Kamikaze/Kamikaze R

[SuperDare83]

If WG can now nerf special/premium ships please can they nerf the most OP low tier DD Kamikaze/Kamikaze R - the things is absolutely nuts in terms of torpedo strength especially after the commander rework

 

[ColonelPete]

Just WASD and you are fine.

 

Back in the day, when Minekaze had the same torps, she was not the strongest ship.

 

The problem with Kamikaze is that most of her players are multi-year veterans with high point captains.

[DFens_666]

No, nerfing special ships is different than nerfing premiums. They might nerf newer premiums like Flandre where they explictly stated that this ship can be changed on a later date. But older premiums are safe from that, except for global changes.

[RambaRal]

15 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

If WG can now nerf special/premium ships please can they nerf the most OP low tier DD Kamikaze/Kamikaze R - the things is absolutely nuts in terms of torpedo strength especially after the commander rework

 

 Please read HERE

[ghostbuster_]

17 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Just WASD and you are fine.

 

Back in the day, when Minekaze had the same torps, she was not the strongest ship.

 

The problem with Kamikaze is that most of her players are multi-year veterans with high point captains.

So what? Good players perform godlike in these ships because they can use their full potential. Same thing applies to other op ships like thunderer and smolensk etc. Bad players cant do anything with them while good players beat the crap out other players in those ships. Does this make thunderer balanced? Nope. Does this make kamikaze r balanced? Nope.

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

So what? Good players perform godlike in these ships because they can use their full potential. Same thing applies to other op ships like thunderer and smolensk etc. Bad players cant do anything with those while good players beat the crap out other players in those ships. Does this make thunderer balanced? Nope. Does this make kamikaze r balanced? Nope.

You seem to have an interersting understanding what godlike means. Sinking less than 3 ships in a 12v12 game is not godlike and the vast majority is even below 2.

 

That is how she would perform with normal players:

Spoiler

Far from "OP".

[SuperDare83]

25 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Just WASD and you are fine.

 

Back in the day, when Minekaze had the same torps, she was not the strongest ship.

 

The problem with Kamikaze is that most of her players are multi-year veterans with high point captains.

Have you seen how fast the torps go now with all the torp acceleration upgrade/skill.   WASD works but you still take 1-2 in less maneuverable cruisers and bbs at lower tier and those torps HURT.  Couple that with the low detectability and lack of effective tools to counter and its OP

 

Also, I may be looking at this wrong, but Kamikaze is top of the tier V dd table in terms of WR,  average damage, average frags, average experience, K/D (2.43!).  Kamikaze R is third with more than 3 243 449 battles played! These ships need nerfs! as they are incredibly hard to counter een in the hands of less skilled players

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

Have you seen how fast the torps go now with all the torp acceleration upgrade/skill.   WASD works but you still take 1-2 in less maneuverable cruisers and bbs at lower tier and those torps HURT.  Couple that with the low detectability and lack of effective tools to counter and its OP

Contrary to the past, we now have these things called rocket planes, much more hydro and more gun DD. And when you are extra unlucky, you have to deal with radar.

[_HomTanks_]

If you are a good dd/cruiser player, you should be able to sink enemy kami sisters at ease. If you are a good BB player, you will know how to position and shoot dds when they are spotted. On the other hand, any ship in the game is up to its captain's skills. A ship won't make you a better player all of a sudden. Hence, there are many bad kami sister captains out there. 

[Hugh_Ruka]

9 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

Have you seen how fast the torps go now with all the torp acceleration upgrade/skill.   WASD works but you still take 1-2 in less maneuverable cruisers and bbs at lower tier and those torps HURT.  Couple that with the low detectability and lack of effective tools to counter and its OP

You did not understand ... WASDing when the torps are already visible to you is already too late ...

[SuperDare83]

Just now, Hugh_Ruka said:

You did not understand ... WASDing when the torps are already visible to you is already too late ...

