Idea for German DD:s - old and new

[Murqy]

After watching Flamus video about the Z-31 I’m not that impressed to be honest.

 

I figured the ZF-6 was a test platform to see if the new German DDs should have reload-booster or not. Just like the Z-35 was a way of testing increased pen for the HE on German DDs, she never felt like a serious premium ship to begin with.

 

What do you guys think of these suggestions:

Give the old DD line the Italian smoke feature (to hide at full speed while deploying the same smoke consumable they have at the moment). In that way the German hydro would still be competitive to hunt other DDs and not eat so much damage while doing so. Smoke screen distribution is limited and even 6 km is not that hard to avoid for DDs to run from when they figure out what is going on.  

 

The new ones should have short fuse AP with a reload booster and the same hide in smoke feature.

 

 

[fumtu]

Why would WG change concepts of the two lines? You can forget about it. Ships of both lines could simply buffed if needed. Anything else would require extensive testing which WG would probably wish to avoid especially IF THEY THINK there is no need for it. Just buff ships that needs buffs. I don't understand why WG nerfed that ships so hard just one week before release but they should definitely do something with as this is pathetic.

[Murqy]

20 minutes ago, fumtu said:

Why would WG change concepts of the two lines? You can forget about it. Ships of both lines could simply buffed if needed. Anything else would require extensive testing which WG would probably wish to avoid especially IF THEY THINK there is no need for it. Just buff ships that needs buffs. I don't understand why WG nerfed that ships so hard just one week before release but they should definitely do something with as this is pathetic.

Because they changed the HE-pen already to make the ships more competitive. This is easy to fix and most likely a buff (the smoke feature). Would make the Z-52 competitive again and also the new line better at hunting light cruisers, which was the original idea.

[ColonelPete]

32 minutes ago, Murqy said:

Give the old DD line the Italian smoke feature (to hide at full speed while deploying the same smoke consumable they have at the moment). In that way the German hydro would still be competitive to hunt other DDs and not eat so much damage while doing so. Smoke screen distribution is limited and even 6 km is not that hard to avoid for DDs to run from when they figure out what is going on. 

That would be much too strong. Without radar to back them up, most DD would end up as food.

33 minutes ago, Murqy said:

The new ones should have short fuse AP with a reload booster and the same hide in smoke feature.

They have short fuse AP.

And reload booster with that smoke would be too strong too.

 

It was suggested in the past to give them UK DD smoke and hydro. With decent reload you could give them normal 150mm shells and not the magic bullets the Tier IX and X have.

[Murqy]

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That would be much too strong. Without radar to back them up, most DD would end up as food.

They have short fuse AP.

And reload booster with that smoke would be too strong too.

 

It was suggested in the past to give them UK DD smoke and hydro. With decent reload you could give them normal 150mm shells and not the magic bullets the Tier IX and X have.

I thought they only had improved AP- angles. Flamu seemed to get plenty over overpens trying the Z-31

 

Also, with Z-39 as the expection (and a premium that shouldnt get the buff together with the T-61)  the 5 km hydro starts at tier 8. A lot of radars already and a lot of time to escape. Remember that the DD will have to push blindly to chase the other DD into the 5 km range + the smoke distribution has to last that long also if the ship wants to be invisible all the time.

[fumtu]

1 minute ago, Murqy said:

Because they changed the HE-pen already to make the ships more competitive.

 

And? Did that change concept of the line in any way?

 

1 minute ago, Murqy said:

This is easy to fix and most likely a buff (the smoke feature). Would make the Z-52 competitive again and also the new line better at hunting light cruisers, which was the original idea.

 

And as I said, it would require extensive testing how will this impact performance of those ships. And could even require some further which you might not like. And if you think that WG will stop everything for this then think again. What you want doesn't matter at all, only thing that matter is what WG is thinking.

[Murqy]

1 minute ago, fumtu said:

 

And? Did that change concept of the line in any way?

 

 

And as I said, it would require extensive testing how will this impact performance of those ships. And could even require some further which you might not like. And if you think that WG will stop everything for this then think again. What you want doesn't matter at all, only thing that matter is what WG is thinking.

