AP shooting DD...is here something i am missing ?

[Beastofwar]

After killing lots of enemy DD relatively easy with DD's like Ostergotland and Chung Mu i ran into a quite unremarkbale looking tech tree Kitakaze that to my surprise fired white shells at me ( AP ) and reduced me to 0 in just 2 salvo's. 

 

I turned from "hah, that idiot is using the wrong ammo, i dont have to disengage" to "WTF just just happend  ???"

 

I know AP can fuse to explode inside DD at certain angles instead of overpenetrating it,  and Kitakaze is quite dangerous with 8 rapid firing guns, outgunning my Ostergotland with almost twice the firepower. But i think there was more to it, like him possibly taking the improved +7,5 % damage AP shell skill  ?  Could that cause non-AP specialized ( non new German ) DD to do much more damage then they would firing  HE ?

 

He really meant to kill me with AP wich is to me still an uncommon tactic in DD as i dislike overpenetrations that do less damage then HE penetrations.  Or did he pick up a skill or two in new German DD that are still locked to me ? I do have Fenyang that up to now did not really impress me with AP, and LWM review did mention the usable angles were quite hard to make work and could easily kill you instead. Maybe i believed it to extend that it became self fulfilling profecy ?

 

When i click the +7,5 % damage AP shell skill the Kitakaze rises to 1828 damage while it does 1200 HE damage. Is it correct that full penetrations both AP and HE cause 33 % of listed damage ? So AP  can easily beat HE when you can get it to penetrate and not overpenetrate ?

 

 

Doing the same to ostergotland even increaes damage to 2311

 

 

[ColonelPete]

When you show broadside, DD on DD AP can be deadly.

As soon as you enter ricochet angles, the AP will fail

[GulvkluderGuld]

Kitakaze has substantially greater AP dpm than HE dpm.  Its not the 7,5% AP skill.

 

If you angle the damage drops of in a major way. Only RN DDs can get away with shooting exclusively AP. (and Z-31 because it's actually great, if only it reloaded faster)

[Beastofwar]

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

When you show broadside, DD on DD AP can be deadly.

As soon as you enter ricochet angles, the AP will fail

 

So he was either a stone cold professional with much higher skill then anything i encountered in 3 ranked seasons......or a wild gambler that got a winning bet ?

 

Or did the Kitakaze have anything to do with it too, such as having trust in so much shells being fired you can afford to be on the angle limit of most of them bouncing but the ones going in do major damage ?

 

Funny to be confronted with ever deeper layers of skill when you think you are doing quite well......

 

 

[ColonelPete]

At short range the Kita shells have a very short flight time as they are extremly fast, which makes dodging or angling at the last minute difficult.

Two salvos of her could do over 14k damage. He was indeed very lucky or very good.

[Beastofwar]

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

At short range the Kita shells have a very short flight time as they are extremly fast, which makes dodging or angling at the last minute difficult.

Two salvos of her could do over 14k damage. He was indeed very lucky or very good.

 

I got to thouroughly test that in training room as i must master this too.....and +7,5 % AP damage does not seem to be a thoughtless skippable skill afterall.   

 

thnx for the answers.

[bloodynicknames]

13 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

So he was either a stone cold professional with much higher skill then anything i encountered in 3 ranked seasons......

 

 

 

 

thats like saying you found the nicest piece of s*it in a big pile of s*it

[Nibenay78]

46 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

So he was either a stone cold professional with much higher skill then anything i encountered in 3 ranked seasons......or a wild gambler that got a winning bet ?

 

Or did the Kitakaze have anything to do with it too, such as having trust in so much shells being fired you can afford to be on the angle limit of most of them bouncing but the ones going in do major damage ?

 

Funny to be confronted with ever deeper layers of skill when you think you are doing quite well......

 

 

Firing DD AP into other DDs with broadside slaughters them. Just like any other Class firing AP at same class...

 

Usually its max 1-2 salvos though, unless the other DD just drives straight with full broadside. *Cough*

But lucky them had anti-DD measures against you...

