Hamburg Dockyard: Construction of ZF-6

[Psticide]

this will be the first of many future dockyards i will skip , not even worth 2000 doubloons 

[Aragathor]

7 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

So starter packs are the same. Considering finishing building a ship without starter pack is ZF-6 cheaper to same consideration for Hizen.

That's not my argument. You claimed that ZF-6 is cheaper if you buy single phases. You did not mention comparing it to the same steps for Hizen until now.

 

7 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

Also as compared before, the total number of doubloons, considering simply prize of phase * number of phases, is very comparable to Hizen, very slightly lower.

Not really, both Hizen and ZF-6 had a 5000 doubloon starter pack that together with the missions allowed players to complete the event and get the ship. It's literally the same amount of doubloons.

 

I think that since English is not your native language there is something lost in translation here.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

How, specifically, do players obtain the mentioned steel? The disappointing news article is worded even more poorly and confusing than what we have come to expect. This once again borders on false advertising.

[dEEkAy2k9]

how long can i purchase the early packages for the ship building phases?

[YabbaCoe]

Před 16 hodinami Aragathor řekl/a:

That's not my argument. You claimed that ZF-6 is cheaper if you buy single phases. You did not mention comparing it to the same steps for Hizen until now.

 

Not really, both Hizen and ZF-6 had a 5000 doubloon starter pack that together with the missions allowed players to complete the event and get the ship. It's literally the same amount of doubloons.

 

I think that since English is not your native language there is something lost in translation here.

Yes, both ships have the same starter packs. So it players decide to purchase smaller starter pack and rest from missions, the amount of doubloons needed to get the ship will be the same for ZF-6 as for Hizen.

Btw bigger starter pack for Hizen was for 9950  doubloons and gave 10 phases.

So when purchasing both starter packs and finishing the rest for doubloons, it will cost 38 150 doubloons.

The same for Hizen would cost 38 350 doubloons.

Not by much, but it is slightly cheaper.

But let's say, considering the little difference and same price for small starter pack, so same lowest price needed, they are same expensive.

 

Před 14 hodinami FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor řekl/a:

How, specifically, do players obtain the mentioned steel? The disappointing news article is worded even more poorly and confusing than what we have come to expect. This once again borders on false advertising.

If you complete the construction of IX ZF-6 by spending Doubloons, make sure to keep completing Dockyard combat missions—each phase will bring you 3,000 Coal and 200 Steel.

 

Před 10 hodinami dEEkAy2k9 řekl/a:

how long can i purchase the early packages for the ship building phases?

Until you will receive third phase from combat missions.

[WarshipFoxy]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:41 PM, MALUS_DACUS_1600 said:

Hello The Eurl Guy,

 

I am an average player who want to progress faster in the game and ready to use my card to achieve that. When I read your material regarding nerfing Thunderer and Stalingrad I change my mind.

So I'm asking you today the following question:

Why should I invest real money to buy doubloons and pay all phases(by the way price/phase increase since Hizen, I don't know why, maybe covid 19) to gain coal and steel in order to buy this wonderfull ships if you are nerfing them?

I would like to buy them both. Is not the players fault that you made them OP so you can win a lot of money.

 

A quick answer will be appreciate it

Thunderer and Stalingrad are NO PREMIUM SHIPS they are reward ships and they always could have been changed. Premiums as of yet haven't got nerfed (exeption is when a whole mechcanic got changed) and many people assume its like WoT where they said that they not nerf Premiums but i can't remember such a thing for WoWs.

About the cost increase yes it got more expensive per phase but since you "only" need 3 this time its cheeper then the Hizen event.when you grind out the maximum phases avadible.

And lastly you can't buy the Thunderer anymore

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 1 Stunde, YabbaCoe sagte:

If you complete the construction of IX ZF-6 by spending Doubloons, make sure to keep completing Dockyard combat missions—each phase will bring you 3,000 Coal and 200 Steel.

Thanks very much but I am able to read for myself.

What I am not able to do is find out what is actually meant by that wording specifically.

And apparently, neither can WG player support because it has been 15 hours since I opened a ticket about it with no response so far. If this had been a crash or technical malfunction, they would have swamped me with automated standard boilerplate about my evil mods and made me update the drivers of my ancient low performance graphics board long since.

