Datamined Dutch cruiser armor

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

 

[Kartoffelmos]

Not sure if the embedding got messed up or if the ships have so thin armour that you see right through them .

 

They do indeed have good armour layouts which makes me wonder why the airmail gimmick was needed.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

11 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Not sure if the embedding got messed up or if the ships have so thin armour that you see right through them .

 

They do indeed have good armour layouts which makes me wonder why the airmail gimmick was needed.

Sales.

[invicta2012]

12 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

They do indeed have good armour layouts which makes me wonder why the airmail gimmick was needed.

No torpedoes. 

 

Haarlem (the Tier VIII) looks like a no-torp Drake / Hipper hybrid - some decent CA armour going on there.

[Kartoffelmos]

2 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Sales.

 

I don't know... do you really think that splitting up the 3% of the playerbase that makes up the CV population is such a good idea?  

 

1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

No torpedoes. 

 

Yes, I know that they will act as a torpedo replacement of sorts. However, I do question how WG will balance it considering the armour of the ships. If it for instance is too effective against cruisers (high enough penetration, low reaction time, etc.) it will be really annoying to play against these ships. On the other hand, if the reaction time is reasonably long, it will be mostly suited against battleships. However, given the armour scheme (and the usual pandering to the class), I guess the effectiveness won't be too high.

 

If I'm being cynical, I will predict that WG will promote them as anti-BB weapons but due to the lack of penetrating power of the bombs (just guessing here), the weapon group will punish cruisers the most, similar to the Pan-Asian deep-water torpedoes.

[Pururut]

Sidetracking but if Wargaming retains or buffs the AA on Zeven Provincien, I am totally buying it. Was undecided between Tiger and Zeven but that layered armor broke the tie. Hopefully we will get more ships from the 50s. 

[invicta2012]

6 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

However, I do question how WG will balance it considering the armour of the ships

Dispersion, so I understand. If you take the current RN CV carpet bombing mechanic and double the area over which the bombs fall, you'll see the idea. Cruisers will have a chance to dodge, as will smaller BBs - it's those fat Freddies which might have a problem. 

[invicta2012]

1 minute ago, Pururut said:

Hopefully we will get more ships from the 50s. 

Tiger '53, De Zeven Provincien, Sverdlov, Kutuzov, Worcester... is there much left that doesn't have guided missiles? 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

25 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

 

I don't know... do you really think that splitting up the 3% of the playerbase that makes up the CV population is such a good idea?  

 

Gimmick -> Sales. Not only carrier players will pick this one up. 

[Pururut]

55 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Tiger '53, De Zeven Provincien, Sverdlov, Kutuzov, Worcester... is there much left that doesn't have guided missiles? 

 

Briefly skimmed over Conways; only Skoriy, Surcouf and Kotlin remain. You are right, there aint much else to add from 50s.

[lafeel]

46 minutes ago, Pururut said:

only Skoriy

*cough*Silliwangi*cough*

 

EDIT: also you forgot a couple the Split and the Impetuoso class

[KillStealBoss]

Heavy RN cruiser line :  *mad screaming* 

[Animalul2012]

Dont forget that they burn for 60 seconds so a same tier cruiser will have a field day against them!

[invicta2012]

6 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Heavy RN cruiser line :  *mad screaming* 

I'm very much in favour of the way this Dutch line progresses. The Brits would be better regarded if there was something closer to Drake at Tier VIII - Bigger, heavier armour, less prone to overmatch - than the uber glass cannon of Albemarle. 

 

7 hours ago, Pururut said:

Briefly skimmed over Conways; only Skoriy, Surcouf and Kotlin remain. You are right, there aint much else to add from 50s.

I forgot Mysore and Nuevo De Julio. 

 

I will be interested to see how the Airstrike mechanism works on these Dutch cruisers, because if it works I can't see any reason why the US Boston Class missile cruisers couldn't make an appearance. It's basically a Baltimore with the rear turrets removed and a guided missile system installed instead. If that's an occasional area denial weapon rather than a precision strike, it might be quite interesting. 

 

There are, of course, several interesting pure-gun designs for South American navies in the late 40s and 50s which could be added, too. 

[Onsterfelijke]

8 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Tiger '53, De Zeven Provincien, Sverdlov, Kutuzov, Worcester... is there much left that doesn't have guided missiles? 