[Nov_A]

I hope your ranked WR is at least safe.

[Capra76]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

is here something i am missing ?

A basic understanding of the game?

[Karasu_Browarszky]

It has to be an angle thing when a DD is broadsiding, or rather I suspect broadsiding at an oblique angle to you (or vice versa). Under the right (or wrong) conditions you can lose like 10k+ HPs in a second.

[Cirno9999]

when i played aegis in the farragut ap literally devastated the kumas and higher ones , had like 20 - 40 cits xD, yeah some can be quite deadly with it

[tocqueville8]

2 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

and +7,5 % AP damage does not seem to be a thoughtless skippable skill afterall.   

Extra AP damage + extra fire chance, together, do seem like a viable alternative to a 4 point skill like AFT, especially in Ranked.

[doerhoff_damian]

Kitakaze causes 400 Points of Damage per Shell when firing He and 566 Points of Damage per Shell when firing AP.

And Since these Shells are so small they will not Overpen DDs

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 1 Stunde, doerhoff_damian sagte:

Kitakaze causes 400 Points of Damage per Shell when firing He and 566 Points of Damage per Shell when firing AP.

And Since these Shells are so small they will not Overpen DDs

Oh, you can get overpens on other DDs easily. Just try it yourself in the training room.

But if you shoot at the widest part of the hull of a ship (usually fromt the bridge to the smoke stacks) you'll avoid overpens.

Vor 6 Stunden, Beastofwar sagte:

I got to thouroughly test that in training room as i must master this too.....and +7,5 % AP damage does not seem to be a thoughtless skippable skill afterall.

The skill is not bad. However, as with many other skills you have to give up something else for it and you have to ask yourself if the 7.5% are worth it. Keep in mind if damage saturation kicks in, the absolute difference to stock AP becomes smaller.

[xe_N_on]

I don't know, but I switch HE/AP in DD quite often for targets that are broadside. However, against enemy DDs it is some sort of gamble, because hitting the superstructure you can get overpen with AP even with low caliber guns.

 

So it is better to use HE at ranges where you can't reliable hit the hull.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 6 Stunden, Karasu_Hidesuke sagte:

It has to be an angle thing

Definitely. I killed a Kita in a 1 on 1 gun duel with Asashio, me firing HE and the opponent stubbornly firing AP at my nicely angled boat. I did not take any damage of note in the process.

[Hugh_Ruka]

Yes, I used AP on Kita to great effect in the previous Ranked season. Normally a DD will show you broadside since 99% it's an HE exchange. Once he does that you can hunk him for 3-4k salvos until he realizes. Same thing for the Z-46 and Z-52 f.e.

 

However on some DDs you have to shoot when they are still a bit angled or you'll only overpen (Kagero hulls f.e.).

[Miscommunication_dept]

It's my primary ammo in the ZF-6.

 

Close to 450,000 dpm with reload booster reduces a DD to zero in seconds.

With the skill you mention and the module it's 540,000 dpm for 15s.

 

Kita doesn't have the dpm or the ricochet angles  but it has a 17mm arming threshold so will arm even on the most broadside DD.

[SodaBubbles]

6 hours ago, Cirno9999 said:

when i played aegis in the farragut ap literally devastated the kumas and higher ones , had like 20 - 40 cits xD, yeah some can be quite deadly with it

Ha. In the old days I used to get 40 cits in Okhotnik on that map....

[totally_potato]

8 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

After killing lots of enemy DD relatively easy with DD's like Ostergotland and Chung Mu i ran into a quite unremarkbale looking tech tree Kitakaze that to my surprise fired white shells at me ( AP ) and reduced me to 0 in just 2 salvo's. 

 

I turned from "hah, that idiot is using the wrong ammo, i dont have to disengage" to "WTF just just happend  ???"

 

I know AP can fuse to explode inside DD at certain angles instead of overpenetrating it,  and Kitakaze is quite dangerous with 8 rapid firing guns, outgunning my Ostergotland with almost twice the firepower. But i think there was more to it, like him possibly taking the improved +7,5 % damage AP shell skill  ?  Could that cause non-AP specialized ( non new German ) DD to do much more damage then they would firing  HE ?