Does it mean I have to whale completely through the whole dockyard all at once to get that steel? Because that's the literal meaning of "to complete".

Or do I just have to buy enough "phases" to be able to complete the ship? Because that is also an interpretation going around among players.

At which point does the steel reward crop up in the missions specifically? Do I get more steel for more doubloons?

How much steel do I get for exactly how many doubloons, and when?

 

Wargaming loves treating this game like it was purely business when it comes to maximizing their profits but they need to learn there are rules, regulations and indeed laws governing business dealings, and these include specifying exactly what the deal actually is. What you are actually selling, for how much, and when it will be delivered. The wording of the news bulletin does not fulfill this requirement, it aims to make players buy a pig in a poke.

[Rubytwo]

43 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Thanks very much but I am able to read for myself.

What I am not able to do is find out what is actually meant by that wording specifically.

And apparently, neither can WG player support because it has been 15 hours since I opened a ticket about it with no response so far. If this had been a crash or technical malfunction, they would have swamped me with automated standard boilerplate about my evil mods and made me update the drivers of my ancient low performance graphics board long since.

Does it mean I have to whale completely through the whole dockyard all at once to get that steel? Because that's the literal meaning of "to complete".

Or do I just have to buy enough "phases" to be able to complete the ship? Because that is also an interpretation going around among players.

At which point does the steel reward crop up in the missions specifically? Do I get more steel for more doubloons?

How much steel do I get for exactly how many doubloons, and when?

 

Wargaming loves treating this game like it was purely business when it comes to maximizing their profits but they need to learn there are rules, regulations and indeed laws governing business dealings, and these include specifying exactly what the deal actually is. What you are actually selling, for how much, and when it will be delivered. The wording of the news bulletin does not fulfill this requirement, it aims to make players buy a pig in a poke.

Hi mate,

 

You only get the mentioned amounts of coal and steel WHEN you buy the ZF-6 at the start of the DY event and then complete ALL phases again (this means you purchased ALL phases up to 22 at once and then re-doing it again yourselves up to phase 19 through executing the missions).

 

When doing so, you will get 19x3000 coal and 19*200 steel, besides the rewards of each phase currently shown in the DY event. Maybe you get 3x additional coal and steel for the phases 20/22, but i am not sure about that.

 

Nothing else, except this time WeeGee is not providing the Research Bureau opening for (new) players who have not fullfilled the obligation of the research/purchase of 5 regular tech tree vessels on tier X.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 5 Stunden, Rubytwo sagte:

You only get the mentioned amounts of coal and steel WHEN you buy the ZF-6 at the start of the DY event and then complete ALL phases again (this means you purchased ALL phases up to 22 at once and then re-doing it again yourselves up to phase 19 through executing the missions).

That is also what Player Support just told me:

"To do it, you can go to the dockyard and press the button 'complete for doubloons'. After this, opening each new Dockyard phase by completing combat missions will bring you Coal and Steel."

 

So that means you get no steel at all if you just buy some starter packs, even though that is what many players have been led to believe and have told me in response to my questions on a wide variety of social media, proving my point about the confusion.

 

If you whale through the ship right away, spending 8960+5000+24200 = 38160 doubloons for both starter packs and 14 individual phases of 2200 doubloons each, then you also get no steel at all but only the mere option to win the steel by playing rather a lot of the game over the coming two months. The maximum amount of steel you can get this way is 25x200=5,000 but it is not guaranteed.

 

And at the same time, WG makes sure players do not just pay for that steel with actual money but also with their time spent on WG's servers, the second, equally important pillar of their business model. You buy into that time no matter what they do to the game in that time. Just imagine they do something as bad as the captain skill rework or CV rework, something that really puts you off. They are wont to do something like that at any point in time.

 

And to reiterate, you get zero steel for buying starter packs for doubloons. You don't even get the option to win any steel later buy buying starter packs for doubloons. To get a little steel for spending less than the maximum amount of doubloons, you need to wait until near the end of the whole dockyard event and spend your doubloons only then. The minimum amount of doubloons you can spend to gain steel is 6600, for the last three phases, which will get you the option to win 600 steel.

 

Not worth it.

