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_Lupastro_

Noob question, want to improve...

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Greetings Captains,

 

ok I'm not really in the beginning but I want to ask the community a question to improve my skills and be more efficient. I really like to play with DDs and I like to play stealth and torpedoes (:Smile_hiding:). Of course often happens that you have to contest with other DDs in close situations. Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Is there a "general" rule for improve my damage output? For example USA DDs better with HE and russian with AP, or up to 120mm better AP and over better HE?

Any advice will be welcome! Thanks!

 

I know my english is like klingon...:Smile_facepalm:

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shoot he!.... there's dd's out there with (up to very) usable ap, but if insecure just he them. otherwise it's ap closeup range on broadsides, given what dd ur on.

 

if u're on a torpboat try to have opponent gunboats behind u, not in front (aKa try to point stern to them). use ur smoke wisely. like f.e., if u encounter a better gunboat who is out of smoke, go full speed in a turn and land as many shots as possible. just dont forget to turn out in time, so u can run behind ur smoke screen. he (and u) in this scenario will blop spotted and concealed, just be the one who hits more. only kicks in ofc if no one else spots u afterwards while running...

 

2cts, there's way more

 

*in doubt running/spotting and surviving is more of the better option anyway ;)

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22 minutes ago, _Lupastro_ said:

Greetings Captains,

 

ok I'm not really in the beginning but I want to ask the community a question to improve my skills and be more efficient. I really like to play with DDs and I like to play stealth and torpedoes (:Smile_hiding:). Of course often happens that you have to contest with other DDs in close situations. Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Is there a "general" rule for improve my damage output? For example USA DDs better with HE and russian with AP, or up to 120mm better AP and over better HE?

Any advice will be welcome! Thanks!

 

I know my english is like klingon...:Smile_facepalm:

  • choose your battles, take note where your and the enemies teammates are as they can change the outcome of a DD fight quickly, do not take on ships stronger than you, unless it is obvious you have help or have the advantage
  • skill your guns on your torpboats, unless you plan to torp from max range, for good torp hits you need to get close to the target and there is usually an enemy DD between you and your target, gun skills help with dealing with the enemy dd
  • train your aiming

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48 minuti fa, VIadoCro ha scritto:

Just checked your stats to see where there is room for improvement and, dude :cap_wander_2: you are already far better than me. I´ll leave it up to better players to help you out...

To spare some typing, here it is: https://wows-numbers.com/player/556460715,_Lupastro_/

And your Klingon sounds very English :Smile_Default:

Thanks, but I never want to stop to learn and improve

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First of all I love you for the mere topic "...want to improve". This is what we all love to read. If more people wanted to improve rather than wonder "what's wrong with my teams", we'd have a far smarter player base.

 

32 minutes ago, _Lupastro_ said:

Greetings Captains,

 

ok I'm not really in the beginning but I want to ask the community a question to improve my skills and be more efficient. I really like to play with DDs and I like to play stealth and torpedoes (:Smile_hiding:). Of course often happens that you have to contest with other DDs in close situations. Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Is there a "general" rule for improve my damage output? For example USA DDs better with HE and russian with AP, or up to 120mm better AP and over better HE?

Any advice will be welcome! Thanks!

 

As was already noted, you seem to be well above average as is. So not much need telling you basics. In general you need to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of your ship and play accordingly. Sounds trivial but has lots of strings attached. You also need to know the same for your likely opponent.

You check the map and follow the appearance of the enemy DD line-up. Which DD pops up on a distant flank and what DDs remain to be possible opponents in your cap? Then you compare them. Say you are in a Shimakaze and your possible opponent is a Z-52 or a Yueyang. So you know, you will spot them first. So you don't want to rush in hard to close the distance and be spotted back, but get them spotted while remaining dark. Now you also check the enemy clan tag or stats, cause a good player in a Yueyang - even more so in a division - might well have radar equipped. In that case you don't want to giveaway your position dipping into the cap. You see, the whole thing is about "what would I do if I were them and how do I take that into account"? It's flowing. If the opponent is a Z-52, you need him at arms length, so he can't hydro you. So in Shimakaze, your firepower is inferior, but you dominate the engagement with distance and spotting. Spot the DD while remaining dark and wait until your cruisers have done 8-10k damage to the DD. Then you dominate and can even take the duel, if you have to.