 

He really meant to kill me with AP wich is to me still an uncommon tactic in DD as i dislike overpenetrations that do less damage then HE penetrations.  Or did he pick up a skill or two in new German DD that are still locked to me ? I do have Fenyang that up to now did not really impress me with AP, and LWM review did mention the usable angles were quite hard to make work and could easily kill you instead. Maybe i believed it to extend that it became self fulfilling profecy ?

 

When i click the +7,5 % damage AP shell skill the Kitakaze rises to 1828 damage while it does 1200 HE damage. Is it correct that full penetrations both AP and HE cause 33 % of listed damage ? So AP  can easily beat HE when you can get it to penetrate and not overpenetrate ?

 

 

Doing the same to ostergotland even increaes damage to 2311

 

 

AP has always been dangerous on broadside DDs

German DDs proved that (the OG one)

I outgunned a full HP Kitakaze with like 2/3rd HP Z-46. Kitakaze kept giving me broadside, my AP did like 4k to 5k volleys a pop, and in like 5 salvos, I killed him, while Kitakaze got me down to 1/3rd of my HP. Did a bit of spotting and torp boating for the rest of the game.

I wanted to show this feat on the forums, but some stupid VLC crap didn't let me open the replay. Luckily, there is a very underrated youtuber who did the same.

 

SO you see, u should use AP

Don't be sheep

[totally_potato]

8 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

and +7,5 % AP damage does not seem to be a thoughtless skippable skill afterall.   

Never was

Its a wonderful skill for the German and UK lines

Its not a bad skill on French, Russian lines as well but there are other skills you want

 

This is my German DD build

 

Its an amazing build. I could have gone gun range, but tbh 12.05 isn't too bad and I learned to work around that range. I don't need fire skill since two flags do it for me. I don't need the consumable skills since the flag does it for me. You can see the AP DPM. It even melts broadside BBs. I even use AP on marceau, coz it has some good pin and DPM to melt. 

I can even post my Daring build if you so wish, to show how amazing this skill is for these two particular lines.

[Camperdown]

Wut?

 

AP doing more damage to a thin skin target like a DD?

 

O boy. I already hated the stupid pen mechanics but this is hilariously stupid. Why isn't the guy that dreams this up not quietly escorted out of Lesta offices? Sorry Piotr, we all like the Vodka here, but now it has really eaten away your brain.

 

HE typically has 3-4 times the explosive filler than AP. AP in real life takes a significant drop in explosive effect for improved penetration. But this is oc only relevant for protected areas, not for thin skin targets like a DD. Against DD HE should outperform AP by quite a margin if WoWs tries to emulate real world in any way.

 

Really, any kind of historical knowledge or understanding of real life physics is a big disadvantage in this silly game. Ships look historical, but behave like flying pigs. 

[Miscommunication_dept]

24 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

Wut?

 

AP doing more damage to a thin skin target like a DD?

 

O boy. I already hated the stupid pen mechanics but this is hilariously stupid. Why isn't the guy that dreams this up not quietly escorted out of Lesta offices? Sorry Piotr, we all like the Vodka here, but now it has really eaten away your brain.

 

HE typically has 3-4 times the explosive filler than AP. AP in real life takes a significant drop in explosive effect for improved penetration. But this is oc only relevant for protected areas, not for thin skin targets like a DD. Against DD HE should outperform AP by quite a margin if WoWs tries to emulate real world in any way.

 

Really, any kind of historical knowledge or understanding of real life physics is a big disadvantage in this silly game. Ships look historical, but behave like flying pigs. 

They don't.

 

[KillStealBoss]

Also Kita has low caliber shells meaning they'll pen not overpen. Maybe he was running that skill but even without it the AP is scary. Same with Daring against other DDs or Vampire II. ZF-6 also is using a lot of AP since he has better pen angles and the HE is luckluster...