Fire damage on ( German vs French bb's )

[goodnames_gone]

hi guys 

i did some comparisons
n  my favorite lines the German bb's line and the French bb's line which one lose HP by fires and i'm not too much good at this so if i'm wrong ..i hope you correct me 

before i was thinking the French battleships lose too much and burn faster than the Germans  but after i did this comparisons using captain skills (  basics of survivability + fire prevention ) +  india yankee flag for all ships 

 t 8 ( richelieu vs bismarck ) - t 9 ( alsace vs frederick de grosse  )  - at least t 10 ( republique vs großer kurfürst ) 

get same result with every tier .. the French bb's ( DPS and the total damage per fire ) less than the German bb's 

so the German bb's when they get set at fire they burn more & faster and they lose more HP  than the French bb's 

kinda disappoint 

again ..if I'm wrong ...i will love that you corrected to me 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

Fire damage is percental damage. The more Hitpoints a ship has, the more absolute damage it gets.

Considering that repair is done in percentage too, the absolute difference does not really matter, as you will usually repair the fire damage that way.

[goodnames_gone]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

Fire damage is percental damage. The more Hitpoints a ship has, the more absolute damage it gets.

Considering that repair is done in percentage too, the absolute difference does not really matter, as you will usually repair the fire damage that way.

so more HP pool ..more damage i get ..is that what you say ?? 

German bb's has bigger HP than the French ..they both get set at fire easy i know that ..but which one has a bigger chance to stay alive when they get set in fire ( for sure with using repair party wisely ) 

cuz when i use German bb's with HE spammers focus i feel I'm out of game more faster than the French ...even the French has 32 mm armor less 

but i stay more logger at the game 

idk maybe its personal feeling 

[ForlornSailor]

10 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

so more HP pool ..more damage i get ..is that what you say ?? 

 

Yes and No.

 

Lets imagine a situation where a BB with low health pool (lets say Jean Bart) faces a low caliber DD, that only shoots your belt (so does not deal any direct damage). Then you change the Jean Bart with a Kurfürst, which has way more health.

In both situations, if you take only fire damage, both BBs will die at the exact same moment, after the exact same numbers of fires. It doesnt even matter how much you healed, because that is also connected to your maximum health and is percentage based - only expections are ships with improved heals, like RN BBs or Iowa f.e.

[DFens_666]

12 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

.they both get set at fire easy i know that

Same as any other T10 BB

 

12 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

..but which one has a bigger chance to stay alive when they get set in fire

Still the same. If you lose 18% per fire with GK or with Repu, than both die the exact same moment.

 

13 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

cuz when i use German bb's with HE spammers focus i feel I'm out of game more faster than the French

 

German ships have bigger superstructure so they are quite easy to hit. Even if the French only have 32mm of armor, doesnt mean that all HE shells will pen that.

Or maybe you simply dont die to HE spam, but receive massive damage from BB AP. Too many players think they die to fire/HE spam, but in reality they lose a lot of HP to BB AP.

[herrjott]

Fire damage on BBs is always 0.3% of your total HP per second. So a full duration 60 second fire will cost 18% of your total HP, no matter if you are in a 31k HP Mikasa or a 108k HP Kremlin. The time to burn to death would be the same, when you do not repair anything and the only difference is the amount of other damage you take. So maybe you play your French BBs further away and take less hits.

[goodnames_gone]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

German ships have bigger superstructure so they are quite easy to hit. Even if the French only have 32mm of armor, doesnt mean that all HE shells will pen that.

