Update 0.10.4 – German Destroyers: Part 2

[CollingwoodDK]

12 minutes ago, Dante_AK said:

I wonder for what WG will "apologize" from this update. 

They will never do that - as they have no idea that some of the things they are doing are wrong in the first place. There might also be a lack of understanding what we are actually saying .... and that some of the announcements in the past  were even  actually insulting.

[BrotherOrion]

27 minutes ago, Wischmob_von_Eimer said:

 

How dare WG create a system that rewards playing the game for everyone.

Its not elitism, its greed on side of WG that they implement this "new and better" system.

 

Cause why couldn’t they instead introduce daily missions? Lets say.. Do 200k DMG? Or Tank 4 Million Potential? Or earn 200k Spotting? Maybe double the amounts you needed for the achievements cause you could earn them over separate battles. That would be a system that would reward everyone. Good players would finish these missions faster, worse players would finish them slower. But still have chances to finish them. Keep the amount of flags you could earn the same while introducing ways to earn new flags. Maybe even rotate missions? 

 

The answer is simple, it wouldn’t drain resources from the game.

 

You want elitism? I can give you elitism.

The new format doesnt reward "playing the game". It rewards winning.

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Un_Dac_Liber said:

 

Game balance changes – Stalingrad and Thunderer nerf to the ground.

 

You do not really know how these ships work.

[tocqueville8]

I'm a bit confused...will the 0.10.4 update introduce new missions for the German DD tokens?

 

I'd like to have about 500 more, to get the Z-31 permacamo and speed up the grind...

[MLG_ice_cream_truck]

Honestly, most of these balance changes for ships are nice, but what on earth are the stalingrad, flint and thunderer ones? I don't think anyone complained about the stalingrad's radar duration, especially after the first nerf, and thunderer's range is not the big issue, it's the HE damage. This is just making the thunderer less fun to play, not making it more fun to play against. As for the flint, if that is supposed to be a buff for the poor ship I don't think it will accomplish much.

[Maris_Piper]

Well for it's IMO Something of a Curates Egg to say the least, I'm up on Buffs and Down on Nerfs regarding my Ships, Thunderer is the new bone that WG are Chewing but I don't play it much anyway since I got Ohio So I care not one jot. Pretty sure they are going to carry on being  Heads with the Flint ang I can do Jack Ship about that so she's now a port queen. and I don't give a toss about the "New" German DD's already got the one's I want before they wave goodbye .

All in All I'm just going to Shoot some Ships and enjoy the Ongoing Chaos, and Grab all the Free Stuff I Can... Good Luck Folks 

[Dante_AK]

WG maybe just tell us your general development plans/ideas for next 2-3 years no matter how "weird" they would be, and i mean real plans. Cuz sitting here and waiting again and again for something good to happen is... (cant find proper word, eng is not my main language).

[cuddlesRO]

Thank god they are buffing Flint, the ship was nearly unplayable on most maps with that  shitty 11.1 km range. 11.9 is welcomed and that main battery reload nerf is not really a problem.

 

 

• Main battery firing range increased from 11.1 to 11.9 km.
• Main battery reload time increased from 4.9 to 5.1s.

 

 

 

[Un_Dac_Liber]

7 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

 

You do not really know how these ships work.

Hey Pete,

It's not about I really know how this ships work,  it's about something else ... I will give you an example

 

You go to a car dealer and buy "The CAR" you wanted and waited long time. You are enjoying your car 100%

After 6-12 month you return for maintenance.

After few hours mechanic is giving you back your dream car and say:

• We took out the turbo, the car was too powerfull for you
• We replace the disc brakes with drum brakes because u don't need anymore disc brakes( we took out the turbo)
• Also we replace your alu rims with metal ones, they are more suitable for you

and you will say: F... I need my dream car back!

 

The issue is that you grind hard for a resource witch is very hard to get in order to buy a ship and after a while  it is reduced at a lemon level , just to be able to give other OP ships and this look to me like a big heist

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Un_Dac_Liber said:

Hey Pete,

It's not about I really know how this ships work,  it's about something else ... I will give you an example

 

You go to a car dealer and buy "The CAR" you wanted and waited long time. You are enjoying your car 100%

After 6-12 month you return for maintenance.

After few hours mechanic is giving you back your dream car and say:

• We took out the turbo, the car was too powerfull for you
• We replace the disc brakes with drum brakes because u don't need anymore disc brakes( we took out the turbo)
• Also we replace your alu rims with metal ones, they are more suitable for you

and you will say: F... I need my dream car back!

 

The issue is that you grind hard for a resource witch is very hard to get in order to buy a ship and after a while  it is reduced at a lemon level , just to be able to give other OP ships and this look to me like a big heist

But they did not do that.

