Has anyone made the statistical analysis of ship class usage (CV, BB, DD, CA/CL) since the January 2021 and introduction of latest "Commander Skill Rework/Update" ?

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Has anyone made the statistical analysis of ship class usage (CV, BB, DD, CA/CL) since the January 2021 and introduction of latest "Commander Skill Rework/Update" ?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[ColonelPete]

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

I doubt the commander rework had any noteworthy effect. Class introductions and events are more dominant.

[Adm_Andre]

5 of 12 == 42%

 

with a hardcap *) of 5 BB per side, the average share of 42% cannot rise any further, nevertheless the long waiting queue

 

*) But i think there were observations in the past weeks of games with 6 BBs...

[ColonelPete]

We had weeks with over 42% BB. During March we had two weeks with over 43%.

But yes, the softcap of 5 BB reduces the BB ratio.

[Tanaka_15]

So chagne working as intented massive BB buff :D

[Datz68]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

I doubt the commander rework had any noteworthy effect. Class introductions and events are more dominant.

I see DD class is rising recently... quite interesting... Cruiser people are afraid of deadeye, so they move to DD... 

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, Admirality said:

I see DD class is rising recently... quite interesting... Cruiser people are afraid of deadeye, so they move to DD... 

As you can see the development started March 2020. That has nothing to do with deadeye.

[Datz68]

12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

As you can see the development started March 2020. That has nothing to do with deadeye.

So what is the reason?

[Tanaka_15]

1 minute ago, Admirality said:

So what is the reason?

BBs are op. Crusers are geting extinct (5bbs + CV eniroment gives real place for 1-2 crusers) so people who are bored by BB go to play DDs. i was a cruser player but now i tend to not play t7++ crusers no fun in beeing xp piniata for bbs and cvs. 

[HystericalAccuracy]

1 hour ago, Admirality said:

I see DD class is rising recently... quite interesting... Cruiser people are afraid of deadeye, so they move to DD... 

caught me

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

As you can see the development started March 2020. That has nothing to do with deadeye.

In my case it has to do with deadeye. First I tried to stick to my cruisers, but over time all the sniping BBs took a toll on me and I fled to the DDs. It didn´t happen instantly, but rather after months. So even if it apparently wasn´t due to rework/deadeye... it actually was. I just needed some time to move to the other class.

 

btw thank you for making these graphs, Pete. It does sometimes annoy me, but a healthy counter-argument is welcomed and need to avoid the comfortable "echo-chamber"

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

I doubt the commander rework had any noteworthy effect. Class introductions and events are more dominant.

 

But it does show the drop for cruisers after the January 2021...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[ColonelPete]

32 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

But it does show the drop for cruisers after the January 2021...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

We have a drop since March 2020...

Spoiler

46 minutes ago, Admirality said:

So what is the reason?

• we had UK CA in February 2020, which increased the CA numbers far above the average, after that the numbers went back down a bit
• in March to May we had the EU DD, but CA stayed at above average levels
• from May to July we had the RU CA split which kept the numbers stable, but in the end the numbers went down a bit, probably because the ships were not that attractive for the majority of players
• from July to August we had the KM CV, which were not really friendly to CA and the numbers started to sink
• in October we had the US BB split, which increased BB popularity, which in turn is not good for CA
• CA numbers were stable in the weeks before after the skill rework
• end of March we got the RM BB, which increased the BB popularity again and lowered CA popularity
• now we have the KM DD, which increases DD popularity even further

 

 

With the Dutch Cruisers one can expect that CA numbers will rise again.

[Aragathor]

31 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

But it does show the drop for cruisers after the January 2021...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Sssh, don't destroy other people's delusions.

 

What I see is a drop in CV popularity. Time for buffs.

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

I doubt the commander rework had any noteworthy effect. Class introductions and events are more dominant.

That's Random ? or all combined (Ranked/Random/COOP/CB) ?

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

That's Random ? or all combined (Ranked/Random/COOP/CB) ?

Random.

[SodaBubbles]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

I doubt the commander rework had any noteworthy effect. Class introductions and events are more dominant.

The dropoff in cruisers is obvious. 

One thing hidden by this chart is supercruisers. I wonder how many players switched to supercruisers in response to the CV plague and the plethora of BBs. 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, SodaBubbles said:

The dropoff in cruisers is obvious. 

One thing hidden by this chart is supercruisers. I wonder how many players switched to supercruisers in response to the CV plague and the plethora of BBs. 

Yes, the dropoff since March 2020.

Spoiler

 

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

32 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

We have a drop since March 2020...

• we had UK CA in February 2020, which increased the CA numbers far above the average, after that the numbers went back down a bit
• in March to May we had the EU DD, but CA stayed at above average levels
• from May to July we had the RU CA split which kept the numbers stable, but in the end the numbers went down a bit, probably because the ships were not that attractive for the majority of players
• from July to August we had the KM CV, which were not really friendly to CA and the numbers started to sink
• in October we had the US BB split, which increased BB popularity, which in turn is not good for CA
• CA numbers were stable in the weeks before after the skill rework
• end of March we got the RM BB, which increased the BB popularity again and lowered CA popularity
• now we have the KM DD, which increases DD popularity even further

 

With the Dutch Cruisers one can expect that CA numbers will rise again.