De Zeven Provinciën got his missels only in the sixties (1962 finished in 1964) Tartar system before that it opperated guns only, The Sistership (de Ruyter)never got this upgrade. In the eighties they were upgraded to that era even got Exocet missels.

 

So the ship is good to use in game

[Onsterfelijke]

9 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Not sure if the embedding got messed up or if the ships have so thin armour that you see right through them .

 

They do indeed have good armour layouts which makes me wonder why the airmail gimmick was needed.

If you see the original designs they took their lessons very well when visiting the Germans and Italians. So the the line has it all Tier1-5 CL cruisers, teir 6-7 the CA and the teir 8-10 battlecruisers based on the Scharnhorst Improved but lighter.

 

So why the Land base airstrike ?  It's their guns those are a bit on the weak side and they don't have torps. And the Dutch used landbased CV's (Islands) a lot and i find it good that they give it a historical feel in game.

 

The planes are very weak what i saw on the Video and very short range (max 10km) That means as cruiser you have to really get close to BB to use them so very dangerous for the Dutch ships. The airstrike doesn't anything on moving DD, cruisers or fast BB so only campers and CV's?

[Fat_Maniac]

10 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Not sure if the embedding got messed up or if the ships have so thin armour that you see right through them .

 

They do indeed have good armour layouts which makes me wonder why the airmail gimmick was needed.

You need to be 10Km from your target to use the air drop, I guess the armour is too allow you to work your way in.

[SV_Kompresor]

10 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Not sure if the embedding got messed up or if the ships have so thin armour that you see right through them .

 

They do indeed have good armour layouts which makes me wonder why the airmail gimmick was needed.

Probably because they're testing it. I'm almost certain that they'll remove it and add it to hybrids.

[CastorTolagi]

Vor 1 Stunde, Fat_Maniac sagte:

You need to be 10Km from your target to use the air drop, I guess the armour is too allow you to work your way in.

goes up to 12km for T10.

And thats pretty good when you consider how long the Torp range on most cruiser is.

[BruceRKF]

I like the idea of having tanky cruisers in the game, although the Italians should have had some of those already, imo (e.g. Zara-class). Problem is that "small" battleship guns, to which you have to count 406 mm guns by now, are getting powercrept even more, with so many newer BBs having 457 mm guns. As for the airstrike gimmick: initially not a fan of the concept, but I will reserve my judgement for now until we can see tests.

[Onsterfelijke]

2 hours ago, BruceRKF said:

I like the idea of having tanky cruisers in the game, although the Italians should have had some of those already, imo (e.g. Zara-class). Problem is that "small" battleship guns, to which you have to count 406 mm guns by now, are getting powercrept even more, with so many newer BBs having 457 mm guns. As for the airstrike gimmick: initially not a fan of the concept, but I will reserve my judgement for now until we can see tests.

You can't take control of the planes so they will atleast going to be hit by flak so i wonder if they survive enough to get a drop off.

[GaCommanderGice]

That 7 Provincieen! Just wow!
What a beauty
Can't wait till i can sail her around.
And a whole Dutch line, which is just the best thing that ever happend to me in Wows personally :)

[Figment]

 

Did you also data mine premium camos like this one? :)

[Onsterfelijke]

37 minutes ago, Figment said:

 

Did you also data mine premium camos like this one? :)

oh sponsored by Heineken cool! GOUDEN LEEUW = Golden Lion only is that not the english lion?

[Figment]

17 minutes ago, Onsterfelijke said:

GOUDEN LEEUW = Golden Lion only is that not the english lion?

Climbing lions are used in heraldry throughout Western Europe. They differ in minor details and by having say a different number of lions on the coat of arms. :)

 

Golden lions were in very common use. The British (royal heraldry) tend to have three lions underneath one another, usualy in a stretched horizontal position clawing at the viewer. The Dutch one often has a couple of symbols like a sword in the upper hand and a bunch of arrows in the lower hand.
 

Edit: The one I used was a generic more modern looking abstraction, could have gone with a KNVB one ofc. :) But in that case since a ship is a she, I probably should have gone with the lioness one. :P

Dutch Republic:

But it's not always used, like for the coat of arms of Amsterdam and Rotterdam: