At this point why not just make missons for random battles that gives steel?

[leonport]

If we are giving out steel to very bad players for just winning games in ranked without even progressing why not just make steel missons for randoms?

i hate ranked game mode and the only reason i play it because it gives me steel, at this point why not just make missons for randoms that gives steel?

Even a bot with 39% winrate can get 600+ steel from ranked every 2 weeks, whats the point of it? If its not skill based why not give steel for people for just playing random battles?

at least before ranked rework bad players couldn'T get many steel out of ranked, but now as i said anyone can farm steel from it.

 

So why make people like me who hate the game mode grind for steel in it when you could just do the same in random battles which is way for me is more fun to play

 

And if you would do that people who actually wanna progress in the game mode don't have to play with mindless bots or trolls who just wanna get out that 600+ steel every 2 weeks out.

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, leonport said:

And if you would do that people who actually wanna progress in the game mode don't have to play with mindless bots or trolls who just wanna get out that 600+ steel every 2 weeks out.

 

You really think they would stop playing ranked?

You just gave them a reason to get 600 steel + X ontop! So even more reason for botting These people "play" 200-300 games per week, im sure they can devide that between 2 gamemodes to get the best from everything.

 

But one more thing:

WG thinks, everyone should be able to get everything, regardless of skill level. Thus, we now get steel for spamming games, so that xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69_xXx can get his Stalingrad. Im sure they received a lot of complaints over the years, because only good players could get steel ships, and thats unfair or whatever.

[Yedwy]

16 minutes ago, leonport said:

at this point why not just make missons for randoms that gives steel?

You already have that its called daily missions m8, not a lot of steel but still if one farms it somewhat regurarly you can get around 1000 steel per month just by playing Randoms or even coop meaning within 2-3 years its a T10 steel ship for doing literaly nothing extra

[Gnirf]

1 hour ago, leonport said:

If we are giving out steel to very bad players for just winning games in ranked without even progressing why not just make steel missons for randoms?

i hate ranked game mode and the only reason i play it because it gives me steel, at this point why not just make missons for randoms that gives steel?

Even a bot with 39% winrate can get 600+ steel from ranked every 2 weeks, whats the point of it? If its not skill based why not give steel for people for just playing random battles?

at least before ranked rework bad players couldn'T get many steel out of ranked, but now as i said anyone can farm steel from it.

 

So why make people like me who hate the game mode grind for steel in it when you could just do the same in random battles which is way for me is more fun to play

 

And if you would do that people who actually wanna progress in the game mode don't have to play with mindless bots or trolls who just wanna get out that 600+ steel every 2 weeks out.

Sort of what Yedwy says.

But better look at ranked as randoms where you personally have greater influence (1 of 7 instead of 1 of 12 players) and as only wins matters for the steel playing for win if the goal is to get steel is actually better than you might think.

Bots are more in the hands of WG to do something about not the gamemode in itself. 

 

You also in general choose ships that you perform in and are not subject to -2 MM. 

 

I play for 9 wins in bronze leaugue - and I do play for the win but if i end at 5th or 4th rank or whatever is not much concern to me at least. That helps keep you sane.

 

I played in the same manner in old ranked , down to 10-12 or so depending on time so i usually got good rewards vs effort.

 

Naturally I am way behind in steel ships, have only 3 so far, but I have never resorted to spamming ranked. 

 

[Molly_Delaney]

I agree with missions for steel, perhaps something like 500BXP at each tier in one line?

Would also encourage lower tier play.

 

[urr027]

Isn’t there an easy solution to the bots problem in ranked? Just don’t give the rewards for win in case the player does not get at least, say, 800 XP in the game? I think bots rarely get over 500 or so?

[HMS_Kilinowski]

Ranked is dead.

 

It's the simple truth.

The rank is irrelevant as the rewards are given for wins. They tested it with the first 1v1 duel season versus the second 1v1 season. Ranked has lost all its competitive element, if it ever even had such. It has always been a mode rewarding endurance and punishing team play. A team game requires a collective responsibility, while all modes but Clan Battles support a selfish agenda. Ranked has failed by design. It's now just an excuse for another way of drip feeding the addicts.