I understand perfectly, I mean even with active maneuvering, they're hard to dodge.  Plus with island cover the ambush threat is huge and their very low detection also limits awareness.  Please try playing against them.  Not fun

 

[ghostbuster_]

20 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You seem to have an interersting understanding what godlike means. Sinking less than 3 ships in a 12v12 game is not godlike and the vast majority is even below 2.

 

That is how she would perform with normal players:

  Reveal hidden contents

Far from "OP".

Good player I said, didnt i? These stats you shared include the biggest potatoe aswell. Just go and check general stats of thunderer. Those are that much different than some other tier 10 BBs. Are you gonna claim that thunderer is far from OP too? Or belfast? 

 

As I have said many times. Even a ship with capablity of deleting entire enemy team with one consumable would look balanced if you checked general stats since the majority of players are just lets say special.

[_HomTanks_]

6 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

I understand perfectly, I mean even with active maneuvering, they're hard to dodge.  Plus with island cover the ambush threat is huge and their very low detection also limits awareness.  Please try playing against them.  Not fun

 

You are aware that;

 

1- Everyone has access to the silver ships including 30% players but not everyone has access to kami sisters and gremmy unless they gamble lots of money in loot boxes?

2- These ships are about as old as your account registration date? Which means commanders who were noob 6 years ago could be unicum or even better today? While other ships are researched and played daily by new players throughout this 6 year period?

3- So what you are trying to show and what you are comparing reflects nothing much really.

[SuperDare83]

1 minute ago, Execute0rder66 said:

You are aware that;

 

1- Everyone has access to the silver ships including 30% players but not everyone has access to kami sisters and gremmy unless they gamble lots of money in loot boxes?

2- These ships are about as old as your account registration date? Which means commanders who were noob 6 years ago could be unicum or even better today? While other ships are researched and played daily by new players throughout this 6 year period?

3- So what you are trying to show and what you are comparing reflects nothing much really.

1 - Not sure what you are tying to say, that a select group of players have access to very strong ships.  Yes its a little unfair

2- Again, what's your point? Stalingrad is 'old' but has still had a nerf to radar duration due to captain skills.  So should these - 71 knts base torp speed plus the torp speed module and captain skill! That is ridiculous

3 - That they need a nerf 

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, DaddyDare said:

2- Again, what's your point? Stalingrad is 'old' but has still had a nerf to radar duration due to captain skills.  So should these - 71 knts base torp speed plus the torp speed module and captain skill! That is ridiculous

 

 

Left Kami - Right Jaguar

Almost identical, Jaguar has an extra km of range, but loses out on the crazy reload speed. Then again, dosnt necessarily matter at all. Ontop of that, Jaguar has 5k more HP but worse concealment, which doesnt matter as the extra torprange makes up for that. But due to having more health, Jaguar can just easily kill every DD it faces.

[_HomTanks_]

8 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

1 - Not sure what you are tying to say, that a select group of players have access to very strong ships.  Yes its a little unfair

Okay, i'll make it clearer; Kami and fujin were on sale in 2015 last time. Kami-R was an event game ship on Feb 2016 and for a short period sometime in 2017 iirc. Other than those events or sales at those years, the only possibility to obtain them is to loot box in Christmas. So, that makes them not accessible to everyone. It is perfectly fair imo, as you registered your account in 2015, you could have gotten all three or only Kami-R for free but you didn't.

Quote

2- Again, what's your point? Stalingrad is 'old' but has still had a nerf to radar duration due to captain skills.  So should these - 71 knts base torp speed plus the torp speed module and captain skill! That is ridiculous

Stalingrad is not as old. How about 95knots Halland torps? Or 80 something knots Shima torps? How come they don't bother you?

Quote

3 - That they need a nerf 

No, you need to get better.

[Hugh_Ruka]

11 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

I understand perfectly, I mean even with active maneuvering, they're hard to dodge.  Plus with island cover the ambush threat is huge and their very low detection also limits awareness.  Please try playing against them.  Not fun

 

 

Just went into wowsft and specced Minekaze and Kamikaze with all torpedo speed options, the displayed reaction time is 7.2 vs 7.3 seconds ... so where's the OPnes ? The only major difference is torpedo damage and 4 seconds reload advantage for the Kamikaze ... so the 4k damage per torp is the only major advantage for Kamikaze. From dodging perspective both are the same.

