Upcoming Haida removal

[LiveWire___]

I understand that a number of ships, including Haida, are to be removed from game indefinitely.

 

I have looked to check why, and can't seem to find any information.

 

I'm particularly interested as to why Haida is to be removed from sale.

 

Any insights on this?

[K82J]

Popularity and battle performance, same reasoning for all the soon-to-be-removed ships.

 

[Beastofwar]

45 minutes ago, LiveWire___ said:

I understand that a number of ships, including Haida, are to be removed from game indefinitely.

 

I have looked to check why, and can't seem to find any information.

 

I'm particularly interested as to why Haida is to be removed from sale.

 

Any insights on this?

 

Marketing.....they probably will be in gamble boxes of which most drop flags and camo's but not the desired ship for real money. So you need to buy hundreds of boxes.

 

Or ver probable sold as "B" verions ( black camo ) in a coming sales event.

 

And as last reason it opens up room to sell sister ships of them such as HMS Rodney ( clone of Nelson ) or Deutschland or Admiral Scheer ( clone of Graf Spee )

 

None of them except for Asashio ( 20 km DW heavy torpedo, very stealthy torpedo DD ) are actually really special. Nor extremely powerful.

 

It is even so that i rather fly the Weser's He123 then the Ju87C Stuka's that again, are over nerfed out of fear of something. Somehow the AP rocket BF109E of Weser seem to perform better then the BF109T as well, and the torpedo JU87's are blister drawing poor excuses of torpedo bombers.....in contrast with tech tree German torpedo's these crawl to their target, slower then a turtle would. And when that would be compensated in huge torpedo damage...noooo....they have 6 km range.....so you can lauch them 2 minutes earlier on campers or something

 

The one thing that makes the E Lowenhardt stand out is the ship itself......it packs 16 x 150 mm and 10 x 105 mm. But it is verly lightly armoured so you can't fight other ships with it. It can be a nice damage contribution when you want to sail it agressively in Operations.

[Dan7e_DMC]

3 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Marketing.....they probably will be in gamble boxes of which most drop flags and camo's but not the desired ship for real money. So you need to buy hundreds of boxes.

 

Or ver probable sold as "B" verions ( black camo ) in a coming sales event.

 

And as last reason it opens up room to sell sister ships of them such as HMS Rodney ( clone of Nelson ) or Deutschland or Admiral Scheer ( clone of Graf Spee )

 

None of them except for Asashio ( 20 km DW heavy torpedo, very stealthy torpedo DD ) are actually really special. Nor extremely powerful.

 

It is even so that i rather fly the Weser's He123 then the Ju87C Stuka's that again, are over nerfed out of fear of something. Somehow the AP rocket BF109E of Weser seem to perform better then the BF109T as well, and the torpedo JU87's are blister drawing poor excuses of torpedo bombers.....in contrast with tech tree German torpedo's these crawl to their target, slower then a turtle would. And when that would be compensated in huge torpedo damage...noooo....they have 6 km range.....so you can lauch them 2 minutes earlier on campers or something

 

The one thing that makes the E Lowenhardt stand out is the ship itself......it packs 16 x 150 mm and 10 x 105 mm. But it is verly lightly armoured so you can't fight other ships with it. It can be a nice damage contribution when you want to sail it agressively in Operations.

Excuse you.  Haida is an absolute monster for T7.  It is a great DD hunter and has great alpha on its guns.  Plus the real ship is docked a mere 3 hours drive from where I live.

[tsounts]

7 minutes ago, HMCS_Halifax said:

 the real ship is docked a mere 3 hours drive from where I live.

I think that now we know why she gets removed! LOL

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, HMCS_Halifax said:

Plus the real ship is docked a mere 3 hours drive from where I live.

Exhibit A:

 

 

[TunaRoll]

Am 12.6.2021 um 01:20, Beastofwar sagte:

 

Marketing.....they probably will be in gamble boxes of which most drop flags and camo's but not the desired ship for real money. So you need to buy hundreds of boxes.

 

Or ver probable sold as "B" verions ( black camo ) in a coming sales event.

 

And as last reason it opens up room to sell sister ships of them such as HMS Rodney ( clone of Nelson ) or Deutschland or Admiral Scheer ( clone of Graf Spee )

 

None of them except for Asashio ( 20 km DW heavy torpedo, very stealthy torpedo DD ) are actually really special. Nor extremely powerful.