Second thing a Shimakaze or similar ships have is good arcs. So why fight a Gearing at 5km, when you can hit him at 7km while he struggles to still hit you back? The whole thing turns upside down, when you are the Gearing. Then you don't want to pursue a Shima, cause he got all the guns on the rear plus he lures you to his friends. So you make more ambushes, getting close and hitting the DD close range with your superior dpm.

 

You can shoot AP at angled targets, but angles change so fast and it's a matter of timing. It's like dancing. Say you reload every 4s, but the enemy DD turns in to shoot his rear gun every 6s. Then you can only shoot him with AP when he gives you that angle, which is every 6s. So you just killed 1/3 of your dpm, just waiting for the enemy to show the angle where you don't bounce or overpen. That only makes sense on slower reloading DDs with very good AP.

 

In general, DD-duels are a lot of mind games and knowing what they know or what they think you know. That's the beauty of DD play. You are playing against humen and you can feel their personality in their way of playing the ships. You gotta understand quickly what character you are playing against. Is he stubborn, will he try to gun you down no matter what, then you lure him to your team. Is he cautious. Then you let him see you run away, just to turn when dark and rush him hard. There is literally a thousand things to say about a thousand situations and nobody could describe them all. Know your ship, know their ship, know your support and his support and know the person behind the ship. Take all that into account in a few seconds, come up with a preliminary plan and if you fail, analyse where you got it wrong.

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34 minutes ago, _Lupastro_ said:

I really like to play with DDs and I like to play stealth and torpedoes (:Smile_hiding:). Of course often happens that you have to contest with other DDs in close situations. Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Torpedo focused DDs often have low rate of fire but relatively high alpha (f.e. Shimakaze). If a shima comes into close quarter combat with another DD it tends to lose.

But.....

A shima is fast, has low concealment and most of its gunpower on the back of the ship. This means that you want to fight the enemy DD with your aft towards him.

When going for caps: Reverse into the cap, this way you can make a quick escape and you take less damage when spotted.

 

You don't want to encounter enemy DDS like this:

Spoiler

Now you need to make a full turn, taking lots of damage.

image.png.dcadd98586122ee6784f00af7ba4fb71.png

Instead you want to encounter them like this:

Spoiler

Already in kiting position and reversing into them. This way,  when you spot them you can immediately run. This gives you the upper hand in the engagement.

image.png.dbccaeeb43a098d13fcb6784eced74d0.png

When a match starts, try to imagine and predict where you will encounter the enemy DDs. Ofcourse if the enemy has French DDs you can expect them earlier due to their speed. But overall you will encounter the enemy DDs on the "equator" of the map. Make sure you do not run into them head first like the first picture above, but instead be prepared and have your ship in the right position, like in the second picture above.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.f937eb97cec05d04dfcfd5f37adb489b.png

 

 

 

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my 10 cents

 

1. never never pick a fair fight. 

Try to fight a red DD when you have more support, even better when the red DD has no support.

Try to fight a red DD that has significantly lower health than yours.

Try to fight a red DD that does not expect you to pop up and has e.g. their their guns turned the other way.

Try to fight when the red DD has to follow a specific route and can't turn out (e.g. when they are sailing with a land mass to their side)

Try to fight just after the red DD has used their smoke and they can't smoke up to disengage

 

2. Don't fight a DD with long range Hydro at close range. They will smoke up and sink you or take away a lot of your HP.

 

3. Don't try to torp during the gun fight. You will lose precious time (time = DPM). Try to torp before you engage at the predicted escape route of the red DD and then start with your guns.

 

4. Don't shoot at the same spot on their hull because of saturation mechanics. You will increase your DPM by shifting the point of aim.

 

5. Try always to have the first shot from concealment. You will manage to get two salvos before they shoot their first. Try to get your first and second salvo on the funnels. You have a high probability to knock out the engine and either make them spend their R consumable or suffer a knocked out engine which will help you a lot.

 

6. Equip your DDs with RPF. (I should have written this one first) - Using RPF try to get in the knife-fight while turning out so you are angled. You will suffer a lot less damage.

 

7. Try to let the red DD (sometimes) shoot first so you can smoke up (after they shoot) and shoot behind your smoke. You will have 20 seconds to do damage, disengage and then engage again at your decision. 

 

8. No need to kill them with the first encounter. Do damage (a lot more than you receive) go dark and then get back again.