 

Why don't you complain about the Minekaze ?

[Hugh_Ruka]

7 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

1 - Not sure what you are tying to say, that a select group of players have access to very strong ships.  Yes its a little unfair

2- Again, what's your point? Stalingrad is 'old' but has still had a nerf to radar duration due to captain skills.  So should these - 71 knts base torp speed plus the torp speed module and captain skill! That is ridiculous

3 - That they need a nerf 

Stalingrad was never available for direct purchase ...

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Good player I said, didnt i? These stats you shared include the biggest potatoe aswell. Just go and check general stats of thunderer. Those are that much different than some other tier 10 BBs. Are you gonna claim that thunderer is far from OP too? Or belfast? 

 

As I have said many times. Even a ship with capablity of deleting entire enemy team with one consumable would look balanced if you checked general stats since the majority of players are just lets say special.

That is why I wrote "normal players"...

 

And no, Thunderer is not "OP", just annoying.

Belfast got close to it, back in the day.

 

And no, such a ship would vastly outperform any other ship, even when played by average players.

14 minutes ago, DaddyDare said:

Please try playing against them.

I usually do not have problems with them.

[ghostbuster_]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

Left Kami - Right Jaguar

Almost identical, Jaguar has an extra km of range, but loses out on the crazy reload speed. Then again, dosnt necessarily matter at all. Ontop of that, Jaguar has 5k more HP but worse concealment, which doesnt matter as the extra torprange makes up for that. But due to having more health, Jaguar can just easily kill every DD it faces.

If it was a 1v1 game, sure. But it isnt. Sure jaguar is a strong ship but in general, kamikaze has much more advantages over jaguar. 

[YabbaCoe]

Před 1 hodinou DaddyDare řekl/a:

If WG can now nerf special/premium ships please can they nerf the most OP low tier DD Kamikaze/Kamikaze R - the things is absolutely nuts in terms of torpedo strength especially after the commander rework

 

Unfortunately Kamikaze won't be nerfed, as it is not special ship and also it is one of premium still stold without the mark, that characteristics can be changed.

[ghostbuster_]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

That is why I wrote "normal players"...

Well you cant balance a ship according to "normal players".  Getting OP ships is the result of WG tring to "balance" things according to "normal players".

Just now, ColonelPete said:

 

And no, Thunderer is not "OP", just annoying.

 

Great concealment

God tier rudder shift

Amazing HE and AP

God tier accuracy

Stupid range

 

This thing is OP af. Conq is annoying and a bad design but thunderer... thunderer is all of those. Bad design, OP af and annoying.

Just now, ColonelPete said:

Belfast got close to it, back in the day.

She still is due to her consumables. Her dpm got slightly nerfed but the reason she was op was not her dpm. Its her access to those consumables.

Just now, ColonelPete said:

And no, such a ship would vastly outperform any other ship, even when played by average players.

I usually do not have problems with them.

Not sure about that. We see the arvg joe's performance in OP ships. 

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

If it was a 1v1 game, sure. But it isnt. Sure jaguar is a strong ship but in general, kamikaze has much more advantages over jaguar. 

 

Well its only having worse concealment and no smoke. The first often doesnt matter and the latter only really matters if you get a superunicum CV against you. Which hasnt happened to me so far. Instead you have far superior firepower and like 40% more HP.

If someone wants an OP DD on T5 who doesnt have Kami, just pick Jaguar. But git gud first, as it naturally will need more skill because of having no smoke. But once you got that, i dont see an issue with it. You should get equal results with either of them.

[SV_Kompresor]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

And no, Thunderer is not "OP"

Okay, let's not go that far shall we?

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Not sure about that. We see the arvg joe's performance in OP ships. 

Which should be a good indication that they are not "OP", but just have a high skill ceiling.