I would like a refund please, WG

[Lexmechanic]

tl;dr I believe that the Siegfried is a unique case and people should be offered an option to refund it.

 

Disclaimer: I spend money in WoWs. No idea if it's enough to make me a whale but I suspect so. I like the game in general, it helped me get through incredibly tough times and I'm ok with compensating WG for it.

That being said, I would like to return the Siegfried and get my points back.

Yes, I bought it for the secondaries. I'm not minmaxing, I play for fun. Community Contributors, the WG team on official streams and even the official Wiki had the Siegfried described as standing out due to its effective secondaries. It WAS a fun build to play and I liked it. After the captain skill rework, that option doesn't exist. Am I salty in general that the Siegfried is much weaker, like all supercruisers? Yes. But this post isn't about that.

After the captain skills rework, WG stated that "secondary cruisers were no longer a thing" because there weren't enough ships with that option to justify supporting the playstyle. That's the crux of my issue with the extent of changes to the Siegfried.

 

"Boo-hoo! Things have changed before! The stealth firing nerf affected many ships!" etc.

 

Yes, but that's a part of the problem. This wasn't a sweeping change to the entire game, with proportional impact on entire classes.

 

Siegfried was:

• Fairly new
• Expensive
• Expressly billed as a cruiser with good secondaries and an option to play it as such

The change was:

• Total: an entire playstyle was "deleted"
• Affected mainly the Siegfried

 

I waited patiently for the tweaks after the rework but it's clear now that fixing the Siegfried isn't on the radar and, as was stated, there's no interest in reviving the secondary cruiser playstyle (even though it could be done with direct tweaks to the ship). I understand what the usual rules are but I believe this is an exceptional case and thus it deserves special consideration. I can't speak for other owners of the Siegfried but I'd like a refund please.

[Pikkozoikum]

Well, guess you can't refund ships via forum. Probably the support tickets are for that case. But then you probably get the dubloons for the ships value and not the money.

You could try to explain, why they should give you back the money, but in first instance they will probably deny that.

 

So if you want your real money back, then I guess you need a lawyer or something ^^

[Lexmechanic]

11 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Well, guess you can't refund ships via forum. Probably the support tickets are for that case. But then you probably get the dubloons for the ships value and not the money.

You could try to explain, why they should give you back the money, but in first instance they will probably deny that.

 

So if you want your real money back, then I guess you need a lawyer or something ^^

An RB ship which has been used in battles can't be 'returned' according to normal rules. Thus, I'm making a forum appeal to look into the unique circumstances around the ship.

[PanChrupek]

I know how it feels... I bought Hill when it was still for db but then it became for coal and I can't get refunded...

[Pikkozoikum]

5 minutes ago, PanChrupek said:

I know how it feels... I bought Hill when it was still for db but then it became for coal and I can't get refunded...

Have you contacted the Support? I'm pretty sure, that you can refund ships for dubloons in specific cases

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I bought the Siegfried for secondaries MEME as well. I'd love to get my currency back, what was it, research points?

 

Bought the Atlanta for it's excellent AA umbrella. Bought the Blyskawicka because of its awesome stealth firing capabilities, bought the Flint because it seemed a better AA ship then the Atlanta was after 0.8.0. LOL.

 

[PanChrupek]

2 minuty temu, Pikkozoikum napisał:

Have you contacted the Support? I'm pretty sure, that you can refund ships for dubloons in specific cases

I did not but people told me that I won't get refunded so dunno if I should try

[invicta2012]

39 minutes ago, Lexmechanic said:

I waited patiently for the tweaks after the rework but it's clear now that fixing the Siegfried isn't on the radar and, as was stated, there's no interest in reviving the secondary cruiser playstyle (even though it could be done with direct tweaks to the ship). I understand what the usual rules are but I believe this is an exceptional cas

I agree. I think this was a new ship, promoted with a secondary playstyle, and that if the design bit of WG didn't know what the balancing bit of WG was up to with the captain skill rework, then that's their problem - they should either buff the Siegfried's secondaries back to where they were (not difficult, add a special secondary module for that ship and give the players what they paid for) or give a refund option. 

[morgoroth]

@Lexmechanic how can you refund something you don't actually own?