 I'm not deluding myself, I know WG doesnt care at all what players think. I'm curios what other players think. Myself, I think it would be fun as hell and it would also make the german DDs. relevant again.

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Murqy said:

I thought they only had improved AP- angles. Flamu seemed to get plenty over overpens trying the Z-31

They have extremly fast shells. And superstructures still give you overpens.

[Marducas91]

Z52 Was my fav dd than super dmp dds came out...haru full c.e has the same conceilment as u do and double if not more HE dpm. Daring straight up melts u and has a heal...should we really talk about halland and smaland? last one having radar completely denies smoke hydro combo. Torps are outclassed in dmg by everything exept eu dds but their reload is similar and both range and speed are much better. So you end up with a mediocre dd with no real strenght.

A possible buff to the old line could be a simple heal So u can trade while trying to contest caps

As for the new line haven't played them yet but just looking at stats...well not impressed 

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, Murqy said:

Give the old DD line the Italian smoke feature (to hide at full speed while deploying the same smoke consumable they have at the moment). In that way the German hydro would still be competitive to hunt other DDs and not eat so much damage while doing so.

The current line of German DD' are very solid and already excel at killing other DD's. Lets not make them even more oppressive. 

 

1 hour ago, Marducas91 said:

A possible buff to the old line could be a simple heal So u can trade while trying to contest caps

Again. They are already strong in that area. That added heal would just make them another broken line. 

[Marducas91]

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

 

 

Again. They are already strong in that area. That added heal would just make them another broken line. 

Than explain me why a daring has it. Sure hydro is not 6 km but considering the amount of radars around and the true effectiveness of smoke +hydro combo in a cap a heal is not such a big deal 

I had a daring charging me in that supposed super strong consumables combo and guess what once he reched 3km he just melted me. And good luck torping him while he is nose in shoting u and is running hydro...

[Bear__Necessities]

4 minutes ago, Marducas91 said:

Than explain me why a daring has it. Sure hydro is not 6 km but considering the amount of radars around and the true effectiveness of smoke +hydro combo in a cap a heal is not such a big deal 

I had a daring charging me in that supposed super strong consumables combo and guess what once he reched 3km he just melted me. And good luck torping him while he is nose in shoting u and is running hydro...

The Royal Navy line play very different to the German line. And just because Daring has it and is almost too strong doesn't mean every other DD should have it. 

And that's a you issue for the record. Misplaying doesn't make the ship you are in bad. 

[fumtu]

20 minutes ago, Marducas91 said:

Than explain me why a daring has it.

 

Daring is slow and don't have speed boost. Lot of T10 cruisers is faster than it, and all T10 DDs, many even without speed boost. That is why Daring has heal, as it can't disengage as other DDs can. Grozo got heal to make it more attractive to players as nobody is playing it but for that it lost one charge of every consumable. So without SI you only have 2 smokes. Just adding a heal would be too much and could result of loosing something else. I would rather if WG buff its damage output like decreasing guns reload as its average damage is really poor.

[Marducas91]

1 hour ago, Bear__Necessities said:

The Royal Navy line play very different to the German line. And just because Daring has it and is almost too strong doesn't mean every other DD should have it. 

And that's a you issue for the record. Misplaying doesn't make the ship you are in bad. 

 

1 hour ago, fumtu said:

 

Daring is slow and don't have speed boost. Lot of T10 cruisers is faster than it, and all T10 DDs, many even without speed boost. That is why Daring has heal, as it can't disengage as other DDs can. Grozo got heal to make it more attractive to players as nobody is playing it but for that it lost one charge of every consumable. So without SI you only have 2 smokes. Just adding a heal would be too much and could result of loosing something else. I would rather if WG buff its damage output like decreasing guns reload as its average damage is really poor.

Yeah it plays differently indeed. A dd that can smoke up everywhere and does not have to wait 3 minutes for the next smoke,has the dpm to outgun a z everyday of the week and it is not ment to cap contest as its "main role "  needs a heal more than a dd that is supposed to cap contest just because its slower? Come on guys... 