[YabbaCoe]

Před 17 minutami FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor řekl/a:

That is also what Player Support just told me:

"To do it, you can go to the dockyard and press the button 'complete for doubloons'. After this, opening each new Dockyard phase by completing combat missions will bring you Coal and Steel."

 

So that means you get no steel at all if you just buy some starter packs, even though that is what many players have been led to believe and have told me in response to my questions on a wide variety of social media, proving my point about the confusion.

 

If you whale through the ship right away, spending 8960+5000+24200 = 38160 doubloons for both starter packs and 14 individual phases of 2200 doubloons each, then you also get no steel at all but only the mere option to win the steel by playing rather a lot of the game over the coming two months. The maximum amount of steel you can get this way is 25x200=5,000 but it is not guaranteed.

 

And at the same time, WG makes sure players do not just pay for that steel with actual money but also with their time spent on WG's servers, the second, equally important pillar of their business model. You buy into that time no matter what they do to the game in that time. Just imagine they do something as bad as the captain skill rework or CV rework, something that really puts you off. They are wont to do something like that at any point in time.

 

And to reiterate, you get zero steel for buying starter packs for doubloons. You don't even get the option to win any steel later buy buying starter packs for doubloons. To get a little steel for spending less than the maximum amount of doubloons, you need to wait until near the end of the whole dockyard event and spend your doubloons only then. The minimum amount of doubloons you can to spend to gain steel is 6600, for the last three phases, which will get you the option to win 600 steel.

 

Not worth it.

I think those requirements are clear, I will quote that again:

If you complete the construction of IX ZF-6 by spending Doubloons, make sure to keep completing Dockyard combat missions—each phase will bring you 3,000 Coal and 200 Steel.

 

So it means, when you will finish building ZF-6 somehow (pure whale, starter packs + phases from missions), for every other phase you would get from remaining combat missions, you will get 3000 Coal and 200 Steel.

 

Maximum amount of steel you can get is 3 800, as only 19 Phases you can get from combat missions.

 

Is that more clear for you?

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 1 Stunde, YabbaCoe sagte:

I think those requirements are clear, I will quote that again:

It really starts to feel insulting at this point.

 

The requirements as put forth in the news bulletin are by no means clear, as evidenced by the huge amount of players who actually think you get steel rewards, or the option of winning steel rewards, just for buying starter packs.

Edit: Still others think you have to buy starter packs to unlock the steel rewards.

Which, to reiterate, you do not.

If any normal vendor created this much confusion about their offerings, I think there would be serious legal repercussions.

[YabbaCoe]

Před 3 hodinami FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor řekl/a:

It really starts to feel insulting at this point.

 

The requirements as put forth in the news bulletin are by no means clear, as evidenced by the huge amount of players who actually think you get steel rewards, or the option of winning steel rewards, just for buying starter packs.

Edit: Still others think you have to buy starter packs to unlock the steel rewards.

Which, to reiterate, you do not.

If any normal vendor created this much confusion about their offerings, I think there would be serious legal repercussions.

But in the article there is no mention that "Buying starter pack will give you steel". So where exactly you read that?

Also I haven't spotted those "huge amount of players" who are mentioning the same... but maybe I am just blind

[NobleRipper]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:28 PM, YabbaCoe said:

[Gift Containers]

 

I have to congratulate WG. I used to think that Gift Containers were a ridiculously miserly 'reward' that were hardly worth the effort of claiming them for free.

 

Then we were introduced to Italian Battleship Containers, the vast majority of which were literally only worth 1/5th as much, and suddenly the GCs seem almost generous by comparison!

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 2 Stunden, YabbaCoe sagte:

But in the article there is no mention that "Buying starter pack will give you steel". So where exactly you read that?

I didn't read that and I never claimed to have read that.

All I have been doing is asking about the specifics because I refused to believe that you had to whale through the whole thing, and because there is only one single sentence hinting at some steel rewards and how to get them. Which is apparently insufficient.

So I asked around. Here on the forum, and on the Flamu discord, and my clan discord, and reddit, and on the Flamu stream chat and the like. Also in-game chat.