 

It is even so that i rather fly the Weser's He123 then the Ju87C Stuka's that again, are over nerfed out of fear of something. Somehow the AP rocket BF109E of Weser seem to perform better then the BF109T as well, and the torpedo JU87's are blister drawing poor excuses of torpedo bombers.....in contrast with tech tree German torpedo's these crawl to their target, slower then a turtle would. And when that would be compensated in huge torpedo damage...noooo....they have 6 km range.....so you can lauch them 2 minutes earlier on campers or something

 

The one thing that makes the E Lowenhardt stand out is the ship itself......it packs 16 x 150 mm and 10 x 105 mm. But it is verly lightly armoured so you can't fight other ships with it. It can be a nice damage contribution when you want to sail it agressively in Operations.

Yep, thats the sneaky business by WG. Lying around about the "popularity" and "battle performance" (Graf Spee...lol) and then try to sell something new that is almost the same. Producing a problem or specific situation, selling the solution. Greedy as usual...

[geschlittert]

On 6/12/2021 at 1:20 AM, Beastofwar said:

None of them except for Asashio ( 20 km DW heavy torpedo, very stealthy torpedo DD ) are actually really special. Nor extremely powerful.

Lenin, T-61, Haida: all very powerful. 

[Solodorius]

My theory on the suspiciously loudly and long term announced removal of that list of premium ships is that they perform well enough but don't sell well enough anymore, so they announce the removal to create FOMO. That makes them usable as "special sale" ships for limited time offers, further exploiting FOMO. And of course "B" ships, which do the same.

WG is not very subtle when it comes to marketing psychology.

[arttuperkunas]

Haida is stupidly powerful at t7, though IMO not quite op like the t61 potentially is. So despite its power I dont see why they will remove it. It isnt even THAT popular except maybe in ranked.

[Camperdown]

I would have liked to get Haida, but can't collect the gold for it in time. Too bad.

So I will be saving my gold for Cossack now 

[invicta2012]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:20 AM, Beastofwar said:

Somehow the AP rocket BF109E of Weser seem to perform better then the BF109T as well,

Nah, mate. They don't. I like the Weser, it's the more versatile of the two German CVs, but Loewenhardt's rocket planes can knock 50-75% of a Tier VI cruiser's HP off in one pass and the HE bombers are *nasty*, especially to DDs. The splash damage alone will break most of their modules, and landing a hit is (again) 50% of their HP gone. 

[arttuperkunas]

12 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

I would have liked to get Haida, but can't collect the gold for it in time. Too bad.

So I will be saving my gold for Cossack now 

Cossack is good too, in fact very good even in T9 ranked (though I prefer Lightning; a matter of personal taste, as cossack/lightning are sidegrades). That said, Haida is IMO much better at T7 than Cossack is at T8, due to the competition - T7 doesn't have such strong, competitive alternatives like Kidd, Lightning and Akizuki.

[Camperdown]

Just now, arttuperkunas said:

Cossack is good too, in fact very good even in T9 ranked (though I prefer Lightning; a matter of personal taste, as cossack/lightning are sidegrades). That said, Haida is IMO much better at T7 than Cossack is at T8, due to the competition - T7 doesn't have such strong, competitive alternatives like Kidd, Lightning and Akizuki.

That's why I wanted to get Haida, but I won't give real moneh to WeeGreedy 

[arttuperkunas]

Just now, Camperdown said:

That's why I wanted to get Haida, but I won't give real moneh to WeeGreedy 

Understandable.

[Beastofwar]

On 6/12/2021 at 4:56 AM, HMCS_Halifax said:

  Plus the real ship is docked a mere 3 hours drive from where I live.

 

That is why you are biased it performs well in game, which maybe true when it can fight for cap supriority in it's ow tier or lower - but it can face up to Tier IX DD that will make short work of it by having far greater capabilities that come with their high tier.

 

And in Narai you can notice well it is really an 1 trick pony : when flexibility is required in killing all types of targets fast she really can't. She can only kill DD fast. The missing 2nd launcher, and the rediculous 4 km secondary gun that could just aswell be a mock up mount are really felt there.

 

And although being outclassed by superior Tier DD is true for all DD but Tier X ones, Haida suffers more because she has to be used to contest caps. So will fight superior Tier DD and lose. Torpedo boat DD that are undertiered do not suffer nearly as much : as long as they can stay invisible and launch at lumbering BB their tier does not matter at all. Torpedoes sink all tier ships and not being shot at makes tier irrelveant. But torpedo boat DD are powerfull because they have 2-3 launchers....not a single one.

 

So that is why i say it is not very special. The same does not go for T61 that is a much more flexible ship, but there are Tech Tree DD that can perform very similar too. The only DD that can do things no other DD can is Asashio in that list.

 

The only reason i use Haida in Narai sometimes is i am curious if the turd 4 km secondary gun will ever actually damage a bot target. No luck so far.