 

These are a few thoughts and by no means an exhaustive primer on DD knife fighting.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Cheers

Salt

 

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oh weeeh.... dang, if not in port u might just missed the perfect solution in the prem shop lol (just been taken off sale) :Smile_bajan2:

 

 

is it a torpboat? is it a gunboat? .... all we know: it's a cat... so, u never know ^^ :Smile_great:

100mm turrets, best of both worlds!

kCzCeHK.jpg

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Judging by your stats I should be taking notes from you. 😊

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I am not a dd fan. I am a cruiser main. I have respect for what a dd means to a team and have a healthy enough understanding of this to focus them every chance I get.

 

I also tend to play more aggressive gun boat dds for the sole purpose of killing other dds. 

 

with all this said.

 

  1. Learn the builds and armor of your fellow dds. Some dds like the Heavy German DD and the Khaba have some wonky heavy armor plates so while HE is best in most cases AP can be effective in certain cases.
  2. Never chase a dd to attack, always retreat. It is easier to mitigate incoming shells while kiting away.
  3. There is no shame in running away, however remember you are the primary vision giving tool to your team and generally only you will be able to see the enemy dds before they can fell your teamates so be prepared to dive back it to get vision and make sure you f3 every time you see a dd.
  4. RPF is your friend make sure you have it.
  5. DO NOT SIT IN SMOKE and smoke fire if there are dds that could be in the area. Seriously the amount of times I have seen people rush a cap pop a smoke only to eat a wave of torps is so numerous I wonder why many still do this.
  6. When you plan to engage a dd with gun fire scroll back your view 1 click rather then being full zoomed. This has helped me out in both dd and ca.
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Skip ahead to Tier IX because that only gets around 30% carrier battles.

That is 20 to 70% less than on other tiers where there are CVs.

Whenever carriers are around, tactics go out the window anyway and all you learn is that you are hapless fodder for these griefers.

And you already knew that.

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1) Take RPF. It helps with predictive torpedoes, and it's a psychological deterrent in general.

2) Unless you're playing a French DD and you're going to cheese an early cap, keep your speed boost for defensive maneauvers.

3) Likewise, don't waste a smoke (unless you're playing a British or Pan Asian DD, possibly) if you're the one providing the spotting, unless it's a defensive smoke to get out unscathed.

4) However, if someone else can spot the enemy DD (his smoke is guaranteed to be on cooldown, or he doesn't have one at all), do smoke up and farm him.

5) In DD vs DD fights, vary your speed. If your DD has relatively lots of guns at the back (Yugumo, Z-46, etc.), consider only using those, to present a smaller target. Likewise, you might go nose-in when driving a Lightning, Gadjah Mada, Z-52 and so on.

6) If you outspot a DD by a lot (not everyone has a captain with Concealment Expert, or it might just be a DD with bad concealment), you might consider chasing him without shooting him, allowing your team to do the job. If he shoots back at them, consider going for #4.

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4 ore fa, GarrusBrutus ha scritto:

Torpedo focused DDs often have low rate of fire but relatively high alpha (f.e. Shimakaze). If a shima comes into close quarter combat with another DD it tends to lose.

But.....

A shima is fast, has low concealment and most of its gunpower on the back of the ship. This means that you want to fight the enemy DD with your aft towards him.

When going for caps: Reverse into the cap, this way you can make a quick escape and you take less damage when spotted.

 

You don't want to encounter enemy DDS like this:

  Nascondi contenuti

Now you need to make a full turn, taking lots of damage.

image.png.dcadd98586122ee6784f00af7ba4fb71.png

Instead you want to encounter them like this:

  Nascondi contenuti

Already in kiting position and reversing into them. This way,  when you spot them you can immediately run. This gives you the upper hand in the engagement.

image.png.dbccaeeb43a098d13fcb6784eced74d0.png

When a match starts, try to imagine and predict where you will encounter the enemy DDs. Ofcourse if the enemy has French DDs you can expect them earlier due to their speed. But overall you will encounter the enemy DDs on the "equator" of the map. Make sure you do not run into them head first like the first picture above, but instead be prepared and have your ship in the right position, like in the second picture above.

  Rivela contenuti nascosti

image.thumb.png.f937eb97cec05d04dfcfd5f37adb489b.png

 

 

 

interesting! thanks! will try :Smile_medal:

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To all those suggesting that OP has to take RPF: why? Imo it's a waste of 4 points.