It took some time to get correct answers. Notice how the usual know-it-alls from this forum, who otherwise love to gleefully rub my nose in it whenever I overlook something obvious, have been conspicuously absent for a whole day. Maybe it's their holiday or they have blocked me by now. Don't care. I choose to take it as another symptom.

But what I found most striking is that lots of players told me I needed to buy the starter packs to unlock the steel. And the like.

 

Zitat

Also I haven't spotted those "huge amount of players" who are mentioning the same... but maybe I am just blind

I rather suspect you simply did not ask any players, as I did.

We in the teaching business refer to this kind of thing as "monitoring of progress."

Although that was just a happy accident because I genuinely wanted to know.

 

Edit: Another example of good "progress monitoring" questions to ask would be "What is the maximum amount of steel you can get, and how many doubloons do you need to spend for that?" as well as "What is the minimum amount of doubloons you need to spend to get any steel?" Or even "Do you have to buy starter packs in order to gain steel?"

 

Neither of these questions are answered directly in the news bulletin, it actually distracts from some of the correct answers while trying to unload the starter packs (classic bait-and-switch) and when trying to figure it out earlier in this thread, I myself made a mistake. The maximum is less than 5,000 and the cost is far greater than the 38160 doubloons from https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/149267-hamburg-dockyard-construction-of-zf-6/?do=findComment&comment=3857318. I think I have figured out the correct answer by now. Anybody care to guess?

 

[nightcrow82]

hi, my first marathon in Wows, so if I have read it correctly, for free you can go up to 19 out of 22 phases, and then you have to pay in order to finish to get the ship? Marathon for ship that isn't free?

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 52 Minuten, nightcrow82 sagte:

hi, my first marathon in Wows, so if I have read it correctly, for free you can go up to 19 out of 22 phases, and then you have to pay in order to finish to get the ship?

You have to unlock at least three phases with doubloons, that much is correct.

Technically, you don't have to strictly pay per se though. Pay with actual money, that is.

It is possible to win doubloons over time as they crop up now and then as in-game rewards for missions and such, or if you, say, happen to win a premium ship that you already owned, you will get compensated in doubloons. Sometimes. Players that have been playing for some time, such as myself, may have saved up enough to unlock the ship that way.

Also I seem to remember you can gain doubloons through the recruitment program because you get a certain percentage of kickback from all the doubloons spent (or bought?) by your recruits. That is why the popular streamers are positively drowning in doubloons.

[nightcrow82]

Well am a returner to game, i asked some people to join as well, but so far i haven't seen so much dublons in game missions so far, if I may compare to Wot marathons, where you have a posibillty to get the tank complete for free, , you cant get the ship here with out those 5k, that is my question?

[NobleRipper]

6 minutes ago, nightcrow82 said:

Well am a returner to game, i asked some people to join as well, but so far i haven't seen so much dublons in game missions so far, if I may compare to Wot marathons, where you have a posibillty to get the tank complete for free, , you cant get the ship here with out those 5k, that is my question?

Shortest answer is: no, you can't get the ship for free.

 

Elaborations may include: ...this time around; previous Dockyard events have had free ships as rewards for completing certain stages and the Puerto Rico event even allowed players to unlock the whole thing for 'free'.*

 

*WG made the requirements for this horrendously difficult to achieve even for veteran players by means of massive target numbers required and sharply limited time to achieve them. They also neglected to make clear that certain things were changed significantly between the Test Server iteration and the live event which caused quite a few people to spend doubloons based on misleading advertising.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 13 Minuten, nightcrow82 sagte:

you cant get the ship here with out those 5k, that is my question?

Correct. That is the minimum amount of doubloons you have to spend, the small starter pack.

And if you just buy that small starter pack and nothing else, then you get no steel rewards at all.

[nightcrow82]

3 minutes ago, NobleSauvage said:

Shortest answer is: no, you can't get the ship for free.

 

Elaborations may include: ...this time around; previous Dockyard events have had free ships as rewards for completing certain stages and the Puerto Rico event even allowed players to unlock the whole thing for 'free'.*

 

*WG made the requirements for this horrendously difficult to achieve even for veteran players by means of massive target numbers required and sharply limited time to achieve them. They also neglected to make clear that certain things were changed significantly between the Test Server iteration and the live event which caused quite a few people to spend doubloons based on misleading advertising.

