How to deal dmg to bbs as mid tier cruiser with he?

[ReverendFlashback]

I've been playing Kotovsky the last days and it's kinda frustrating.

Damage against other cruisers and destroyers is as expected. But when it comes to fighting battleships I don't deal any damage.

Russian ones are especially bad to shoot at.

 

I know I've got to aim for the super structure and set them on fire but it just doesn't work.

Whenever I get finally a fire started they put it out immediatley. (Not just russian bbs but all of them) 

Which is well known as a noob bb move works perfectly since they recharge their dmg control easily till the next fire.

IF there even is a next one.

 

Probably won't be my last mid tier cruiser to struggle with this.

So what to do?

Is a 10 point captain for IFHE required to deal any damage? 

 

Really hope the T6 with 12% fire chance makes it better :/

[KillStealBoss]

The problem isn't playing Kotovsky which is T5. But Shchors or Helena.

Even with ifhe your can't pen the bow and stern of T8-9 BBs with T7 cruiser. In the old times I managed once to do in T9 MM 220k dmg on my Boise (a Helena with heal but worse range and reload) but more if I manage 80k in T9 MM that's great.

 

Belfast isn't that OP with damage farming on BBs as in the past, I remember I could melt Alsace (32mm almost everywhere) in 2-3 min max. Now 5 min won't be enough unless he shows broadside, so you have to change ammo into AP.

 

So now as you are on T5 you won't have a problem is you have ifhe. On T6 you'll see T8s but it's still playable. On T7.... Oh man. The ifhe goes back to effectively damage BBs on T8+. 

As far as Kotovsky I have no idea how it's AP is behaving cause didn't play it ever (I had Moskva already)

[ColonelPete]

• BB are not for you to fight, that is not your job, they are targets of opportunity, when there is nothing else to shoot
• focus on DD, when they are spotted, otherwise fight other cruisers
• when fighting BB, make sure you have cover and can shoot them unspotted, that way you can use all guns with a reduced risk and then your repeated salvos should show some effect
• select BB that show broadside to you and have a large superstructure, depending on BB and range, you can even use AP vs the upper Belt/Superstructure

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

BB are not for you to fight, that is not your job, they are targets of opportunity, when there is nothing else to shoot

so after 2 dds die, you can go back to port. 5 left bbs + CV are not your enemy. Pray that last remining CA of enemy is on your side of map.

 

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

focus on DD, when they are spotted, otherwise fight other cruisers

What crusers? There is 1 or 2 each game.

 

In rest you are right. 

the problem is that BBs are main enemy of each class, cos most ships you meet in game are bbs :)

 

 

[ColonelPete]

9 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

so after 2 dds die, you can go back to port. 5 left bbs + CV are not your enemy. Pray that last remining CA of enemy is on your side of map.

Please. Read slowly.

14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• BB are not for you to fight, that is not your job, they.are.targets.of.opportunity,when.there.is nothing.else.to.shoot

 

[ReverendFlashback]

17 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• BB are not for you to fight, that is not your job, they are targets of opportunity, when there is nothing else to shoot
• focus on DD, when they are spotted, otherwise fight other cruisers
• when fighting BB, make sure you have cover and can shoot them unspotted, that way you can use all guns with a reduced risk and then your repeated salvos should show some effect
• select BB that show broadside to you and have a large superstructure, depending on BB and range, you can even use AP vs the upper Belt/Superstructure

 

Sorry but this isn't helpfull.

I know all of this.

 

Tanaka_15 is right with what he's saying.

21 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

The problem isn't playing Kotovsky which is T5. But Shchors or Helena.

Even with ifhe your can't pen their bow and stern of T8-9 BBs with T7 cruiser. In the old times I managed once to do in T9 MM 220k dmg on my Boise (a Helena with heal but worse range and reload) but more if I manage 80k in T9 MM that's great.

 

Belfast isn't that OP with damage farming on BBs as in the past, I remember I could melt Alsace (32mm almost everywhere) in 2-3 min max. Now 5 min won't be enough unless he shows broadside, so you have to change ammo into AP.

 

So now as you are on T5 you won't have a problem is you have ifhe. On T6 you'll see T8s but it's still playable. On T7.... Oh man. The ifhe goes back to effectively damage BBs on T8+. 