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Vor 8 Stunden, _Lupastro_ sagte:

Greetings Captains,

 

ok I'm not really in the beginning but I want to ask the community a question to improve my skills and be more efficient. I really like to play with DDs and I like to play stealth and torpedoes (:Smile_hiding:). Of course often happens that you have to contest with other DDs in close situations. Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Is there a "general" rule for improve my damage output? For example USA DDs better with HE and russian with AP, or up to 120mm better AP and over better HE?

Any advice will be welcome! Thanks!

 

I know my english is like klingon...:Smile_facepalm:

 

Generally use HE, in Jutland and Daring you can switch to AP, as well as with 100 mm IJN guns when fighting DDs and they show broadside. 

 

Aim for not already damage saturated areas of the hull. Damage goes down if you shot always the same part.

 

Know which DDs have the highest DPS. You should e.g. not engage a Kitakaze in any other DD 1on1 without having the HP advantage.

 

Use RPF to locate other DDs not only for finding them for engagement but also for evasion.

 

With torp boats try always to kite away in an steep angle (not 180 degree!), this make you more difficult to hit. Escpacially IJN torp boats have 2 rear mounted guns and can shoot while increase the distance. 

 

Qapla'!

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10 hours ago, _Lupastro_ said:

Greetings Captains,

 

ok I'm not really in the beginning but I want to ask the community a question to improve my skills and be more efficient. I really like to play with DDs and I like to play stealth and torpedoes (:Smile_hiding:). Of course often happens that you have to contest with other DDs in close situations. Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Is there a "general" rule for improve my damage output? For example USA DDs better with HE and russian with AP, or up to 120mm better AP and over better HE?

Any advice will be welcome! Thanks!

 

I know my english is like klingon...:Smile_facepalm:

Sounds like IJN DD line (Yugumo, Shima, Asashio etc). To much to go over in a post but I done pretty extensive guides that you can find on my Youtube channel (linked below) Specially how you build DDs and how you contest caps and survive to the end of the game were you are able to effect the outcome. Got full playlists of Yugumo Asashio and Shimakaze. The lower tiers play the same.

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12 hours ago, _Lupastro_ said:

Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Try to pick Your opponents wisely bearing in mind your balistics and effective range of firing, so ex. don't duel in Gearing with Khaba past a few km and only then when she has low health (repair party) etc. Try using WSAD, islands, smoke as much as You can to mitigate damage taken.

 

You can always use mods which show enemy PR in battle, so You will know who is weak and with who is better not to fight without good support.

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Ideally you never want to break line of sight with the rest of the team, unless the targets are slow and radarless, like for instance battleships. 

On the topic of RPF, I am a big fan of the skill. RPF has several uses:

- tells you where to torp

- tells you where the torps are likely to come from (and therefore where your stern or back should be pointing)

- RPF is vital for end-game carries.

 

As said above, you don't want to get caught in a turn - if that happens against a radar minotaur for instance it will cost you a lot. Being always on a run and making yourself a hard-to-kill target frustrates the enemy and makes them prone to mistakes.

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20 hours ago, _Lupastro_ said:

Greetings Captains,

 

ok I'm not really in the beginning but I want to ask the community a question to improve my skills and be more efficient. I really like to play with DDs and I like to play stealth and torpedoes (:Smile_hiding:). Of course often happens that you have to contest with other DDs in close situations. Here I totally sucks, in gunfire exchanges I always have the feelings to do less damage than those suffered.

Is there a "general" rule for improve my damage output? For example USA DDs better with HE and russian with AP, or up to 120mm better AP and over better HE?

Any advice will be welcome! Thanks!

 

I know my english is like klingon...:Smile_facepalm:

Hiya And Welcome


Firstly I would say that if you want to get good, really good then you need to specialise. Being a generalist is all well and fine but it takes a MIGHTY good player to be able to play all ships tiers and classes well in this game as there are so many variables.

I chose to specialize in IJN DDs. I can and do play some other ships but not many to be honest. A DD player is what I am.

Now as you like the stealth torp meta I suggest you do the same. So stop playing all other ships and focus on IJN and master each ship in turn. 

What do I mean by master it?

Do not move on from that ship until you feel you simply cannot play it any better in any given situation you find yourself in. Your WR will reflect this state of mind and playstyle.

Some tips...