 

I'm quite sure WG forgot with not replacing BFT and AFT  in the DD skill tree such guns are stuck with unusable low range. But no one cares.

 

 

[geschlittert]

2 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

That is why you are biased it performs well in game, which maybe true when it can fight for cap supriority in it's ow tier or lower - but it can face Tier IX DD that will make short work of it by having far greater capabilities that come with their tier.

oh really? last time i checked the haida actually outspots most T9 DDs. But you wouldnt know that

[arttuperkunas]

3 minutes ago, geschlittert said:

oh really? last time i checked the haida actually outspots most T9 DDs. But you wouldnt know that

Yeeeeeah. Haida is like the only DD in which I don't mind getting uptiered. Of course it can't take a head-on fight against a kitakaze, but I've still dumpstered many a bad Akizuki/Kita player who still haven't figured out how rolling smoke + hydro works.

[SodaBubbles]

5 hours ago, Solodorius said:

My theory on the suspiciously loudly and long term announced removal of that list of premium ships is that they perform well enough but don't sell well enough anymore, so they announce the removal to create FOMO. That makes them usable as "special sale" ships for limited time offers, further exploiting FOMO. And of course "B" ships, which do the same.

WG is not very subtle when it comes to marketing psychology.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. Because while T-61 is common, I hardly see Lenin at all, and Haida is also uncommon in my experience (and I play a lot of T7). I suspect this is a hype move for most of the ships being pulled -- maybe squeeze out a few last sales. 

[Beastofwar]

13 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Yeeeeeah. Haida is like the only DD in which I don't mind getting uptiered. Of course it can't take a head-on fight against a kitakaze, but I've still dumpstered many a bad Akizuki/Kita player who still haven't figured out how rolling smoke + hydro works.

 

Outspotting an enemy is useless once you opened fire : Haida is really not that good that getting the first shot on higer tier DD with higher HP pools and even repairs matters that much. And do not forget in it's cap supriority niche role it will run into (also) very specialized high tier cap suriority gunships aswell....that just eat it alive.

 

The only things that is good for is when you have proper support that actually fire on your spotting target......and in randoms.....good luck with that !

 

 

 

 

[arttuperkunas]

1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Outspotting an enemy is useless once you opened fire : Haida is really not that good that getting the first shot on higer tier DD with higher HP pools and even repairs matters that much. And do not forget in it's cap supriority niche role it will run into (also) very specialized high tier cap suriority gunships aswell....that just eat it alive.

 

The only things that is good for is when you have proper support that actually fire on your spotting target......and in randoms.....good luck with that !

 

 

 

 

I play Haida pretty much exclusively at T7 randoms, and in Bronze ranked; I know how this ship works. It's fine at T9.

 

The one thing you really don't want to run into is Friesland and high tier German DDs due to their superior hydro, but otherwise it's more than capable of pulling its weight.

[Bear__Necessities]

Z-39 is better than Haida anyway. 

[arttuperkunas]

23 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Z-39 is better than Haida anyway. 

Can you explain further? I know that Z-39 is very popular with veteran DD players. What makes it better than Haida? Better torps? Longer range hydro/more HP?

 

I feel a bit sceptical about pulling the trigger because of low DPM, but does e.g. better ballistics make up for it?

[Bear__Necessities]

16 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Can you explain further? I know that Z-39 is very popular with veteran DD players. What makes it better than Haida? Better torps? Longer range hydro/more HP?

 

I feel a bit sceptical about pulling the trigger because of low DPM, but does e.g. better ballistics make up for it?

It's guns hit exponentially harder which more than makes up for the slower reload. It also got a HE buff meaning both the AP and HE are viable options. It's HP when full spec is 22k, that's matches or in some cases betters some T10 DD's. It's torps reload pretty fast and hit hard enough to make stuff cry. It can use concelement mod meaning it matches the likes of Kitakaze at 6.1km. Lastly the hydro is great. 5 km hydro at T7 with the overall combination of traits makes for a one man army DD. Especially when you stick Lutjens in it. 

 

I have replays but won't be able to upload them till next week now. 

[arttuperkunas]

16 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

It's guns hit exponentially harder which more than makes up for the slower reload. It also got a HE buff meaning both the AP and HE are viable options. It's HP when full spec is 22k, that's matches or in some cases betters some T10 DD's. It's torps reload pretty fast and hit hard enough to make stuff cry. It can use concelement mod meaning it matches the likes of Kitakaze at 6.1km. Lastly the hydro is great. 5 km hydro at T7 with the overall combination of traits makes for a one man army DD. Especially when you stick Lutjens in it. 

 

I have replays but won't be able to upload them till next week now. 

Thanks for the analysis; I would also be very happy to see replays if/when you have them.