 

[ObiWankov]

if you can’t write off the money you spend on pixels, better not spend at all

[Lexmechanic]

I thought the disclaimer made it clear but in case those are indeed good faith comments, let me reiterate: I do not begrudge WG my money. The ship was a RB reward (and thus one could argue, actually pretty costly). I'm making a request for WG to take a look at this and consider a good faith gesture towards anyone in the same boat as myself, if you'll pardon the pun. I don't intend to make any dramatic pronouncements about leaving the game or not buying a thing ever again. I'm not trying to blackmail or bully anyone into anything.

 

I think the Siegfried suffered something that has never happened before: the cancellation of an entire playstyle. Not figuratively but by WGs full admission. I think people who feel the way I do deserve their RP back.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Unfortunately it’s not going to

happen and WG have said as much before.

 

The lack secondaries is not enough to stop it being a strong ship but severely reduces its ability to dead with angled ships and destroyers at close range.

 

I used to get in close with it and aggressively position to get broadsides while being close enough for my secondaries to get work in most battles.

Now I have to play it as a long range sniper. 
 

A buff in secondary range and dispersion would make such a difference to this ship and make it closer to what it once was.

 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 12 Minuten, gopher31 sagte:

 

A buff in secondary range and dispersion would make such a difference to this ship and make it closer to what it once was.

 

Change range, change sigma - done. 5 minutes work.

WG, your move.

[Verblonde]

I don't have Siegfried, mainly due to not having enough RPs until it was known that the secondaries (and therefore the entire ship's interest to me) were going to be knackered by the rework, so I don't have any skin in the game.

 

That said, I agree that in her case (and probably only her case; maybe AGS, but does anyone care much about her in this context?), WG ought to do one of the following:

1. Give Siegfried back her secondaries, by whatever means.
2. Offer a resource refund to all Siegfried owners.

Neither of those is especially hard, neither costs WG anything (apart from a few minutes work), and either would be a small gesture to counteract all WG's recent Richard moves that have been annoying the customers lately.

 

As a commercially-minded chap, this - to me - is a complete no-brainer; naturally, WG will do nothing of the sort...

[159Hunter]

tldr: contact support, if their answer is unsatisfactory contact one of the WG community staff on the forums (and mention your support ticket number)

[Sunleader]

6 hours ago, ObiWankov said:

if you can’t write off the money you spend on pixels, better not spend at all

 

Maybe you should now and then attempt to Read Posts.

He Spend RP and Asks for RP to be Returned.

I dont even know if Siegfried was available for Money in the First Place....

 

5 hours ago, Lexmechanic said:

I thought the disclaimer made it clear but in case those are indeed good faith comments, let me reiterate: I do not begrudge WG my money. The ship was a RB reward (and thus one could argue, actually pretty costly). I'm making a request for WG to take a look at this and consider a good faith gesture towards anyone in the same boat as myself, if you'll pardon the pun. I don't intend to make any dramatic pronouncements about leaving the game or not buying a thing ever again. I'm not trying to blackmail or bully anyone into anything.

 

I think the Siegfried suffered something that has never happened before: the cancellation of an entire playstyle. Not figuratively but by WGs full admission. I think people who feel the way I do deserve their RP back.

 

Well. The Word "Refund" is likely what caused this Trigger Effect. Because most People basicly came into this Topic thinking "Oh Great. Another Guy which Threatens WG to Demand back his Money unless they Buff his Favorite Ship etc"

Its unfortunately not a rare occurence lately.

So quite a few People likely never properly Read your Post and thus never actually Realized that you were just trying to make a Case on being Returned the Ingame Currency you Spend on a Ship that was Changed quite Drastically.

 

That being said.

Any such Requests needs to be made to the Support. As here in the Forum the Appropriate People that could actually make Decisions on this or Forward it to the People making the Decisions. Are unlikely to actually Read it.

If your Lucky a CM might see it and then Forward it his way. But in general you should make this Request to Support. Not to the Forum.

 

Moreover. Forgive me for saying. But your Chances on this are very Low.

WG Generally Sticks to the Rules. Which means if you Played the Ship more than Once. You cannot Refund the Ressources Spend no matter what.

If WG Decides that a Change is Drastic enough to Warrant a Return. They would have offered that to begin with.

 

 

A more likely Hope might be a Future Buff.

After all. The Captain Skill Rework is not Officially Balanced yet anyways.