See my stats, am a noob generaly,  but i have managed to finish this week campagin in 2 days, i didnt know Wg are more greedy here , especialy with smaller player base and prices of ships beyond normal

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 3 Minuten, nightcrow82 sagte:

especialy with smaller player base and prices of ships beyond normal

That is because the players are on average far older than in WoT and have a lot more disposable income, apparently.

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/149403-describe-the-majority-of-wows-players/

[nightcrow82]

That's beyond logic,  kids put more money in games than older people, cause they don't go so much outside to play like sometime in the past. And having a free to play game with not a desent amount of free content, thats an interesting bussiness model i want to see. If they didnt stimulate so much free content in wot like now, nobody would play it, and people will stop plaing this as well. Or just go put a price on a game, and then do what you want, free to play doesnt exist in their language

[NobleRipper]

1 hour ago, nightcrow82 said:

That's beyond logic,  kids put more money in games than older people, cause they don't go so much outside to play like sometime in the past. And having a free to play game with not a desent amount of free content, thats an interesting bussiness model i want to see. If they didnt stimulate so much free content in wot like now, nobody would play it, and people will stop plaing this as well. Or just go put a price on a game, and then do what you want, free to play doesnt exist in their language

I often get the impression from the way the game is being increasingly aggressively monetised, that they're trying to grab as much as they can get before the inevitable implosion; can't help but wonder if WG have already estimated an end date for WoWs. Certainly doesn't seem that they're interested in retaining players (or prioritising player satisfaction in general).

[nightcrow82]

13 minutes ago, NobleSauvage said:

I often get the impression from the way the game is being increasingly aggressively monetised, that they're trying to grab as much as they can get before the inevitable implosion; can't help but wonder if WG have already estimated an end date for WoWs. Certainly doesn't seem that they're interested in retaining players (or prioritising player satisfaction).

Like i said, am a returner to the game, i have played it when it came out for short period of time, but i stoped cause i got more seriously into tanks so i coudn't play both at the same time. There was a period on tanks, idk the exact date, but it was when Swedish line was introduced to the game, there was literaly nothing to do in game, beside team and clan battles.. Random MM  was totally broken, almost unplayable, and yet, in game, you had some idiotic little missions on weekly basis and nothing more, just grinding tanks. After 1.0 update, they fixed some of the things like ading tons on content, my guess their player base was depleted due to MM issues and simply nothing to play. today, you literaly don't have a week that somethnig is not happening, side quests, missions, side mods and the game is definitly little back to life, all thoe there are probably more players who grinded the whole tech tree and simply have nothnig to do in game. I am bored with tanks at the moment, thats why i have returned to ships, but it doesnt feel that game wants to go forward, like you said, like they are preparing for closing. If they want to save the game, they have to put more free stuff, especialy free marathons, with options to pay if you want sooner to take the prize, like in tanks.

[NobleRipper]

4 minutes ago, nightcrow82 said:

Like i said, am a returner to the game, i have played it when it came out for short period of time, but i stoped cause i got more seriously into tanks so i coudn't play both at the same time. There was a period on tanks, idk the exact date, but it was when Swedish line was introduced to the game, there was literaly nothing to do in game, beside team and clan battles.. Random MM  was totally broken, almost unplayable, and yet, in game, you had some idiotic little missions on weekly basis and nothing more, just grinding tanks. After 1.0 update, they fixed some of the things like ading tons on content, my guess their player base was depleted due to MM issues and simply nothing to play. today, you literaly don't have a week that somethnig is not happening, side quests, missions, side mods and the game is definitly little back to life, all thoe there are probably more players who grinded the whole tech tree and simply have nothnig to do in game. I am bored with tanks at the moment, thats why i have returned to ships, but it doesnt feel that game wants to go forward, like you said, like they are preparing for closing. If they want to save the game, they have to put more free stuff, especialy free marathons, with options to pay if you want sooner to take the prize, like in tanks.

Interesting; I've not played WoT myself so I'm not familiar with how they do things. One thing that's worth remembering is that, although they're both WG titles and WoWs has lifted most of its core mechanics from WoT, they're actually run by different developer teams. Presumably a lot of the differences are due to different management styles.