 

True... the Cruisers are the most "Hard Hit" class (and the "hated" CVs are really really low)... and the most recent "Commander rework" in January 2021 most certainly didn't help the Cruiser cause either...

 

I do like that DDs have risen!

 

 

Leo "Apolo11"

[t0ffik1]

1 hour ago, Tanaka_15 said:

BBs are op. Crusers are geting extinct (5bbs + CV eniroment gives real place for 1-2 crusers) so people who are bored by BB go to play DDs. i was a cruser player but now i tend to not play t7++ crusers no fun in beeing xp piniata for bbs and cvs. 

Tbh its not that BB's are OP as their WR is one of the lowest on high tiers, the things is Cruisers cant deal decently with dd's from a long time on high tiers (specially non radar cruisers).
Since cruiser play (except ships like petro/stalin/moskva) is more similar to destroyer play, while at the same time destroyers manage with very big ease to "neutralize" cruisers just by sitting outside of radar (what is easy) or just spotting them, ppl switch to destroyers to actually counter other destroyers (not even gonna talk about harugumo's and similar ships, who play like a smolensk/mino etc).

 

Cruisers can manage relatively vs a BB (if rng is decent you can almost instantly burn him down), but cruisers dont manage well vs a BB/DD combo and thats the problem.

Cruisers should have a relative decent option to manage a DD and not get fucked over just by his presence with him providing vision.

Just look at it from team game problem: BB can do somewhat decently (if rng and im is ok) to hit a spotted DD, while a combo of CA/DD can do that better, but not world apart crushing better to pay off the risk of BB hitting the crusier or deleting it(as radar is just limited range and enemy DD has to afk yacht into it).

So there is the problem... CA's cant manage well enough high tier DD's.

Currently in a division it is better to have a destroyer counter a destroyer (specially with RADAR) then a cruiser do it just because destroyers are 2nd highest game influence class already from 2018 (when shown of CC summit).

 

Also current bulls*** retar*** CV's dont help cruisers also, as then they cant rly do their job (while dd's have smoke and agility to at least dodge somewhat). Like hell i preffer to be in a DD vs a CV or even a BB dmg piniata, then sit in a cruiser vs a CV.

Btw the crap wg tries to pull off and release a tier 8 12km radar BB will ge glorious :D (and they ofc will remove it fast claming it isnt because radar on BB's IS OP - like the Missouri and russian imaginary biasboats tests showed!).

[ColonelPete]

10 minutes ago, t0ffik1 said:

Tbh its not that BB's are OP as their WR is one of the lowest on high tiers,

CA have around 0.01%-points higher winrating than BB and that is probably a statistical anomaly or a rounding error.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210508/eu_2month/average_class_u.html

 

Since we have mirrored MM, no class can be superior in winrating to another class.

[The_Chiv]

19 minutes ago, t0ffik1 said:

Tbh its not that BB's are OP as their WR is one of the lowest on high tiers, the things is Cruisers cant deal decently with dd's from a long time on high tiers (specially non radar cruisers).
Since cruiser play (except ships like petro/stalin/moskva) is more similar to destroyer play, while at the same time destroyers manage with very big ease to "neutralize" cruisers just by sitting outside of radar (what is easy) or just spotting them, ppl switch to destroyers to actually counter other destroyers (not even gonna talk about harugumo's and similar ships, who play like a smolensk/mino etc).

 

Cruisers can manage relatively vs a BB (if rng is decent you can almost instantly burn him down), but cruisers dont manage well vs a BB/DD combo and thats the problem.

Cruisers should have a relative decent option to manage a DD and not get fucked over just by his presence with him providing vision.

Just look at it from team game problem: BB can do somewhat decently (if rng and im is ok) to hit a spotted DD, while a combo of CA/DD can do that better, but not world apart crushing better to pay off the risk of BB hitting the crusier or deleting it(as radar is just limited range and enemy DD has to afk yacht into it).

So there is the problem... CA's cant manage well enough high tier DD's.

Currently in a division it is better to have a destroyer counter a destroyer (specially with RADAR) then a cruiser do it just because destroyers are 2nd highest game influence class already from 2018 (when shown of CC summit).

 

Also current bulls*** retar*** CV's dont help cruisers also, as then they cant rly do their job (while dd's have smoke and agility to at least dodge somewhat). Like hell i preffer to be in a DD vs a CV or even a BB dmg piniata, then sit in a cruiser vs a CV.

Btw the crap wg tries to pull off and release a tier 8 12km radar BB will ge glorious :D (and they ofc will remove it fast claming it isnt because radar on BB's IS OP - like the Missouri and russian imaginary biasboats tests showed!).

