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Beastofwar

DD losing hydrophones when Submarines enter the game ?

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In one of the official development notes is mentioned that DD will lose their hydrophones.

 

Is that only meant for in a test setting ?

 

Or will they actually handicap DD that depend on it to hunt rival DD in smoke or not be torpedoed while in smoke ?  Will these DD get radar as compensation ? Will they get back hydrophones with changed characteristics ?

 

What gives ?

 

 

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Vor 4 Minuten, Beastofwar sagte:

In one of the official development notes is mentioned that DD will lose their hydrophones.

 

Is that only meant for in a test setting ?

 

Or will they actually handicap DD that depend on it to hunt rival DD in smoke or not be torpedoed while in smoke ?  Will these DD get radar as compensation ? Will they get back hydrophones with changed characteristics ?

 

What gives ?

 

 

You are confusing hydrophones with hydroacoustic search.

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hydrophone =/= hydroacoustic search

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As my mum used to say: "You're not often right, but you're wrong again"

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To be fair, WG's terminology is very confusing in this regard. Particularly as hydroacoustic search basically means using hydrophones :P.

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7 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

To be fair, WG's terminology is very confusing in this regard. Particularly as hydroacoustic search basically means using hydrophones :P.

 

So this  means the hydrophones on DD cannot be used to pick up vibrations at lower depth  then ship launched torpedo's or enemy surface ship propellers and that part stays the same ?

 

Always found it funny you can detect enemy ships in smoke that are not moving ( no rotating/cavitating popellers )

 

And the stuff this is about is actually sonar/asdic removed ? Is that a good thing for DD that actually had that stuff ?

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Just now, Beastofwar said:

 

So this  means the hydrophones on DD cannot be used to pick up vibrations at lower depth  then ship launched torpedo's or enemy surface ship propellers ?

 

Always found it funny you can detect enemy ships in smoke that are not moving ( no rotating/cavitating popellers )

Eh, WG is and has always been firmly in the realm of hand-wavium, so I wouldn't overthink it. In general the idea that you could shoot anything with a naval rifle with even a prayer at accuracy based on hydrophone readings is complete nonsense. Radar guided guns were a thing, hydro - not so much (though I think they might have automated some anti submarine weapons with a connection to hydro, like hedgehog? not sure though)

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In the alpha test of submartines, DD had an hydrophone that helped them localize the position of a submerged submarine (displaying circles on the surface above the submarine) so that the DD can drop depth charges on it.

 

As the stealth mechanic for submarines will change, submerged submarines will now not be always stealthy, a DD close to them will be able to spot them. Thus the hydrophone is no longer necessary, that's why it is removed, but compared to live server, DD will not lose anything.

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Quote
  • A destroyer's Hydrophone will track the movements of a submarine within a radius of 4–5 km around the ship. The sub's approximate location is shown with a special marker. The closer the ship is to the submarine, the more frequently all incoming information will be updated.

 

Like this:

Spoiler

Submarine Battles: Free Submarine Rentals | World of Warships

 

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15 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Who would you call underwater anyway? :cap_wander:

 

Neptune...to tell him to expect newcomers to his realm....

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3 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

This one came directly from the WG Confusion department.

 

I believe the correct terminology (in this Orwellian nightmare of a game) is The Ministry of Clarity.

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3 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

This one came directly from the WG Confusion department. I fell for it too some time ago.

"radio positioning finding, known as rpf, will not get introduced into the game. thx to u all for ur feedback! we value!"....."we gonna add a new skill called radio location, shorted rl (hehe.... then comes the-to-beware-of-standard-line) -->> This will make the gameplay more interesting and diverse <<--".

 

Ha. guess we're all falling for it on and on yet lol :Smile_facepalm::Smile_sad:

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1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

In one of the official development notes is mentioned that DD will lose their hydrophones.

 

Is that only meant for in a test setting ?

 

Or will they actually handicap DD that depend on it to hunt rival DD in smoke or not be torpedoed while in smoke ?  Will these DD get radar as compensation ? Will they get back hydrophones with changed characteristics ?

 

What gives ?

Hydrophone was a passive DD and CL ability in the sub tests that showed you Location of the enemy sub Within certain distance similar to how RDF works… That is beeing removed

 

Hydroacustic search that is a consumable stats the same and is not touched, it remains to be seen if anything about sub detection via hydroacustic changes or not but they will likely be treated like any other ship class in that regard

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I was also confused by this; when I heard MrConway on that Waterline video a few weeks back, I more or less blew a switch and had a proper Charlton Heston moment: "The only way WG will get my hydro is when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers...!!!"