 

2 hours ago, leonport said:

So why make people like me who hate the game mode grind for steel in it when you could just do the same in random battles which is way for me is more fun to play

 

inb4 some super correct person will tell you that you are not forced to get the ressources and that it's your choice to play the mode or leave it.

 

[lovelacebeer]

I deliberately only play in bronze to just collect some quick resources, it always seems way too stressful pushing hard to try getting up into the higher leagues. I’m here to have fun not hate it as I grind away.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

More to the point, why not devalue steel for good and introduce YAIGC (yet another in-game currency)?!

[rage1750]

4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Thus, we now get steel for spamming games, so that xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69_xXx can get his Stalingrad.

 

As soon as I saw that name, I just knew in my heart that someone would have it.

I was really disappointed when I could not find xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69_xXx in the players list... 

There is no xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69-420_xXx out there either.  

 

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined 

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, rage1750 said:

 

As soon as I saw that name, I just knew in my heart that someone would have it.

I was really disappointed when I could not find xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69_xXx in the players list... 

There is no xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69-420_xXx out there either.  

 

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined 

 

 

Closest one i could find.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 6 Minuten, rage1750 sagte:

I was really disappointed when I could not find xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69_xXx in the players list...

How does "STRIX_RTX3080Ti" grab you?

Sure takes the cake for the BY FAR comically dumbest nick I've seen.

[rage1750]

8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

Closest one i could find.

I already have an idea of what to expect here. 

 

EDIT...  I was wrong, just Coop.

 

2 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

How does "STRIX_RTX3080Ti" grab you?

Sure takes the cake for the BY FAR comically dumbest nick I've seen.

 

For some reason this makes rage1750 smile 

[Shagulon]

They killed anything that made ranked special. Now it’s just 18 wins and stop.

[ghostbuster_]

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69_xXx 

If i change my nickname someday, this is going to be the one im gonna choose 

[Miscommunication_dept]

1 hour ago, Shagulon said:

They killed anything that made ranked special. Now it’s just 18 wins and stop.

That's exactly what I do but i might not rank to gold next time

[SkollUlfr]

because people like yourself keep clinging to ranked and kots as an excuse to say this game is capable of supporting competitive play, when its utterly broken and increasingly pay-to-win.

 

should wg drop the pretence, it would undermine the credibility of the game to people who think they arent being wallet warriors with their 'meta' ships and paid captain perks, and result in loss of custom from those rpging as competitive gamers.

[Shagulon]

11 hours ago, SkollUlfr said:

because people like yourself keep clinging to ranked and kots as an excuse to say this game is capable of supporting competitive play, when its utterly broken and increasingly pay-to-win.

 

should wg drop the pretence, it would undermine the credibility of the game to people who think they arent being wallet warriors with their 'meta' ships and paid captain perks, and result in loss of custom from those rpging as competitive gamers.

And yet those same people outplay in tech tree ships too...

[Figment]

22 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

But one more thing:

WG thinks, everyone should be able to get everything, regardless of skill level. Thus, we now get steel for spamming games, so that xXx_BISMARCKSNIPER69_xXx can get his Stalingrad. Im sure they received a lot of complaints over the years, because only good players could get steel ships, and thats unfair or whatever.

Any reason they should not get steel ships then?

 

 

It's just grind-speed we're talking about here. It'd be for good and bad clan wars players alike otherwise, we're not talking about exclusivity. Ranked as is, is not designed to be exclusive either, given it's a matter of ranking out speed rather than pure skill (and sure, some people won't progress, but most will eventually as they will eventually end up fighting a group of players of similarly bad skill in ranked). Ranked as is can at most be used to create an efficiency list of players: who is done in the fewest games and with the most effective scores? Beyond that it's just an alternative randoms game mode for smaller amounts of players at a time, giving it a little bit different gameplay dynamic than randoms. Ranked bronze/silver/gold access would have to get an overhaul based on win rates in randoms (X% of top performing players over the previous month or so) if you want this to change, but that could cut up the playerbase in a way that could not guarantee quick matchmaking if they play at different hours or the pop has dwindled too far.