Or maybe you simply dont die to HE spam, but receive massive damage from BB AP. Too many players think they die to fire/HE spam, but in reality they lose a lot of HP to BB AP.

no...sure was HE mate ....when i use German bb's i feel like BBQ party get set on my head ( my ship i mean :D )

 i get same BBQ some times on French too ..but with German's ..feel u can not run ..u can not turn ..you can not even push ..just die ..so the mistake not forgivable 

in the French ..i turn on my speed boots and try to get away ..hide ..or get dark ..heal and back to fight 

the BBQ party sooo  deferent between the two ships    

[Panocek]

Or your German BB is having secondary build because "muh secondaries", therefore burn brighter due to not having tank build

[totally_potato]

57 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

hi guys 

i did some comparisons
n  my favorite lines the German bb's line and the French bb's line which one lose HP by fires and i'm not too much good at this so if i'm wrong ..i hope you correct me 

before i was thinking the French battleships lose too much and burn faster than the Germans  but after i did this comparisons using captain skills (  basics of survivability + fire prevention ) +  india yankee flag for all ships 

 t 8 ( richelieu vs bismarck ) - t 9 ( alsace vs frederick de grosse  )  - at least t 10 ( republique vs großer kurfürst ) 

get same result with every tier .. the French bb's ( DPS and the total damage per fire ) less than the German bb's 

so the German bb's when they get set at fire they burn more & faster and they lose more HP  than the French bb's 

kinda disappoint 

again ..if I'm wrong ...i will love that you corrected to me 

 

 

the fire dmg is percentage based.

Let's take an example of Bourgogne and Kremlin (Both have the Lowest and Highest HP for a BB)

Bourgogne

Kremlin

 

You can see here that Bourgogne is taking less dmg compared to Kremlin in fires. But here's the thing. The HP is way less, and one fire deals 18% of the ships total HP. So it doesn't matter who takes more dmg through fires. The effectiveness of HP will be 18% less than your total HP through one fire. 

No one is tankier against fires just coz you have less or more HP. That HP really works against tanking clean straightforward dmg from shells. Yes Kremlin will take less dmg from one fire than any other ship coz its base HP is larger, but it's still 18% of its HP gone like the rest.

74700-13466 = 61234

108300-19494 = 88806

 

I hope it's clear now

 

[goodnames_gone]

Just now, Panocek said:

Or your German BB is having secondary build because "muh secondary's", therefore burn brighter due to not having tank build

oh ...maybe !!! but Germans bb's without secondary's ..what kind of fun of that !!! if there is no secondary's why i use them from first place ..i will use the French or try other bb's 

the German bb's without secondary's build like pepsi cola without soda :D no taste no meaning 

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, goodnames_gone said:

German bb's has bigger HP than the French ..they both get set at fire easy i know that ..but which one has a bigger chance to stay alive when they get set in fire ( for sure with using repair party wisely )  

It makes no difference as they have the same repair.

Lion and Conq have a special repair and it is easier for them to deal with fire damage.

 

The real differnce is the armor and how much the armor can shatter HE. 

[goodnames_gone]

7 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

the fire dmg is percentage based.

Let's take an example of Bourgogne and Kremlin (Both have the Lowest and Highest HP for a BB)

Bourgogne

Kremlin

 

You can see here that Bourgogne is taking less dmg compared to Kremlin in fires. But here's the thing. The HP is way less, and one fire deals 18% of the ships total HP. So it doesn't matter who takes more dmg through fires. The effectiveness of HP will be 18% less than your total HP through one fire. 

No one is tankier against fires just coz you have less or more HP. That HP really works against tanking clean straightforward dmg from shells. Yes Kremlin will take less dmg from one fire than any other ship coz its base HP is larger, but it's still 18% of its HP gone like the rest.

74700-13466 = 61234

108300-19494 = 88806

 

I hope it's clear now

 

yup i get the idea mate ..thanks for ur time and effort 

the Germans not much good at long range and hard to push for short ranges now ( situations ships right now )  ..plus every thing can pen them whatever 

 the French with them range and speed and them boots more fixable this days vs the new mata  i think 

[goodnames_gone]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

The real difference is the armor and how much the armor can shatter HE. 

the French armor shatter HE more ?? less pens than German's  !!! 