 

I had already written an angry post about it and was about to press the "Submit/Make a Fool of Myself" button, when sanity reasserted itself and I went back and listened through the Waterline episode again. And no, Wargaming is not about to remove the hydroacoustic search consumable from the game, they are merely planning to scrap the proposed special hydrophone function that was added to destroyers and some cruisers during the last submarine test phase. Apparently there will be so many other ways of detecting those poor little submarines, that the hydrophone was considered to be too much.

 

While that last train of thought evokes unpleasant references to CV invulnerabilities and immunities, it would be reasonable to expect hydro to provide at least some form of advantage as an anti-submarine mechanic. Even if Wargaming is contemplating an artificial popularity boost for submarines* (as the one currently in effect for carriers), making hydro useless against submarines might be taking it a step too far. Fighting submarines was what sonar was created for, after all - detection of smoked-up ships and incoming torpedoes would have come in as a distant second.

 

 

* Please note that I have no idea if any such popularity boost is even considered; I have neither read nor heard anything to this effect. I guess I am just prone to the odd burst of cynicism, now and then.

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17 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I was also confused by this; when I heard MrConway on that Waterline video a few weeks back, I more or less blew a switch and had a proper Charlton Heston moment: "The only way WG will get my hydro is when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers...!!!"

 

I had already written an angry post about it and was about to press the "Submit/Make a Fool of Myself" button, when sanity reasserted itself and I went back and listened through the Waterline episode again. And no, Wargaming is not about to remove the hydroacoustic search consumable from the game, they are merely planning to scrap the proposed special hydrophone function that was added to destroyers and some cruisers during the last submarine test phase. Apparently there will be so many other ways of detecting those poor little submarines, that the hydrophone was considered to be too much.

 

While that last train of thought evokes unpleasant references to CV invulnerabilities and immunities, it would be reasonable to expect hydro to provide at least some form of advantage as an anti-submarine mechanic. Even if Wargaming is contemplating an artificial popularity boost for submarines* (as the one currently in effect for carriers), making hydro useless against submarines might be taking it a step too far. Fighting submarines was what sonar was created for, after all - detection of smoked-up ships and incoming torpedoes would have come in as a distant second.

 

 

* Please note that I have no idea if any such popularity boost is even considered; I have neither read nor heard anything to this effect. I guess I am just prone to the odd burst of cynicism, now and then.

 

There are other Charlton Heston lines you can appropriate for relevant discussions.

 

Charlton Heston: When may we hope to get the game fixed?

WG: You may hope at any time.

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Hydrophone

<>

Hydroacoustic Search

 

I really don't know where this confusion comes from - read better.

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Vor 1 Minute, lup3s sagte:

Hydrophone

<>

Hydroacoustic Search

That looks sensible.

Hydrophone: PASSIVE acoustic detection equipment, relies in reality on sounds generated by bodies moving through water, be it cavitation, water vortices generated around protuberances on hulls, creakings or friction generated sounds from mechanics as the gears are (or, on modern subs: angry shouting by the crew, dropping something on the floor... Read a bit of those technothrillers penned by Tom Clancy or Patrick Robinson to get the idea). You would normally need at least 2 bearings to triangulate a location of a fixed target and at least 3 bearings to get an estimate of position and speed of any moving target.

 

Hydroacoustic search: ACTIVE, as in searching, sonar equipment. That is actually quite well implemented in game, as, if you detect a ship, the target gets a notification of being detected too. Active sonar that generates detection pings indeed broadcasts your location widely around.

 

Regards, Nightowl

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1 hour ago, Northern_Nightowl said:

That looks sensible.

Hydrophone: PASSIVE acoustic detection equipment, relies in reality on sounds generated by bodies moving through water, be it cavitation, water vortices generated around protuberances on hulls, creakings or friction generated sounds from mechanics as the gears are (or, on modern subs: angry shouting by the crew, dropping something on the floor... Read a bit of those technothrillers penned by Tom Clancy or Patrick Robinson to get the idea). You would normally need at least 2 bearings to triangulate a location of a fixed target and at least 3 bearings to get an estimate of position and speed of any moving target.

 

Hydroacoustic search: ACTIVE, as in searching, sonar equipment. That is actually quite well implemented in game, as, if you detect a ship, the target gets a notification of being detected too. Active sonar that generates detection pings indeed broadcasts your location widely around.

 

Regards, Nightowl

 

Both are actually needed in RL. I must assume, then, that the subs will be 'mostly harmless' if one of the most important ASW countermeasures is removed.

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