WG has several times already made Clear. That a Rework of this Scale will cause Balance Issues. And that they are Planning to make Changes when Necessary.

So there is still a Chance Siegfried might receive Buffs at some Point to Restore her Value.

 

1 hour ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

Change range, change sigma - done. 5 minutes work.

WG, your move.

 

Base Range could easily be Changed.

However. You mean Dispersion. Not Sigma.

Secondaries never had Improved Sigma. Your Simply missing the 20% Range and 60% Dispersion Buff from the 2 Captain Skills that are no longer Available.

Easiest Method therefore would be. To Increase the Base Range of Siegfried Secondaries to 9km Base Range and Buff Siegfrieds Base Dispersion to about 400m on these 9km

Therefore giving it slightly less than what it would get with BB Skills. Because its not Spending any Skillpoints after all.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I don't have Siegfried, mainly due to not having enough RPs until it was known that the secondaries (and therefore the entire ship's interest to me) were going to be knackered by the rework, so I don't have any skin in the game.

 

That said, I agree that in her case (and probably only her case; maybe AGS, but does anyone care much about her in this context?), WG ought to do one of the following:

1. Give Siegfried back her secondaries, by whatever means.
2. Offer a resource refund to all Siegfried owners.

Neither of those is especially hard, neither costs WG anything (apart from a few minutes work), and either would be a small gesture to counteract all WG's recent Richard moves that have been annoying the customers lately.

 

As a commercially-minded chap, this - to me - is a complete no-brainer; naturally, WG will do nothing of the sort...

 

I Disagree.

 

1.

Siegfried is a Free Ship that is Available Purely on Ingame Ressources. So there is no Commercial Value here.

2.

Rebalancing is nowhere near "a few minutes work" In terms of Time Investment it is in fact pretty heavy.

People tend to Forget this. But each time a Single Ship is Buffed or Nerfed. All other Ships that can Face that Ship are also Buffed or Nerfed indirectly because one of their Potential Opponents got Weaker/Stronger.

Especially Secondary Accuracy is actually an Insanely Heavy Buff/Nerf in that Regard. Because Accuracy is what makes Secondaries Dangerous or Harmless against Destroyers.

The Reason that Graf Zeppelin Secondaries are so Incredible Powerful. Is not down to their Pretty high DPM or their now lost German Pen. Its because they are Incredible Accurate and can Kill any DD in Range in a matter of Seconds.

3.

Your Commercial Mind is not really impressing me then. Because doing this would be a Pure Cost Factor with no Benefit.

Even more so when you put the Risk of Balance Trouble on the Table which might make alot of other People unhappy.

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

15 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Maybe you should now and then attempt to Read Posts.

He Spend RP and Asks for RP to be Returned.

I dont even know if Siegfried was available for Money in the First Place....

 

 

Well. The Word "Refund" is likely what caused this Trigger Effect. Because most People basicly came into this Topic thinking "Oh Great. Another Guy which Threatens WG to Demand back his Money unless they Buff his Favorite Ship etc"

Its unfortunately not a rare occurence lately.

So quite a few People likely never properly Read your Post and thus never actually Realized that you were just trying to make a Case on being Returned the Ingame Currency you Spend on a Ship that was Changed quite Drastically.

 

That being said.

Any such Requests needs to be made to the Support. As here in the Forum the Appropriate People that could actually make Decisions on this or Forward it to the People making the Decisions. Are unlikely to actually Read it.

If your Lucky a CM might see it and then Forward it his way. But in general you should make this Request to Support. Not to the Forum.

 

Moreover. Forgive me for saying. But your Chances on this are very Low.

WG Generally Sticks to the Rules. Which means if you Played the Ship more than Once. You cannot Refund the Ressources Spend no matter what.

If WG Decides that a Change is Drastic enough to Warrant a Return. They would have offered that to begin with.

 

 

A more likely Hope might be a Future Buff.

After all. The Captain Skill Rework is not Officially Balanced yet anyways.

WG has several times already made Clear. That a Rework of this Scale will cause Balance Issues. And that they are Planning to make Changes when Necessary.

So there is still a Chance Siegfried might receive Buffs at some Point to Restore her Value.

 

 

Base Range could easily be Changed.

However. You mean Dispersion. Not Sigma.

Secondaries never had Improved Sigma. Your Simply missing the 20% Range and 60% Dispersion Buff from the 2 Captain Skills that are no longer Available.