[Panocek]

14 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

oh ...maybe !!! but Germans bb's without secondary's ..what kind of fun of that !!! if there is no secondary's why i use them from first place ..i will use the French or try other bb's 

the German bb's without secondary's build like pepsi cola without soda :D no taste no meaning 

This is part where you embrace fact WG don't want you to have effective secondaries, due to nerf to Secondary accuracy skill. Don't like it? Don't play it, screeching won't fix anything.

[goodnames_gone]

Just now, Panocek said:

This is part where you embrace fact WG don't want you to have effective secondaries, due to nerf to Secondary accuracy skill. Don't like it? Don't play it, screeching won't fix anything.

disappointing fact indeed plus the German's guns at long ranges not one of the best's ..the German's guns accuracy are famous 

so unfortunately I know at the end ..i waste time and effort and tons of exp on line end up with situational  ships ..they are fun to play but most of time end up with frustration

thank u mate for the info and thank you all 

[ColonelPete]

13 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

the French armor shatter HE more ?? less pens than German's  !!! 

No. German BB have a thicker plating 

[totally_potato]

17 hours ago, goodnames_gone said:

yup i get the idea mate ..thanks for ur time and effort 

the Germans not much good at long range and hard to push for short ranges now ( situations ships right now )  ..plus every thing can pen them whatever 

 the French with them range and speed and them boots more fixable this days vs the new mata  i think 

Germans are actually fairly decent at long range with accuracy mod. At close range, it is harder especially with a map with shitty islands. If you get a good map, with great island cover that allows you to get closer, you'll get closer and be able to use those secondaries. However as a German you should lead the charge of your team, not charge alone, or get into the weaker zones of the enemy and crush them. Alternatively, you can hold a flank push with your secondaries, armor and HP, as the firing angles are great backwards and with all the strengths, you can hold the push pretty well (atleast with FDG and GK). And everything damages Germans becoz of the superstructure, which is an issue. French are in a worse position coz they have nothing going for them mostly. 

[goodnames_gone]

4 hours ago, totally_potato said:

Germans are actually fairly decent at long range with accuracy mod. At close range, it is harder especially with a map with shitty islands. If you get a good map, with great island cover that allows you to get closer, you'll get closer and be able to use those secondaries. However as a German you should lead the charge of your team, not charge alone, or get into the weaker zones of the enemy and crush them. Alternatively, you can hold a flank push with your secondaries, armor and HP, as the firing angles are great backwards and with all the strengths, you can hold the push pretty well (atleast with FDG and GK). And everything damages Germans becoz of the superstructure, which is an issue. French are in a worse position coz they have nothing going for them mostly. 

thank you mate ..one thing i need to ask about it about FDG and GK...some of the guys advice me to take IFHE on FDG & pommern  ...the idea do decent damage more better than doing fires by the sec guns ..if that sooo ..so why they do not use it on GK too ??? 

[DFens_666]

34 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

thank you mate ..one thing i need to ask about it about FDG and GK...some of the guys advice me to take IFHE on FDG & pommern  ...the idea do decent damage more better than doing fires by the sec guns ..if that sooo ..so why they do not use it on GK too ??? 

 

Because GK has bigger secondaries - 128 and 150mm. The other german ships (except Gneisenau) have 105 and 150mm secondaries. 105mm can pen 26, while 128mm can pen 32mm of armor. With IFHE, 105mm secondaries will also pen 32mm.

27+30+32mm are very important thresholds, because Cruisers have 27 and 30mm of armor on certain parts, while BBs have 32mm or more.

So GK doesnt need IFHE, it already has enough penetration. You basicly just make your performance worse by reducing your firechance.

[goodnames_gone]

6 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

You basicly just make your performance worse by reducing your firechance.

you mean if i did it on  GK ..or FDG & pommern in generally ?? 