The problem is a bit more complex. If a cruiser supports their dd and fires at an enemy dd they are instantly targeted by every enemy cruiser and bb who can see them and then you get a combination of DPM+Overmatch meaning said cruiser either died or lost more then 50% of their life and will be less combat effective later on. Now a cruiser that uses terrain and does not support their dd will live longer have a much higher damage count and thus earn more xp, but the lack of dd sport means the role of ANTI dd falls onto the dd. Solution to this is to change how overmatch works against cruisers. Since overmatch is on constantly it makes any effort by the cruiser a very suicidal one. If however ovematch had a range component, say 15km then we would see 2 things happening. One cruisers would not be one shot'd as often as we have seen and two it will provide encoragement for more pushing by BBs and less sniping which im sure a majority of us can agree is a good thing.

[t0ffik1]

12 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

The problem is a bit more complex. If a cruiser supports their dd and fires at an enemy dd they are instantly targeted by ever enemy cruiser and bb who can see them and they you get a combination of DPM+ Overmatch meaning said cruiser either died or lost more then 50% of their life and will be less combat effective later on. Now a cruiser that uses terrain and does not support their dd will live longer have a much higher damage count and thus earn more xp, but the lack of dd sport means the role of ANTI dd falls onto the dd. Solution to this is to change how overmatch works against cruisers. Since overmatch is on constantly it makes any effort by the cruiser a very suicidal one. If however ovematch had a range component, say 15km then we would see 2 things happening. One cruisers would not be one shot'd as often as we have seen and two it will provide encoragement for more pushing by BBs and less sniping which im sure a majority of us can agree is a good thing.

Yes and no... the thing is, if a cruiser goes in and fails his wondow of support with radar, he becomes quite useless. Cruiser has good dpm to [edited]over a BB, the thing is he cant blap a DD (except venezia) like a dd can blap a BB or blap other DD or even blap a careless CA.

If BB/DD combo is almost as effective as a CA/DD combo. while in the same time a CA can manage good vs a BB in 1 on 1, while DD vs BB corelation is also good and BB is defenceless. then its clearly a problem of corelation of CA vs a DD. Specially that it already is indicated if you try to do a 1 vs 1 situation in CA vs a DD (and you dont have radar). You are just at his mercy.

We are a point where crusier without radar isnt even considered a valid pick - and thats not because of BB's but because of his lack of any option to counter a DD. 
 

Problem currently with DD's is they [edited]up CA's, and it by default game mechanics. Doesnt matter if its a DD vs BB or DD vs CA, DD's are always the class that choose when they want to engage and how. This corelation wont ever be healthy when the class that is countered by another class can just choose to engage without any risk of retaliation (for example torp spamming a cruiser from push).

I dont know maybe a solution would be bring on every high tier crusier a HYDRO (to let them avoid more powerfull then ever torps) so that they can have DEF AA + HYDRO and potentially MAYBE radar.

Or maybe give cruisers shorter CD Hydros (or shorter CD/shorter duration) so that they can use it when they want and be effective in at least protecting from torps. As more and more powerfull torps (and dont get me started with 100+kts torps in thight EU drop) are [edited]up cruisers extreamly hard. 1 hit from torp on BB isnt as bad as on a CA (and that just shows how bad the situation is).

[Tanaka_15]

8 minutes ago, t0ffik1 said:

Yes and no... the thing is, if a cruiser goes in and fails his wondow of support with radar, he becomes quite useless. Cruiser has good dpm to [edited]over a BB, the thing is he cant blap a DD (except venezia) like a dd can blap a BB or blap other DD or even blap a careless CA.

If BB/DD combo is almost as effective as a CA/DD combo. while in the same time a CA can manage good vs a BB in 1 on 1 then its clearly a problem of corelation of CA vs a DD.

We are a point where crusier without radar isnt even considered a valid pick - and thats not because of BB's but because of his lack of any option to counter a DD. 

Problem currently with DD's [edited]up CA's is that doesnt matter if its a DD vs BB or DD vs CA, DD's are always the class that choose when they want to engage and how. This corelation wont ever be healthy when the class that is countered by another class can just choose to engage without any risk of retaliation (for example torp spamming a cruiser from push).

I dont know maybe a solution would be bring on every high tier crusier a HYDRO (to let them avoid more powerfull then ever torps) so that they can have DEF AA + HYDRO and potentially MAYBE radar.

I disagree when i play cruser dds are not my problem. My problem is lack of tools to fast kill a BB and risk of beeing one shoot by a BB. So i chose DDs, cos DDs deals better with all the bbs in game. Crusers just dont have any space to life because when spoted they get blaped by one of 5 bbs looking for easy dmg.  Imho the problem is BBs need be less overmach effecitve at long distance in killing crusers we are at a point when i think it is harder to play cruser than a DD. Or we need to cap bbs to 3 per game (yeach i know this will never happen). Solution? Idk, get all crusers heals and better concliment would be a start imho. 

[Miragetank90]

Graphs aside, it can't just be me who's noticed the number of DDs in game drastically increase at tier 10 only over the last few months.

 

The majority of games there recently are 4 DD per team games, at least for me. Every session, one after the other, it's actually really tiresome.

[22cm]

17 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

The majority of games there recently are 4 DD per team games, at least for me. Every session, one after the other, it's actually really tiresome.

5BBs with Deadeye, 1 CV per team with AA being a joke, makes playing cruisers difficult. Unless it s the vodka-induced dreams RU cruisers.