against some DDs coz her Base HP isn't tooo bad, and she has superheal. Your AP is quite decent against cruisers

 

Now its depends on you, your playstyle and playstyle preference. 

If you want my recommendation, if you already have DM, then go Yoshino.

Or you can look at some other coal ships, or buy some of the special commanders and consumable modifications. Or just save it up for future ships. 

Its your coal, not mine

Thanks for this, Yoshino is back in the running

 

 

[totally_potato]

49 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

What Cruiser can "carry" matches ? They are all support fire type of ships

the multitasking type cruisers that can respond to most battle situations fairly well

American heavy cruisers, German cruisers, British CLs, Riga and Petro

 

These cruisers are the ones that have carry potential as they can respond to most circumstances fairly well. They bring dmg, utility, can fight for caps, can fight at close range and long range fairly effectively, and can kill DDs. French can also carry coz their speed, and DD killing RB can help them win games. Plus they fairly good torps to spam around

[tocqueville8]

I'm saving for the Neustrashimy.

 

I wouldn't get the Yoshino: I have the Azuma and I like her, my WR in her is about my T9 average.

The Azuma has worse armor and no torps, but her heal reloads much more quickly.

 

The Salem is really good for carrying games, my WR in her is 5 points above my T10 average.

 

As long as you don't show broadside to a BB at close range, it's hard to have a truly bad game in the Salem: great survivability against HE spam and low-caliber AP, excellent firepower at mid range, very strong when nose-in, lazy shell arcs that make it easy to fire over islands. Def AA makes you a very tough target in the late game, when the enemy CV might have to focus you down.

 

TL;DR: Salem gudbote

[tocqueville8]

On 6/14/2021 at 11:15 AM, Beastofwar said:

What Cruiser can "carry" matches ? They are all support fire type of ships. 

I had a game in the Salem the other day where I bow-tanked a C. Colombo (15'' guns, and no HE...), then I ambushed a low-hp Vladivostok, then I melted a JB (again 15'' guns) with HE, all the while using Def AA to mitigate CV strikes.

I didn't do anything too smart (well, a noob would've broadsided the Colombo...), in fact I might not even have been top on my team, but what I'm saying is I couldn't have done that in a Venezia or a Saint-Louis, for instance.

 

Kiting cruisers (IJN, French, Italian) have troubles when they need to push against angled enemies, as they have weak bow armor and often unfavorable turret arrangement. They're strong in the early game, which is played more at range and in the open (too many enemies that can crossfire you if you get too close), but weak in the late game imho.

 

Spamming cruisers (Wooster, Colbert, radar Mino) can be strong in the middle game, when the map has cleared a bit and it's easier to find good island cover, but again they have a hard time pushing, securing caps etc., with their flimsy armor and poor frontal firepower.

 

If you need to carry in the late game, you want something with good bow plating (25 mm + icebreaker or 27 mm overall) and good DPM at the front, preferably at least 32mm HE pen to deal with BBs, as crossfiring is less of an issue and it often comes down to bowtanking duels.

 

With a 27 mm bow (and 30 mm belt), 34 mm HE pen, 6 frontal guns with excellent rate of fire, a Salem, all other things being equal, can win a bowtanking duel against most cruisers, and even several BBs in her MM spread.

[Hades_warrior]

My vote goes for Salem.

[Hakssor]

Depends on what you like to do. Kiting, hugging islands, contesting caps. In terms of power tier for tier, Neustra is definitely the best out of these 3 choices. Yoshino is the weakest in my opinion and she is also the least used in a competitive environment.

[Ocsimano18]

5 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Kiting ??

 

WTF BOOOOM !!

 

Can't agree with you on that one. Yoshino's even explode more often then Azuma's because they are often caught in unfavorable angles launching torpedo's at distant enemies. Azuma does not have torpedoes.

 

The mouthfoaming CC were right about one thing : they do have a citadel over almost all the ships lenght...and it realy does look like a coffin shape*......

 

So you NEVER want to be caught broadside/turning  or even slighlty angling with these.