Easiest Method therefore would be. To Increase the Base Range of Siegfried Secondaries to 9km Base Range and Buff Siegfrieds Base Dispersion to about 400m on these 9km

Therefore giving it slightly less than what it would get with BB Skills. Because its not Spending any Skillpoints after all.

 

 

 

I Disagree.

 

1.

Siegfried is a Free Ship that is Available Purely on Ingame Ressources. So there is no Commercial Value here.

2.

Rebalancing is nowhere near "a few minutes work" In terms of Time Investment it is in fact pretty heavy.

People tend to Forget this. But each time a Single Ship is Buffed or Nerfed. All other Ships that can Face that Ship are also Buffed or Nerfed indirectly because one of their Potential Opponents got Weaker/Stronger.

Especially Secondary Accuracy is actually an Insanely Heavy Buff/Nerf in that Regard. Because Accuracy is what makes Secondaries Dangerous or Harmless against Destroyers.

The Reason that Graf Zeppelin Secondaries are so Incredible Powerful. Is not down to their Pretty high DPM or their now lost German Pen. Its because they are Incredible Accurate and can Kill any DD in Range in a matter of Seconds.

3.

Your Commercial Mind is not really impressing me then. Because doing this would be a Pure Cost Factor with no Benefit.

Even more so when you put the Risk of Balance Trouble on the Table which might make alot of other People unhappy.

Long story very short:

 

I feel with you and understand where you are coming from, but please do be aware that refunds are based on courtesy and nothing else. Be it money, time or whatever, always spend it knowing you won't get it back. 

 

 

The things customers tried to refund in my store........ honestly, I'm being rather courteous, but some people need to learn to live with their decisions. 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 16 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

Base Range could easily be Changed.

However. You mean Dispersion. Not Sigma.

Secondaries never had Improved Sigma.

...

 

2.

Rebalancing is nowhere near "a few minutes work" In terms of Time Investment it is in fact pretty heavy.

People tend to Forget this.

I meant sigma and I am well aware of how secondary accuracy is modelled. In the end it doesn't matter whether you decrease dispersion or increase sigma, using the right values it will yield similar results.

 

Rebalancing can be done quite fast. The parameters are known, the outcome is known. There is not much to test anymore. It's the same as with Flint. You know already how she would perform with a range buff to former AFT values. People played her like that for years. The data is already there.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 17 Minuten, dCK_Ad_Hominem sagte:

 

 

The things customers tried to refund in my store........ honestly, I'm being rather courteous, but some people need to learn to live with their decisions. 

I sell you a printer. It is a normal printer but it supports a special kind of paper that makes printed out photos look much better than conventional paper. You look for high quality photo prints so you buy the printer and the paper from me.

A couple of months later when your paper is empty you turn to me for more. I tell you the paper is not supplied anymore. Now you are stuck with an ordinary printer.

Happy customer? Your own fault?

[hellhound666]

imho it would be normal that wg/lesta would offer compensation for the ships which gimmicks got nerfed like it happened with kutuzov and belfast ... but this would be a normal world ...

today wg/lesta are not part of the normal world, but no predatory business practice is the way of russian business

and where are our dynamic duo and other representatives explaining that fcking us ok as it is done globally?

[Camperdown]

8 hours ago, Europizza said:

I bought the Siegfried for secondaries MEME as well. I'd love to get my currency back, what was it, research points?

 

Bought the Atlanta for it's excellent AA umbrella. Bought the Blyskawicka because of its awesome stealth firing capabilities, bought the Flint because it seemed a better AA ship then the Atlanta was after 0.8.0. LOL.

 

Fool me once ..... 

[invicta2012]

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Siegfried is a Free Ship that is Available Purely on Ingame Ressources. So there is no Commercial Value here.

Then there's no problem giving him a refund, is there?

[Bratoev]

All things considered the ship's secondary stats haven't changed. Captains are a separate feature. ;) 

[Hugh_Ruka]

17 minutes ago, Bratoev said:

All things considered the ship's secondary stats haven't changed. Captains are a separate feature. ;) 

sure ... try playing ship at that tier without captains and let us know how well you do ...

[Bratoev]

3 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

sure ... try playing ship at that tier without captains and let us know how well you do ...

About as well as a secondary captain on a Siegfried.