They limited the top speed from 265km/h to 250km/h. 99% of the the time you will not notice the difference. You have no idea about the lack of impact of that change.

 

Even in your example, the change to the car would not be a "nerf to the ground".

 

You are just blowing it out of proportions.

[Un_Dac_Liber]

7 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

But they did not do that.

They limited the top speed from 265km/h to 250km/h. 99% of the the time you will not notice the difference. You have no idea about the lack of impact of that change.

 

Even in your example, the change to the car would not be a "nerf to the ground".

 

You are just blowing it out of proportions.

I allready notice the difference in my Thunderer and I dont like it.

And Stalin will have 20% less radar time.

If their is not such a big deal and nobody will notice the difference why WG is not refunding the amount of special resources spent for that 2 ships. Should be an option 

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Un_Dac_Liber said:

I allready notice the difference in my Thunderer and I dont like it.

And Stalin will have 20% less radar time.

If their is not such a big deal and nobody will notice the difference why WG is not refunding the amount of special resources spent for that 2 ships. Should be an option 

Then you are keeping too much distance.

 

And yes, these changes are not a big deal as they will not balance the ships.

[300ConfirmedKills]

Vor 37 Minuten, Un_Dac_Liber sagte:

Hey Pete,

It's not about I really know how this ships work,  it's about something else ... I will give you an example

 

You go to a car dealer and buy "The CAR" you wanted and waited long time. You are enjoying your car 100%

After 6-12 month you return for maintenance.

After few hours mechanic is giving you back your dream car and say:

• We took out the turbo, the car was too powerfull for you
• We replace the disc brakes with drum brakes because u don't need anymore disc brakes( we took out the turbo)
• Also we replace your alu rims with metal ones, they are more suitable for you

and you will say: F... I need my dream car back!

 

The issue is that you grind hard for a resource witch is very hard to get in order to buy a ship and after a while  it is reduced at a lemon level , just to be able to give other OP ships and this look to me like a big heist

If you go to a car dealer and buy a normal car you're not competing with anyone, so no one but you cares about what's under the bonnet. If you are competing against someone else with your car, you'll be subject to the rules of the competition and you won't be compensated if you have to make your car perform worse to fit within the rules (that's often the purpose of the rules).

[300ConfirmedKills]

I like collecting flags a lot, but 1.5 kdoub is pretty steep no matter how you slice it. I'll be abstaining from that lot. In WoT's Black Market auctions, TX skins (closer in purpose to WoWs flags than a permacamo) start at 250 gold and they don't even sell out.

[WascallyWabbit]

The ZF-6 rewards are real bad, the price continues to creep up, and they are denied to the vast majority of the player base by the paywall WG have constructed to block most players from ever getting the Dockyard ships. Also even though the price of these events and ships in both cash and time are extortionate enough to make even a billionaire wince, WG have also added in the ability to destroy these ships once they have milked the playerbase of enough cash by adding the disclaimer that stats are subject to change even after release.

 

Finally good news for the WG hated step kid the poor Yeuyang. Long mistreated and abused by WG, Beaten repeatedly and constantly reminded how worthless it is. Well, now it is not alone and is to be joined by other step kids WG has now deemed worthless. The Thunderer and Stalingrad have now become the targets of WG to be destroyed over a short period of time with many nerfs yet to be announced...i think Yeuyang received more than 15 nerfs on its road to having its in game relevance destroyed. Enough of the communities sheep have been hoodwinked into spending cash and resources to get them that WG can now begin the hilariously funny process of destroying them as fun, strong, ships that many players have learned how to deal with over the period of time they have been around. Meanwhile broken CV continue to be lavished with every toy WG can cram into their slots and their broken and uncounterable abilities continue to be protected.

 

Lets face it, these ships are about to be destroyed for 2 reasons, one they don't make the money they once did, players are not FXP'ing or buying crates for coal and steel ect to get these ships anymore, therefore they are ideal for viability destruction so WG can clone them, tweak the stats and release other "NEW" paper ships based on their hull and guns ect. I think it stinks that WG push these ships, have players spend cash and resources and a ton of time to get them then systematically destroy them. After 2 or 3 years players learn to counter them, and why wait those 2 or 3 years to "FIX" them until after they have been removed and players have spent cash and resources on them. Why not "balance" them before release or at least balance them no more than a few weeks after release, in the case of Stalingrad WG have had 3 years to "balance" them. It's nothing more than the destruction of playability in those ships to clear the decks for players to be conned into WG's next releases.

 

 

[WascallyWabbit]

1 hour ago, 300ConfirmedKills said:

If you go to a car dealer and buy a normal car you're not competing with anyone, so no one but you cares about what's under the bonnet. If you are competing against someone else with your car, you'll be subject to the rules of the competition and you won't be compensated if you have to make your car perform worse to fit within the rules (that's often the purpose of the rules).