 

Remember that good players who play in Clan Wars just get these ships first, as has always been the case, as they have additional steel incomes. Good players who are without clan were severely disadvantaged in the steel grind though (and still are in contrast to people playing Clan Wars). I'm a slightly above average player without a clan and I haven't got enough steel to buy even a single ship. What matters is how often you play, as it always has. As such, bad players are going to be in every tier, whether in steel, coal, premium or tech tree units. What ship they're in doesn't matter one bit, because they will get outplayed. Trying to restrict ships in some fashion is just senseless elitist entitlement.

 

- senseless because it's never been just for good (clan wars) players (daily missions provide a minor amount of steel as well, as do certain other event game modes and randoms missions)

- elitist entitlement because some people think it's fine that others can't get something, even if they have to grind WAAAY longer for it due to being bad and thus ultimately put way more time and effort in it since they can't fart through these steel attaining missions as well as good (clanned) players can.

 

 

I know there are those who like to look down on other people with a worse grasp of the game, but ffs people, grow a pair and stop whining that "the plebs" are in this game too and get similar toys to you (slower)! Instead of seeing it as your personal game and playground where others have not earned the rights to play with or against you, accept the reality that this game is designed for everyone, thus everyone is eligible to play the game and ultimately can get the ships of their choice. Wargaming makes free to play games with a natural grind progression to the top where progression (except for speed) has NEVER been based on or limited to skill. So why in the world would anyone be annoyed by people getting steel ships - that can still easily be killed by other units playing well regardless of the stalinium ship hulls involved - after probably many months to years of grind, where you get those things way faster and thus more of them?

 

 

[DFens_666]

13 minutes ago, Figment said:

Any reason they should not get steel ships then?

 

The difference is, they dont want to put in any effort (see those people who are playing like bots in ranked). They feel entitled to get everything anyone else has, but they dont want to earn it. If anyone should get anything with minimal effort, then WG might aswell just sell the ships in the premium shop. That would be much better than letting them ruin games in ranked because they are just yoloing for the steel.

 

The other problem i see is, that many steel ships were designed in a way, that they werent easy to play or require a specific playstyle. So the premise to get those ships should be: Get better first to be able to get the steel and then get the ship.

[Figment]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

The difference is, they dont want to put in any effort (see those people who are playing like bots in ranked). They feel entitled to get everything anyone else has, but they dont want to earn it.

I'm glad you havn't made strawman stereotypes of people to project your grievances and own sense of entitlement with regards to who should have access to pixel ships on and why they should want them.

Quote

If anyone should get anything with minimal effort, then WG might aswell just sell the ships in the premium shop.

Define minimal effort. I don't think the picture you've got in your mind is anywhere near accurate of how efficient these people are at grinding steel. ie. not. If they yolo every match, they likely won't win much. They might get there at the end of the week, but that means they won't be in randoms while you're long done with ranking out, so your experience there should improve in the meantime.

Quote

That would be much better than letting them ruin games in ranked because they are just yoloing for the steel.

Are they yoloing for steel, or are they just that bad? So far I've seen mostly the exact same behaviour as people have in randoms, just that a bad player sticks out worse because their mistakes are always somewhere within sight of you due to the smaller map and because the impact of losing them is more significantly felt as they're a larger percentage of the team.

 

Otherwise, I hardly see anything worse than early star saving (where damage farming often is done by otherwise good players with a mod to show them win probability as well who start "mitigation" from the start of the match).

Quote

The other problem i see is, that many steel ships were designed in a way, that they werent easy to play or require a specific playstyle. So the premise to get those ships should be: Get better first to be able to get the steel and then get the ship.

Or they should have the tool to be able to practice and get good with it when it has a specific gameplay...

