Cruiser the forgotten gameplay

[pompeyrk]

They cried the dd were being bombed cv were the work of the devil resulting in over powered destroyers triple nerfed cv weaponry,

Its almost impossible to kill a dd from the air now but its cruisers i want to moan about seems to me cruisers work fine against each other against battleships and cv but destroyers they're weak couple of examples

 

me in a Puerto Rico  Vs  Marceau from 18km him weaving towards me i put at least 6 12" HE shells into him in two salvos shoot reload shoot before he was point blank on me and torpedoed me he wasn't even half dead .

 

me in a t8 Wichita Vs t10 daring straightforward gun fight with in 10km  daring won  with 4"AP against my 6" HE 

 

i fought against the new Elbing the other day i think i was in Plymouth i was mincemeat .

 

half of these cruisers are designed  to hunt and kill destroyers but this type of gameplay has been ignored when balancing destroyers to withstand bb salvos and aerial attacks i feel cruisers should be their weakness and the ship type they fear .

 

when you click battle it generally will say something like 6carrier 46battleship 2cruiser 22destroyer  in your range,

Id say its the least played ship type which is a shame because probably the best balanced throughout the tiers of their own type,

I am no expert  but i have played since day one all ship types and tiers its just something i think is not working right am interested to know what others think .

 

[Nibenay78]

I think you should post a replay or two. I suspect there may be something that may be improved from your side...

[ColonelPete]

Cruisers still do fine vs DD, but not all cruisers play the same or can do the same thing.

 

US CA are not the best at dealing with DD at longer range since their shells are so slow, but letting a DD get from 18km to point blank range is not a problem of the cruiser.

 

And no cruisers are not the least played ship class. They are the second most played class for years.

Spoiler

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210529/eu_week/average_class_u.html

 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 55 Minuten, pompeyrk sagte:

me in a Puerto Rico  ...

... and this is where I stopped to read.

[Beastofwar]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Cruisers still do fine vs DD, but not all cruisers play the same or can do the same thing.

 

US CA are not the best at dealing with DD at longer range since their shells are so slow, but letting a DD get from 18km to point blank range is not a problem of the cruiser.

 

And no cruisers are not the least played ship class. They are the second most played class for years.

  Hide contents

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210529/eu_week/average_class_u.html

 

 

In ranked there are definitely more BB and DD then there are Cruisers.

 

And indeed it is painfully visible that non radar Cruisers and large Cruisers suffer from vulnerability to DD just as BB are vulnerable to DD. Having hydro barely changes that for high tier DD with 8+ km range weapons. No need to come closer so without radar ability DD will stay invisible when they can resist milling their guns or have their AA give them away.

 

Also in ranked Cruisers are actually prioritized if they are there. BB's dont want to be fried by them and DD not radared. And CV not shot at with DFAA they often pack.

 

Cruisers surpress DD and CV at cap locations and should therefore be killed quickly. In ranked most players understand that. Surviving enemy BB pose no threat to surviving DD so they are simply not that important to kill 1st. And thus far more survivable then being in a Cruiser.

 

As for "too tough" DD after continuous CV nerfing : for fast kills let an allied DD make contact with an enemy DD. That allied DD will spot for you and also pre-damage that enemy DD. With outside spotting you can line up very accurate strikes that kill perfectly well. This will also be true after the next nerf which will require a longer line up. In fact ( non radar ) support Cruisers often do the exact same thing...let the allied DD draw fire, and then kill the enemy DD....or support Cruisers becoming active behind it.

 

Now many DD are not happy with that tactic as they want you to spot for them.....but it is them causing the CV nerfing. When you have cake, you must eat it.

 

 

 

 

[inkedsoulz]

So CV nerfs are DDs fault?? 

 

Yikes.

[xe_N_on]

Vor 5 Stunden, pompeyrk sagte:

 

DDs are so overpowered that you have a win rate of 31,71% in your most played DD (Daring, 123 battles), an average damage of less than 21 000 and an kill-do-death ratio of 0,3 resulting in a PR of 186.