As far as Kotovsky I have no idea how it's AP is behaving cause didn't play it ever (I had Moskva already)

 

So it will get even worse?

That sucks...

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, ReverendFlashback said:

 

Sorry but this isn't helpfull.

I know all of this.

Really?

You are doing this:

30 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• when fighting BB, make sure you have cover and can shoot them unspotted, that way you can use all guns with a reduced risk and then your repeated salvos should show some effect
• select BB that show broadside to you and have a large superstructure, depending on BB and range, you can even use AP vs the upper Belt/Superstructure

And have trouble with damage?

[Tanaka_15]

15 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

they.are.targets.of.opportunity,when.there.is nothing.else.to.shoot

Yech but you are acting, like the sytuation, when your only enemy is a BB was rare. TBH in my expirience in Wows, the sytuation when my enemy is not a BB is rare. So yeach, i know i shuld fight crusers and and dds in cruser, but i have to fight bbs and sometimes other ships. So idk what the answer is. The best option is to use cruseres who are good against bbs. 

[KillStealBoss]

6 minutes ago, ReverendFlashback said:

 

 

So it will get even worse?

That sucks...

Well playing Lazo with ifhe against T8-9 BB you get like 1-2 shell pen (superstructure) and the rest shatter. Sad. 

[DFens_666]

55 minutes ago, ReverendFlashback said:

Russian ones are especially bad to shoot at.

 

Basicly ignore russian BBs when being in a Cruiser. You can only lose. Their armor prevents getting direct damage, their superstructure is very small and they have improved, alltho limited, DCP. If you are facing a russian BB, just go do something else.

Next problem is, that BBs generally have strong armor till T5, because they are dreadnoughts. I dont know, if Kotovsky AP is good enough to get pens on broadsiding BBs, but id try that. Fast firing Cruisers, like Omaha, have less issues with permafires, thanks to their good reload.

IFHE is almost useless on T5. Yes, it will help against some BBs, but not all. And then you lower your firechance further. Id forget about IFHE on all tiers except T6 and T8. And even there the usefulness is... eh, but could be justified. But on all other tiers its completely wasted imo.

[Yedwy]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

Basicly ignore russian BBs when being in a Cruiser. You can only lose. Their armor prevents getting direct damage, their superstructure is very small and they have improved, alltho limited, DCP. If you are facing a russian BB, just go do something else.

IFHE Goliath anyone?

[Itwastuesday]

It's fairly miserable. At least the grind to T7 is not long.

[KillStealBoss]

7 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

IFHE Goliath anyone?

 

For real? 🤣

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

IFHE Goliath anyone?

 

With the old IFHE - sure, why not. IFHE Hindi too.

But ofc WG says "more diversity with captain skills" which means, every captain skill will be useless

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

With the old IFHE - sure, why not. IFHE Hindi too.

But ofc WG says "more diversity with captain skills" which means, every captain skill will be useless

Hmm not every :P you still need to use CE on every ship :) 

[ColonelPete]

13 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Yech but you are acting, like the sytuation, when your only enemy is a BB was rare. TBH in my expirience in Wows, the sytuation when my enemy is not a BB is rare. So yeach, i know i shuld fight crusers and and dds in cruser, but i have to fight bbs and sometimes other ships. So idk what the answer is. The best option is to use cruseres who are good against bbs. 

I did not say anything about rarity. I am just making sure he understands the priorities.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Hmm not every :P you still need to use CE on every ship :) 

 

I wonder when they will do something about that... maybe they didnt dare to with the rework, but since they announced they will keep on changing skills, it might happen at some point

"Due to the effectiveness and popularity of CE, we decided to remove it"

[ollonborre]

Some midtier cruisers does suffer more than others. Heavy cruisers have it a bit better as you got higher base pen and fire chance, so in those ships you deal with BB's better. Light cruisers though, sadly only the Germans have a fair chance against same tier BB's due to 1/4 pen. The rest are not bad but yeah they have it rough at times.

[Tanaka_15]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I wonder when they will do something about that... maybe they didnt dare to with the rework, but since they announced they will keep on changing skills, it might happen at some point

"Due to the effectiveness and popularity of CE, we decided to remove it"

Yeach lets not give them ideas, but knowig wg hatred towards any sort of team play and tatcis, i expect this chagne soon. 