 

I really don't care if they practice in a steel ship or a coal ship or a premium, they'll likely perform bad anyway and they'll be in any tier game anyway.

 

What you define as "should" is not how the game is designed. There is no link between skill and acquisition of units and never has been. There's only a link between amount of grind and acquisition of any unit. Steel acquisition is not linked to skill either. At most you could argue that you are more effective at grinding steel missions, so you can maybe get more ships in the same time span, but it has never been limited to you and you should really get over that entitlement chip on your shoulder. Why can't you be content with having more steel ships due to being a more effective grinder?

 

Why the jealousy?

[GarrusBrutus]

22 minutes ago, Figment said:

I'm glad you havn't made strawman stereotypes of people to project your grievances and own sense of entitlement with regards to who should have access to pixel ships on and why they should want them.

-> "Otherwise, I hardly see anything worse than early star saving (where damage farming often is done by otherwise good players with a mod to show them win probability as well who start "mitigation" from the start of the match)."

nice pot and kettle there buddy. Good players often use mods? They often damage farm to save their star? 

24 minutes ago, Figment said:

Define minimal effort. I don't think the picture you've got in your mind is anywhere near accurate of how efficient these people are at grinding steel. ie. not. If they yolo every match, they likely won't win much. They might get there at the end of the week, but that means they won't be in randoms while you're long done with ranking out, so your experience there should improve in the meantime.

You get steel for wins. Winrate and progress doesnt matter. You can't drop back from any league either so even if you afk hundreds of games in a row you'll get the rewards up until R1 rewards. If you practice the tactic "yolo and die, next match, rinse and repeat" you can pump out hundreds of games per day more in comparison to players who try to actually play the game. Their winrates will be atrocious but in regards to time/rewards, i doubt its way worse. And even if it is worse, the mental burden with this "approach" is probably zero.

I'm not advocating elitism, im simply against the abililty to farm rewards by botting as it ruins the game experience for regular players, both good and bad.

29 minutes ago, Figment said:

Are they yoloing for steel, or are they just that bad?

Both as they arent mutually exclusive. And its ridiculous and almost game breaking that this is even possible but sadly that is how the gamemode is designed with its starsaving and safe ranks. 

41 minutes ago, Figment said:

Steel acquisition is not linked to skill either.

You're missing the point. This whole thing isnt about steel acquisition. Its about ranked being full of leeches who use the aforementioned tactic. Its making ranked unbearable for regular players since it is becoming less and less a test of personal skill  but more a lottery whose team contains less leechers.

[Figment]

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

-> "Otherwise, I hardly see anything worse than early star saving (where damage farming often is done by otherwise good players with a mod to show them win probability as well who start "mitigation" from the start of the match)."

nice pot and kettle there buddy. Good players often use mods? They often damage farm to save their star? 

Eh, when they make comments to that effect in response to questions why they're sailing in the opposite direction of the objective from start...

 

 

Big difference though? I don't pretend there's a lack of rights to resources.

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

You get steel for wins. Winrate and progress doesnt matter. You can't drop back from any league either so even if you afk hundreds of games in a row you'll get the rewards up until R1 rewards. If you practice the tactic "yolo and die, next match, rinse and repeat" you can pump out hundreds of games per day more in comparison to players who try to actually play the game. Their winrates will be atrocious but in regards to time/rewards, i doubt its way worse. And even if it is worse, the mental burden with this "approach" is probably zero.

That's possible as a method of grind, but should we care enough about those few individuals to deny other people a chance at steel ships too? If you want to burn this specific form of grinding, there are ways to deal with that. Like if average time in battle is too short on average to be realistic for someone trying, adding time-outs for the mode.

 

And how often do you encounter these anyway? I hardly think it's a big deal, one hardly encounters AFK players or yolo'ers. Some DDs will lose the initial engagement (often due to lack of support where the opposite team did move up as a group), some cruisers will get dev struck, but most times people just play (poorly).. A bigger detrimental issue in my experience seems to be people either with a "brilliant plan" that ends up with them sitting circled on one cap with the entire team from the start of the match, or a general lack of coordination and cooperation.