In IJN your torps are your main weapon (Not the gun boat line of course)
Your stealth is your second weapon
Your guns are very situational

Do NOT ever let the enemy know where you are if you can help it. Dictate your engagements.
ONLY ever use your guns when you have to or you have good support or the situation favors you and not them. I use my guns in Fujin a LOT for example but they are pot shots I can get away with. Shots as I go behind an island, shots when a ship is not looking at me and or has no close support. I never ever shoot when i'm on a torp run or even before Im on a torp run as I need them not to know I'm on my way.
Do NOT sail straight into cap. Sit back, chill see what pops up on minimap. Look at minimap and figure out who has been spotted, where they are. What is the likely DD you are facing in this cap. Do you outspot him.

If I know I outspot him I might reverse in slowly until I detect him. I might go in obliquely and do the same but slowly so I don't lose my advantage. 

DD's do NOT like being spotted. Use it to your advantage. Your stealth IS a weapon.

Understand where the CV plane lanes are and stay away from them. Do NOT if you can help it let the CV see you on his first exploration. He WILL get bored and go looking for other targets which gives you TIME to position. Time to cap etc.

Talking of positioning understand where you need to be now but also where you need to be or might need to be in 3 minutes time. Head there. You need to have spacial awareness to pull this off. Look at minimap all the time to see how the battle is unfolding. You cannot influence the the other side but you might need to be there to prevent a push. Be aware of what is going on.

SPOT all the time. Your team are relying on you to SPOT for them. You are relying on them to do damage. It is a synergistic relationship. You MUST work for your team and NOT as a lone wolf if you want to win. Most players that know anything about this game will love playing with a dd player than knows what he is doing trust me! It allows them to enjoy their game and they know this.

Always have RPF equipped on IJN. You DO need to know where enemy ships are so you don't get ambushed or spotted when the situation is not favourable. It gives you more valuable information than it gives away. You also need to know the likely direction of incoming torps too.

Have your torps in the water. They are a powerful psychological barrier to ships that want to push. But in saying this don't waste them. Have good angles when you fire. Choose your targets wisely. Don't fire your torps at a BB passed a DD as of course your target will see them from a mile away. Patience..

The best torp run is on the side the enemy's guns are NOT. He is looking the other way and focused on other things which will give you a few seconds extra run time before he notices and reacts. Extra seconds means more hits.

Recognise you cannot win every game BUT doing all of these small things elevates you from the 50% range of player to the purple 60% range. It is the 1 battle difference where YOU made a difference by not dying early, preventing a push, capping and winning on points. Etc etc

I could write a whole lot more. DD's are not easy to play so kudos to you for wanting to master them. 

Good luck in your endeavours...
 

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To be honest at this stage, in the game I wouldn't even waste the time on it if I was in your shoes. Is a crap show, to be quite honest and it just gets worse after every patch they release.

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21 hours ago, lup3s said:

To all those suggesting that OP has to take RPF: why? Imo it's a waste of 4 points.

Actually, for me it's the most useful 4 pnt skill for DD's after conceilment and worth every point. Once you get comfortable with it you get valuable tactical info that will help you counter surprises, set up traps, be ready for attacks, blind torp invisible targets and understand how enemy dd's are approaching a cap, so you can prep yourself and your team to counter it as optimal as possible.

 

I only started using it a couple of months ago, but I feel naked when I'm sailing a ship without it.

 

General rule # 1 in DD's: Never pick a fair fight.

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8 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Actually, for me it's the most useful 4 pnt skill for DD's after conceilment and woth every point. Once you get comfortable with it you get valuable tactical info that will help you counter surprises, set up traps, be ready for attacks, blind torp invisible targets and understand how enemy dd's are approaching a cap, so you can prep yourself and you team to counter it as optimal as possible.

 

I only started using it a couple of months ago, but I feel naked when I'm sailing a ship without it.

 

putputput... nice bait. Well, not only a RPF bait, more like a hydro-bait too, but RPF certainly helped to set that up in the longrun.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Shadedshots said:

To be honest at this stage, in the game I wouldn't even waste the time on it if I was in your shoes. Is a crap show, to be quite honest and it just gets worse after every patch they release.

If it was that bad you wouldn't be here anymore. Even if you don't like the game anymore, why would you try to poison their experience? 

Let new players decide for themselves if the game is fun or not.

If I start world of warcraft today I might still enjoy it even when veteran players have already left because it wasn't fun for them anymore. 

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13 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

putputput... nice bait. Well, not only a RPF bait, more like a hydro-bait too, but RPF certainly helped to set that up in the longrun.

More like a stagger-your-torpedo-launches bait, really.

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