[ReverendFlashback]

15 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Basicly ignore russian BBs when being in a Cruiser. You can only lose. Their armor prevents getting direct damage, their superstructure is very small and they have improved, alltho limited, DCP. If you are facing a russian BB, just go do something else.

Next problem is, that BBs generally have strong armor till T5, because they are dreadnoughts. I dont know, if Kotovsky AP is good enough to get pens on broadsiding BBs, but id try that. Fast firing Cruisers, like Omaha, have less issues with permafires, thanks to their good reload.

IFHE is almost useless on T5. Yes, it will help against some BBs, but not all. And then you lower your firechance further. Id forget about IFHE on all tiers except T6 and T8. And even there the usefulness is... eh, but could be justified. But on all other tiers its completely wasted imo.

 

The reason why I opened the thread was because there was a that unspellable russian T5 October something bb at our cap and I couldn't do anything with repeated hits.

No way to avoid him because I was the only one around to defend.

Otherwise yes, they will be my least priority target from now on...

 

Kotovsky AP is really really good vs other cruisers at basically any range but best at 12 km and below.

Vs bbs it is mixed.

10 km and below vs broadside it is way better than he.

But that's basically death zone if the bb decides to get you.

[Yedwy]

34 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

 

For real? 🤣

Yep, its hillarious... 

[DillyWilly40]

As some people here have stated....

At T5 most cruisers are like pellet guns shooting at BB's.  For most newer players the temptation to ONLY shoot HE is so great because setting fires are awesome.  In some games you may get lucky and stack some fires on a flooding ship.  But what you learn from those engagements is not necessarily good for your future progress.

At higher tiers you will encounter various players with varying degrees of skill.  Some BB's players will let some fires burn while finding shelter, and time their reappearance to coincide with having a Repair Party ready to use and looking to hunt you down. 

The lessons you need to learn early on is:

1) You have TWO shell types on board the ship.  Use them both.

2) Place yourself between a friendly (or enemy) smokescreen and shoot at targets between 75% and max range.  I say "75%" because in most cases it allows you to stop shooting and go undetected when more than one enemy ship starts shooting back.

3) ALWAYS switch to AP when a target turns broadside.  Always...unless you KNOW he hit his damage consumable because he got flooded or put out fires...in which case you give it 15 secs and hammer him with more HE. Hit BB's in superstructure and deck while aiming a little lower for cruisers and DD's.

4) Use islands.  Inspect your shell arcs.  Typically Russian and German cruisers cant be too close to islands...their arcs are too low.  And US and UK cruisers can get closer to islands due to much higher arcs.   

5) Don't overstay your welcome in an area.  Constantly check the minimap for your support.  IF you find that your players are dying too fast around you, or they are retreating...reposition yourself while you can.  Doing it too late will mean you are permaspotted and dead.

 

Hope this helps.

[GarrusBrutus]

Don't be afraid to use AP on BBs.

Shoot their "soft" parts to get pens, highlighted in red:

[invicta2012]

33 minutes ago, ReverendFlashback said:

The reason why I opened the thread was because there was a that unspellable russian T5 October something bb at our cap and I couldn't do anything with repeated hits.

Here's the armor model for the Oktober Revolution: 

 

https://gamemodels3d.com/games/worldofwarships/vehicles/prsb505

 

(apologies if that's a bad link, it should at least take you to the right site!)

 

Kotovksy's HE pens 25mm or below of armor, which means you only pen the deck plating on the ends of the ship. This can start a fire, though - BBs can have up to four fires burning on different parts of the ship, so while the superstructure is a worthwhile target, at range you have more options. I tend to "firehose" up and down the length of a BB with individual turrets rather than firing concentrated salvos as this can sometimes bring good results - setting more than one fire, particularly if they've just used DCP,  can often panic BBs , and in a Tier V vs BB contest you need all the help you can get. 

 

If you have a broadside BB to fire at then loading AP and aiming for the bow/stern or (more advanced) upper belt can often bring good damage results.

[ReverendFlashback]

Thanks to everyone pointing out how to use AP better against battleships!

Would have pretty much always used HE against them when not being like 10 kms or so away.

I'll try to make better use of it.