 

That said they are powerfull ships.....every minute you don't explode the damage keeps stacking and can stack very high.

 

* Click to enlarge if you do not recognise the coffin shape right away.

Yes, it's easy to get a citadel when launching torps while detected. You must learn not to do it. It's a basic rule in Yoshino's manual, similarly to other basic rules, like not smoking up in front of a radar/hydro ship with a DD. A lot of potatoes do it which creates the Yoshino image.

 

5 hours ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Strange, it works fine for me. Ship is situational and you will not carry games in it. Salem can carry game. 

And with yoshimo you will do a lot of empty dmg. So idk i would say Salem is a better cruser but it is basicily a DM so. 

Yes, it's hard to carry (especially in ranked) with Yoshino, as it lacks the utilities and concealment for DD hunting, but she's entertaining to play.

[Beastofwar]

12 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

 A lot of potatoes do it which creates the Yoshino image.

 

 

Isn't that actually a good thing ? When (ex-) CC are eating soap again for the well known drama effect, and the sheeps they adress flocking behind them bleet after them in the thousands , such ships might get nerfed......it is a good thing "potatoes" explode after just a few minutes in it. That will never be seen as OOOOPPPEEEEE REEMOOOVVE NUURF NUURFFF

 

Better to have it branded as "meh" or "garbage" ....while these ships reach over 160k damage easily....i you do not explode.

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

8 hours ago, Mahaaret said:

Its difficult to decide which to buy with coal.

 

After watching youtube videos of both ships numerous times i still can't decide.

 

I could carry on saving coal for Neustrashimy but not convinced its worth 298k coal.

 

What do you think ?

Salem. And also. Don't take anything Beast says without a bucket full of salt. 

[Tanaka_15]

6 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Isn't that actually a good thing ? When (ex-) CC are eating soap again for the well known drama effect, and the sheeps they adress flocking behind them bleet after them in the thousands , such ships might get nerfed......it is a good thing "potatoes" explode after just a few minutes in it. That will never be seen as OOOOPPPEEEEE REEMOOOVVE NUURF NUURFFF

 

Better to have it branded as "meh" or "garbage" ....while these ships reach over 160k damage easily....i you do not explode.

 

 

hmmm in what way geting 160 dmg is measurment of good play? or good ship? 

[Verblonde]

8 hours ago, Mahaaret said:

What do you think ?

Depends a lot on the sort of play you like; I have all three, and Neustra is far-and-away the best for me. That's me though, and I really like DDs, and Neustra happens to dovetail very nicely with the sort of ship I tend to do less appallingly badly in.

• Neustra is really all about the zombie heal - it gives her the ability to perform the primary DD mission ('not die') better than most. You're also pretty sneaky for high tiers, so you usually have at least parity in the vision game; combine that with good enough torps and guns, and you have a pretty well-rounded ship. Apart from not dying, she doesn't excel at any one thing, but is good enough at most things, making her an excellent generalist that can usually do okay in most likely MM scenarios. AA (with DefAA) isn't entirely awful, by DD standards, too - but the usual stuff about competent CVs will kill you regardless still stands (although you can effectively 'mission kill' them by making them work for it over time, although that isn't much fun for you).
• My Yoshino essentially lives in Coop; supercruiser with long-range HE, and notorious 20 km torps (which most users end up hitting their own side with). I find mine quite useful to have around for HE missions, but my ability to cruiser isn't nearly sufficient to be of much use in PvP. As a DD driver, I don't usually view these things as much of a threat, for what that's worth.
• Salem can be quite effective in the right hands (potential serious threat, from a DD's perspective); to me, she's kind of Des Moines, only with a better heal, but reduced radar range. She seems to be more useful to have in your collection than Yoshino, if you want to win games, but you need to be able to cruiser (which I can't really). The other thing, of course, is that she's very similar to Des Moines; does one need both? Of course, Salem is cosplay Graf Spee, so I was always going to get her for that reason alone...!

[Kiagy]

Thanks, going to watch a few more videos on Neustra

 

I think i might save for this one, will wait and see