@Bear__Necessities on the you problem part, man i'm not a potato in this game and u can check it even on my stats and even looking at yours your daring stats are way batter than your z ones. Mine Was just an idea to help a dd that is struggling in almost every aspect to survive longer ence dealing more dmg and so on. 

@fumtu i respect you as a player but how can u compare 2 ships if u have one game in one and not even own the other?

[Humorpalanta]

8 minutes ago, Marducas91 said:

 i respect you as a player but how can u compare 2 ships if u have one game in one and not even own the other?

I do not own a Ferrari F40 or a Porsche 911 GT3 RS yet I still know how they are different and should be driven.

[Marducas91]

3 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

I do not own a Ferrari F40 or a Porsche 911 GT3 RS yet I still know how they are different and should be driven.

And someone who has both of them and can actually drive them would be for sure a lot more reliable than u in giving advices about those cars. Get the point now?

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, Marducas91 said:

And someone who has both of them and can actually drive them would be for sure a lot more reliable than u in giving advices about those cars. Get the point now?

 

So @fumtu was wrong with his analysis?

The problem with Daring is, thats its simply too strong, or maybe still OP. Its the best silver ship (by WR), almost 1% ahead of Petro.

[Humorpalanta]

4 minutes ago, Marducas91 said:

And someone who has both of them and can actually drive them would be for sure a lot more reliable than u in giving advices about those cars. Get the point now?

Yeah but if that guy is a terrible driver or just a spoilt kid who knows nothing about the cars themselves then he will think he gave the best advice ever meanwhile all he gave you is a laugh. Get the point now?

[fumtu]

25 minutes ago, Marducas91 said:

@fumtu i respect you as a player but how can u compare 2 ships if u have one game in one and not even own the other?

 

I own all T10 DDs but Hayate which I have no intention to get. I can provide you screenshots if you don't believe me. I just almost stopped playing them after CV rework. Thing is, adding heal is a huge buff, and you can't just add heal to one ship, you need to add heal on all German DDs from T8 to T10 for consistency. And for additional heal you will probably need to sacrifice something else just like Grozovoi sacrificed number of charges (to 2 stock) and guns reload (from 4sec to 4.2sec). So there is always a trade and in the end you might not like what you get. IMO slight buffs are much more realistic. Things like changing AP performance or gun reload are much more probably than just adding a heal. As that would require re-balancing ships. I never said that Z-52 don't buffs but I don't think heal is the right step for it.

 

Also bringing Z-52 on Daring level is not a good idea, actually Daring might be still to strong.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

So @fumtu was wrong with his analysis?

The problem with Daring is, thats its simply too strong, or maybe still OP. Its the best silver ship (by WR), almost 1% ahead of Petro.

 

Are you quoting the current weekly average or what?

 

 

Indeed a full -0.82 percentage points higher than Petro, with a game breaking 52.09% average winrate. Clearly OP. No wonder Daring got voted out of KotS by a large margin.

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Are you quoting the current weekly average or what? 

 

Last 28 days yes

 

Top T10 ships sorted by WR. Daring is first, Petro 2nd.

[fumtu]

7 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

No wonder Daring got voted out of KotS by a large margin.

 

What kind of argument was that? In competitive games Petro has much more influence than Daring. Also Daring is not the first pic for DD, as long as Smaland is allowed. Also also only one ship could be banned so guess which one will be banned.

[Murqy]

2 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

The Royal Navy line play very different to the German line. And just because Daring has it and is almost too strong doesn't mean every other DD should have it. 

And that's a you issue for the record. Misplaying doesn't make the ship you are in bad. 

The topic was not about introducing a heal for the German DDs, but a full speed smoke screen. It would have been OP when the Z52 was first released, but in the current meta it would just put the ship back where she was supposed to be.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

21 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Last 28 days yes

[...]

 

Top T10 ships sorted by WR. Daring is first, Petro 2nd.

 Is that your personal tool or a public source? Can you please give me the link?

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 Is that your personal tool or a public source? Can you please give me the link?

 

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/s/99999-h/