They had 3 years to balance Stalingrad, 2 years for Thunderer to conform to the rules of the competition as you put it. Also the guy said a car dealership not the governing body of a race franchise. No dealership is justified in stripping away performance items bought and paid for by the customer after that sale is completed.

They allowed these ships to be powerful while they milked the playerbase, now they are no longer available for sale they will systematically nerf them into irrelevance claiming balance as the reason while its nothing else but a way to clear the field for new clones based on these ships " borodino" already incoming with a copy paste Stalingrad hull if i'm not mistaken. Ships sold for cash or resources should not be touched again outside of general game mechanics changes. The minute they change something they have advertised and sold based on published stats then they are unilaterally changing the terms of the contract and as such should offer refunds, like any other company, like Un_Dac's car dealership whipping out performance upgrades after the sale they have changed the original contract.

 

Lets not give WG any credit for "balancing" these ships, they had YEARS to do that while the ships were in game available for cash ( crates ) and resources. Now they want to introduce new clone ships based on these ships assets they need to destroy the originals to make the clones more attractive to buyers. There will be many more Balance/nerfs to stalingrad and thunderer over the next few patches mark my words. It's nothing more than another cynical and distasteful grab for money.

[ColonelPete]

24 minutes ago, WascallyWabbit said:

i think Yeuyang received more than 15 nerfs ...

 

27 minutes ago, WascallyWabbit said:

Lets face it, these ships are about to be destroyed...

Exagerate much?

[WascallyWabbit]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

 

Exagerate much?

Not at all....Yeuyang is the perfect example a once good ship now rarer than the Dodo in game. Come back in 3 months after several more nerfs and then we discuss whether my prediction is correct. These ships especially the Thunderer will be under the nerf hammer for many more months and patches to come.

Your also missing one of the main points here. They have had in stalingrads case 3 years to balance it if not longer and 2 years for Thunderer, only now they have removed them and are about to start releasing clones using these ships assets do they begin their famous "balancing".

[YabbaCoe]

Před 17 hodinami Ubertron_X řekl/a:

Debatable. I have yet to find a single special flag to help me in battle, whereas many of the regular flags for achievments do. Special flags are the literal icing on the cake, and while the new cake may look prettier now it also did become a lot smaller.

You are right, that those special signals just give economical bonuses, though really nice ones, but not in-battle improvements.

But still you will get combat signals from More signals containers....

 

Před 17 hodinami MbIW řekl/a:

Soviet Tier X destroyer Grozovoi

• Maximum damage of researchable torpedoes increased from 15,100 to 16,200.
• Chances of causing flooding with torpedoes increased from 250% to 271%.

271 %  LOL

What is wrong with this?

 

Před 16 hodinami zFireWyvern řekl/a:

@YabbaCoe will Agincourt be available by other means i.e. premium store or is she only going to be dropping from the Battle of Jutland containers? It'd be very disappointing if that were the case.

Not for now, currently they will be only in these Battle of Jutland containers. Maybe in future she will appear to be purchased separately.

 

Před 16 hodinami Aragathor řekl/a:

Time to say thank you to WG. Thank you for this:

 

  Odhalit skrytý obsah

Changes to the post-battle summary for Co-op Battles

The rules of the post-battle summary for Co-op Battles are now different. Previously, when a Co-op Battle ended because the last player left, the game ended in a draw. Now, in a similar situation, the battle results are calculated as if the timer expired when the last player left.

This change will prevent situations where the last player has to wait for the battle to end so as to not to finish in a draw.

 

As a regular COOP player this infuriated me sometimes.

And for all the criticism I dish out, I have to say that from time to time, you really do solve problems in the game. So thanks.

Atleast something. I am glad, that you like it.

 

Před 16 hodinami medicdragon řekl/a:

Wow a monster (sarcasm intended) 800mtr 'buff'? to Flints artillery range and a +0.2sec reload nerf! So basically Flint remains ruined. Outstanding  WG!

Well, the main complaint about the range was addressed, yes only by 800 meters, but still better this than previous range. Also this will allows us to gather data, how much those 800m will actually help the efficiency of this ship.

 

Před 11 hodinami Dante_AK řekl/a:

I wonder for what WG will "apologize" from this update. 

I don't understand for what should we apologize for.

[ColonelPete]

21 minutes ago, WascallyWabbit said:

Not at all....Yeuyang is the perfect example a once good ship now rarer than the Dodo in game. Come back in 3 months after several more nerfs and then we discuss whether my prediction is correct. These ships especially the Thunderer will be under the nerf hammer for many more months and patches to come.

Your also missing one of the main points here. They have had in stalingrads case 3 years to balance it if not longer and 2 years for Thunderer, only now they have removed them and are about to start releasing clones using these ships assets do they begin their famous "balancing".