 

Do we need to punish everyone for this specific form of system abuse, or simply correct the system?

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

I'm not advocating elitism, im simply against the abililty to farm rewards by botting as it ruins the game experience for regular players, both good and bad.

Hence it seems we're agreed, but some people don't want any kind of reward to be in it for people who either don't have the time to rank out or don't have the skill to rank out.

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Both as they arent mutually exclusive. And its ridiculous and almost game breaking that this is even possible but sadly that is how the gamemode is designed with its starsaving and safe ranks. 

Star saving (or losing) among some other design elements should not exist as it provides incentives for selfish, non-objective play. The problem is that WG tried to compromise between those who want ranked to be for elites and those who want to grind to the top rank for the highest rewards, without it being a competition based on end results of the competition, but instead basically the amount of time required to play to get to the end.

 

But that's been WG's vision for a succesful game mode since WoT, where success is defined by average player time in game, burning resources and making money. It's never been Wargaming's primary goal to make their games into an e-sport competition where you work your way up the skill leagues and keep people play their own skill levels. There's simply not enough guaranteeable in-game population for this anyway.

 

You're never going to completely stop yolo'ing as it's the way some people simply play, due to skill or due to living without any regard to what's in the benefit of the team (and thus ultimately oneself). IMO the game could be a lot teamwork friendlier, but hey. :/

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

You're missing the point. This whole thing isnt about steel acquisition. Its about ranked being full of leeches who use the aforementioned tactic. Its making ranked unbearable for regular players since it is becoming less and less a test of personal skill  but more a lottery whose team contains less leechers.

I'm not missing the point, it's been explicitly suggested by some people in this thread that steel acquisition is the reason for these people to play this mode, but my response there was to some people subsequently suggesting that steel ships aren't supposed to be earned by the "lesser" players and should be reserved for the elite who know what to do with them.

[DFens_666]

3 hours ago, Figment said:

Why the jealousy?

some people subsequently suggesting that steel ships aren't supposed to be earned by the "lesser" players and should be reserved for the elite who know what to do with them.

 

Yep, thats why i said, WG should sell those ships for money

I see this still as a game, which is supposed to be fun at first. But sadly, too many people see this as some sort of FOMO-Collecting-Workmode, where they hunt one carrot after the other, and thus ruining the game.

 

1 hour ago, Figment said:

I hardly think it's a big deal, one hardly encounters AFK players or yolo'ers.

 

Id say like 1 per game on average? Thats pretty much in my book.

Or how do you call people, that sail in a straighline till they just die? Thats not bad play, thats botting/yoloing/suiciding. And you cant tell me, that they have fun doing that, its clearly only to collect steel. Afterall, those people still gt 30-40% WR. People who put in the effort are looking at 60-70%, rarely up to 80% if they club in bronze. So with 80% WR, i need to play 15 games to get 12 wins on average. Someone with 35% WR needs 34 games. Ofc this sounds like a significant difference, but if we look at the time investment, i doubt its much of a difference. If the yoloer dies within 3 minutes, he can play atleast 3-4 or even 5 games in the same time as I. But lets take very minimum here, say i need to play 15 mins on average, and he 5 (which is way too much), then he can do three times the amount of games i need to do. And, oh wonder, 15 x 3 = 45, which is way more than his 34 games needed. And he doesnt have to worry one bit what he is doing. He can watch TV at the same time.

 

- Faster

- Not exhausting

- doesnt have to deal with stupid teammates

- Same reward

How is this not a good deal?

[VedranSeaWolf359]

I Personally don't play ranked for steel I play it because it have more calm gameplay where you probably don't die on begin of match which often happen to me in random if I decide to follow wrong pack of players. I hate when in randoms everyone start to shot you from almost every side this produce lot a stress to me. + Ranked is better for grinding XP. also I playing for fun not for rank.