[totally_potato]

24 minutes ago, goodnames_gone said:

thank you mate ..one thing i need to ask about it about FDG and GK...some of the guys advice me to take IFHE on FDG & pommern  ...the idea do decent damage more better than doing fires by the sec guns ..if that sooo ..so why they do not use it on GK too ??? 

The FDG has 150mm secondaries that pin 38mm armor, so it pins all vital parts a secondary gun usually hits. However it also have 105mm guns that are good against DDs, CLs and some heavy cruiser bow and stern. It pins the superstructure of BBs but pretty much nothing else on a high tier BB. With IFHE, you get the 105mm secondaries to pin 32mm, and that is the most significant threshold. So you effectively deal more damage as you pin more than without IFHE. And IFHE is a two pointer and FDG turret traverse is decent anyway. It does mess with the fire chance tho but overall you'll deal good damage. On GK and Gneisenau B hull, you pin 32mm armor with all your secondaries as with GK you have one less 150mm turret to get a bunch of 128mm uns that pin 32mm base anyway, which allows you deal quite a lot of damage. Gneisenau has only 128mm guns that also pin 32mm armor. For reference, the guns used are the high tier German destroyer guns (Z-23 front turret, Z-46 and Z-52 turrets). So on GK you don't need IFHE as you have the significant pin threshold baked in, and you keep the good fire chance. 

 

Remember German ships' HE shells deal less damage then same tier counter parts with same caliber. You lose that damage on paper to get better effective damage as you apply that damage more thanks to 1/4th HE pin instead of 1/6th or 1/5th.

 

[DFens_666]

Just now, goodnames_gone said:

you mean if i did it on  GK ..or FDG & pommern in generally ?? 

 

Especially on GK. On FDG/Pommern you have the tradeoff: Less fires, but more direct damage. I used IFHE Pommern in ranked, and i think its better with IFHE. Fires are always RNG heavy, even if you dont specc for IFHE. So sometimes you only get 1-2, but you can also get permafires while using IFHE.

Also, the smaller secondaries are the ones that shoot more often, so the damage will increase more than it might seem at first.

[Excavatus]

OP don't get confused and don't forget.. 

Every ship type at each tier... has the same chance to catch fire.. 

 

every tier 10 BB has the same chance to catch fire.. 

every tier 9 BB, every tier 10 Cruiser.. 

 

On base, no ship is more prone to catching fire than its counterparts.. 

Takin HE damage on the other hand, is completely different.. and depends on many things. 

[arttuperkunas]

Imagine thinking that French BBs are survivable/resistant to HE spam...

 

Literally the worst line to play at high tier in terms of HE spam. You have 32 mm plating and no British super heal, so you not only take fire damage, but actual HE pens from a lot of high tier HE spammers. What is more, everyone knows that French ships are susceptible to HE spam, so when you appear on the scopes in an Alsace or Repu, it's like ringing the dinner bell, and in seconds you get three or four yellow arcs descending on your ship like DOT piss. 

 

IMO a lot of the German BB pain is self inflicted, as you are objectively more resistant to HE spam (at least penetration damage) than a lot of other ships (due to armor plating). You get farmed because you push in too aggressively/at the wrong time, and because you run a non-tank build. As one notorious HE spammer posted some time ago, if your definition of fun is secondaries, then you must have no objection to getting farmed mercilessly by HE. Because that's what happens when you forgo a survivability build in a high tier battleship.

[goodnames_gone]

1 hour ago, arttuperkunas said:

and because you run a non-tank build. As one notorious HE spammer posted some time ago, if your definition of fun is secondaries, then you must have no objection to getting farmed mercilessly by HE. Because that's what happens when you forgo a survivability build in a high tier battleship.

so what i should do to get tanky build  ..is remove ( long range secondary + improved secondary aiming ) and take basics of survivability skill + emergency repair + ( i take fire prevention already ) and play with GK or German bb's in generally  as any normal bb's and forget that we have sec guns 

hummm, .... the German spicy flavor of the sec guns will gone...but the ship will stay alive more i think