1. YY did not get 15 nerfs
2. YY is still a solid ship and not destroyed
3. Stalingrad and Thunderer will not be destroyed

 

And no, I am not missing a thing. Had they started balancing back in the day, people would have still complained.

[Nauseica]

I will complain for the most important reason that none was mention yet and i think its the most important thing.

 

Dasha onscreen time is getting reduced and you add a man getting the time from our beloved Dasha (atleast you remove the awful jokes from him)
Are you planning to remove her also from the game for balancing reasons :p

The only thing that keeps me watching this videos are Dasha and ye i want to hear a lovely woman voice :p
(Yes im a sexist pig)

[zFireWyvern]

2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

Not for now, currently they will be only in these Battle of Jutland containers. Maybe in future she will appear to be purchased separately.

So random chance at getting a low tier, historically interesting premium. That is a shame, thanks for the answer anyway.

Spoiler

 

[YabbaCoe]

Před 2 hodinami Nauseica řekl/a:

I will complain for the most important reason that none was mention yet and i think its the most important thing.

 

Dasha onscreen time is getting reduced and you add a man getting the time from our beloved Dasha (atleast you remove the awful jokes from him)
Are you planning to remove her also from the game for balancing reasons :p

The only thing that keeps me watching this videos are Dasha and ye i want to hear a lovely woman voice :p
(Yes im a sexist pig)

That is some proper relevant complain.

We are definitely not planning to remove Dasha... those videos and WoWs itself would be incomplete without her. 

[DodoDieHard]

So some buffs of the reload times for German DDs from tier 8 upwards, but no love for the Z-31?
As it stands the Z-39 (0.5 sec better reload vs the Z-31) still offers the better package and even that ship is rather mehish at best. The increased AP angles and damage just don't justify the slower reload and crap HE damage let alone the worse concealment and lack of Hydro or speed boost.

[300ConfirmedKills]

Vor 6 Stunden, WascallyWabbit sagte:

They had 3 years to balance Stalingrad, 2 years for Thunderer to conform to the rules of the competition as you put it. Also the guy said a car dealership not the governing body of a race franchise. No dealership is justified in stripping away performance items bought and paid for by the customer after that sale is completed.

They allowed these ships to be powerful while they milked the playerbase, now they are no longer available for sale they will systematically nerf them into irrelevance claiming balance as the reason while its nothing else but a way to clear the field for new clones based on these ships " borodino" already incoming with a copy paste Stalingrad hull if i'm not mistaken. Ships sold for cash or resources should not be touched again outside of general game mechanics changes. The minute they change something they have advertised and sold based on published stats then they are unilaterally changing the terms of the contract and as such should offer refunds, like any other company, like Un_Dac's car dealership whipping out performance upgrades after the sale they have changed the original contract.

 

Lets not give WG any credit for "balancing" these ships, they had YEARS to do that while the ships were in game available for cash ( crates ) and resources. Now they want to introduce new clone ships based on these ships assets they need to destroy the originals to make the clones more attractive to buyers. There will be many more Balance/nerfs to stalingrad and thunderer over the next few patches mark my words. It's nothing more than another cynical and distasteful grab for money.

You are right that in real life the entity selling the vehicle and governing the competition are rarely one and the same, as they are in the case of World of Warships. This does introduce a conflict of interest on WG's part, as they have a commercial incentive to make products as appealing as possible, but also the responsibility to all players to ensure that the game remains balanced. It's not WG's role as the vendor of goods that justifies them making changes, but their role as the governing body which gives them the responsibility to do so. As the number of players who will fight against any particular ship will always be higher than the number of players playing that ship it should be clear to everyone that the justification for properly balancing all ships must outweigh any reasoning for maintaining them in an unbalanced state, particularly as that larger number will include those players who have paid for other in-game products and are entitled to use them in a fair and balanced game.

A good compromise would be to allow players to use premium and reward ships at their peak power (or maybe their most 'historical' parameters?) in PvE modes, while applying appropriate balance adjustments for PvP modes. This method also has the benefit of being compatible with the 'global mechanic change' charade, for those who can't see through that paper-thin pretence. As far as contracts go, I'd like to see it tested in court. When I bought premium ships, I took note of the ship type and tier when forming my expectations of the product - there are never any specific performance parameters on the purchase page. There should not be any problem with changes that maintain the performance of a purchased ship at the appropriate level for her type and tier. Indeed, such changes should be expected, as WoWs is constantly changing.

 

For a long time WG was content to allow the community to believe that premium/reward ships were exempt from proper balance changes. That was wrong of them. By explicitly rejecting that principle, they are partially making up for that previous error. It took a long time, but better late than never.