 

But looking at your other stats it's clearly a case of "learn 2 play"

[GarrusBrutus]

Reading the first post gave me a headache. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I agree.

 

Bad rant, doesnt make any sense...

[Bainsmit_steel]

I do agree that in current meta CAs are on the weaker side...also I do also think that DDs are now way overpowered.

 

Best AA Haland

One of the best guns Smalland

Best tanking ability French DDs...

 

 

So something relay is not right...

 

Same skilled Cruiser or BB do not have much chance against dd even if CA has radar...apart maybe Minotaur...but mino is more of an dd then ca :)...

 

Also with current change to CV they will focus even more on damage farming and not on spotting....

[ColonelPete]

30 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

Best tanking ability French DDs...

Are you sure about that?

Spoiler

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210522/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

[totally_potato]

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Are you sure about that?

  Reveal hidden contents

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210522/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

[edited]stats, we are talking about game performance

They have pretty good HP, French saturation and they are fasters than some torps.

Ofc they are tanky

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, totally_potato said:

[edited]stats, we are talking about game performance

They have pretty good HP, French saturation and they are fasters than some torps.

Ofc they are tanky

That is game performance...

Being tanky is different to having the best tanking ability.

[bloodynicknames]

8 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

me in a Puerto Rico  Vs  Marceau from 18km

I lol'ed

[_JustDodge]

All I read is that a Marcau yolo torped somebody, which is something a Kleber/Marcau can do to basically any ship driving solo.
 

[totally_potato]

8 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

They cried the dd were being bombed cv were the work of the devil resulting in over powered destroyers triple nerfed cv weaponry,

Its almost impossible to kill a dd from the air now but its cruisers i want to moan about seems to me cruisers work fine against each other against battleships and cv but destroyers they're weak couple of examples

See this the problem. They rant about CVs being OP so WG nerfs the rockets, and now you require some skill to aim them. And now players start crying on the forums coz they don't want skill when they were the ones saying CVs OP. 

Have cruisers fallen off? In overall effectiveness? Yes. In DD killing? Nope

8 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

me in a Puerto Rico  Vs  Marceau from 18km him weaving towards me i put at least 6 12" HE shells into him in two salvos shoot reload shoot before he was point blank on me and torpedoed me he wasn't even half dead .

That's on you. Even the average potato would have killed him.

 

8 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

me in a t8 Wichita Vs t10 daring straightforward gun fight with in 10km  daring won  with 4"AP against my 6" HE 

I have no idea what circumstances you were in. Straight on gunfight, if you have proper aim, you should have won. So tell me what circumstance you were in

 

8 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

i fought against the new Elbing the other day i think i was in Plymouth i was mincemeat .

That's good actually. This is what this new line was supposed to do, and him doing it means, atleast the T10 works.

 

8 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

half of these cruisers are designed  to hunt and kill destroyers but this type of gameplay has been ignored when balancing destroyers to withstand bb salvos and aerial attacks i feel cruisers should be their weakness and the ship type they fear .

They still get dumpstered if a cruiser catches them with hydro/radar. And many cruisers have introduced that just DD hunt. Ochakov for eg. so I don't get the whole rant. At lower tiers, DD HP is so damn less, that3-5 salvos are required to blow that DD up. At extreme noob tiers, yes DDs are very small, so its a walk in the park for them, but that's all.

8 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

when you click battle it generally will say something like 6carrier 46battleship 2cruiser 22destroyer  in your range,

Id say its the least played ship type which is a shame because probably the best balanced throughout the tiers of their own type,

I am no expert  but i have played since day one all ship types and tiers its just something i think is not working right am interested to know what others think .

Cruisers bring the most Utility and the most versatile firepower.

 

[totally_potato]

10 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That is game performance...

Being tanky is different to having the best tanking ability.

French saturation and HP already is the best tanking ability a DD can get. Couple that with torpedo speed. 

[Ronchabale]

9 hours ago, pompeyrk said:

 

me in a Puerto Rico  Vs  Marceau from 18km him weaving towards me i put at least 6 12" HE shells into him in two salvos shoot reload shoot before he was point blank on me and torpedoed me he wasn't even half dead .

 

Sounds to me like an aiming issue ? bad eyesight ? bad moves by you, lagg with your internet connection or your gaming rig is rubbish.

 

[ColonelPete]

40 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

French saturation and HP already is the best tanking ability a DD can get. Couple that with torpedo speed. 

He was talking about tanking in general, not tanking among DD.

Even in that case the FR DD get beat by some RU DD.

Spoiler

 

[totally_potato]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

He was talking about tanking in general, not tanking among DD.

Even in that case the FR DD get beat by some RU DD.

  Hide contents

 

Wtf is stats gonna tell me about the tanking aspect of a ship? On how shitty, or less shitty, ppl play that ship?

And while Khaba has armor, there are ways to counter it. You can't counter baked in special saturation mechanics

So no, RU DDs don't beat FR DDs in tanking. He is completely right about the tanking aspect of FR DDs

[Prophecy82]

8 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

In ranked there are definitely more BB and DD then there are Cruisers.

 

I guess you are speaking about Silver? 

I agree, but T9 Meta was always BB and DD. 

Except Alaska and Krohn most T9 CA/CL are a bit UP compared to their BB/DD counterparts... actually some of them feel like a worse T8 with a heal. 

For me that is a specialty of T9. 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, totally_potato said:

Wtf is stats gonna tell me about the tanking aspect of a ship? On how shitty, or less shitty, ppl play that ship?

And while Khaba has armor, there are ways to counter it. You can't counter baked in special saturation mechanics

So no, RU DDs don't beat FR DDs in tanking. He is completely right about the tanking aspect of FR DDs

Facts > Feelings™

[Prophecy82]

10 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

He was talking about tanking in general, not tanking among DD.

Even in that case the FR DD get beat by some RU DD.

 

Yea, and lets not forget that half of them are speshul players which play Khaba/Tashkent with smoke instead of heal. 

If smoke for the RU maintree wouldnt exist the tanking capability would be even higher statistics-wise.

[Beastofwar]

He is right about high tier DD being much harder to kill then mid tier DD though. And not only by CV. But that is part of the game, logical, and not something to complain about.

 

In Tier X CV it is obvious rocket planes shoot around bow facing DD with an annoying V pattern ( nerf ) which forces you to attack them as much broadside as you can or be largely ineffective. But even then they can take a lot of punishment, which leads to the preference of attacking only enemy DD when they are fighting allied DD's : they are outsource spotted, pre-damaged and preoccupied fighting a DD with all ther concentration...so lining up broadside is easy. * And coming up nerf with next patch proof as a longer line up will not change it's effectiveness.

 

This ranked starting at tier VI i was surprised how squishy tier VI DD were compared to tier X ones. So when you get used to that you may experience adapting problems at higher tiers.

 

* Playing DD myself in know being interupted in a thrilling DD vs DD duel by planes rocketting either me or the other DD is not fun. But that is what you get crying nerf as any player will adapt to what still does work well. And besides that opening fire in a cap draws fire from everone and their mother anyways. I do not feel guilty exploding DD in caps...just one of the many shooting at that guy, and a merely matter of who gets the kill.

[Ubertron_X]

The gameplay for cruisers may be a little frustrating at times but really follows a simple formula: If # of potential enemies > 1 don't expose yourself.

 

A typical cruiser should not have any trouble dealing with a single enemy DD (which may or may not include killing it, chasing the DD off the objective may already be enough). Likewise many cruisers - if played correctly - pose a serious threat for single BBs, especially at higher tiers.

 

The trick in cruisers is to conserve HP and not to die early. Late game the typically high cruiser DPM can easily start to dominate.