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arttuperkunas

Playing around radar as a DD

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As per title. I'm a starting DD player (only now venturing into higher tiers), and I have lots of problems with radar. How do you play around radar? How do you bait radar ships into using up the consumable from a position of safety? Or do you just go to the next cap if there is a DM/Alaska squatting on your cap and your BBs/cruisers are unable to deal with it?

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The basic tactic is to skirt the edge of their radar and spot for your team to blap them. Once they're down you've got more freedom of movement. The trick is ensuring you've always got an escape route - evading radar is relatively easy, even in a slow boat like a Daring - but you need space to run. As for radar baiting - probably not worth the risk against US ships with long radar, but can be used against RU boats if you're confident they're not supported (although Russian laser accuracy, hyperspeed shell velocity, and 99.99% fire chance make this only really worth it if you've got plenty of HP, a heal, and DCP ready

 

Of course, the above tactic does present a couple of problems;

 

1) It relies on your team being in a position to shoot said radar boat - which in the current meta is even less likely than usual

2) It requires your team to have situational awareness 

3) It doesn't work on Russian ships because stealth radar

4) You need to do all this whilst under harassment from the Orbital Strike Platform

5) You'll get neg repped for playing DDs properly, rather than just blindly charging into cap - which is what the map edge humping potato BBs seem to think is the only way to play

 

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4 minutes ago, _Dunc_ said:

The basic tactic is to skirt the edge of their radar and spot for your team to blap them. Once they're down you've got more freedom of movement. The trick is ensuring you've always got an escape route - evading radar is relatively easy, even in a slow boat like a Daring - but you need space to run. As for radar baiting - probably not worth the risk against US ships with long radar, but can be used against RU boats if you're confident they're not supported (although Russian laser accuracy, hyperspeed shell velocity, and 99.99% fire chance make this only really worth it if you've got plenty of HP, a heal, and DCP ready

 

Of course, the above tactic does present a couple of problems;

 

1) It relies on your team being in a position to shoot said radar boat - which in the current meta is even less likely than usual

2) It requires your team to have situational awareness 

3) It doesn't work on Russian ships because stealth radar

4) You need to do all this whilst under harassment from the Orbital Strike Platform

5) You'll get neg repped for playing DDs properly, rather than just blindly charging into cap - which is what the map edge humping potato BBs seem to think is the only way to play

 

What if the radar cruiser is ensconced in a position that your supporting BBs/Cruisers cannot fire on? Just change cap and move on?

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Just now, arttuperkunas said:

What if the radar cruiser is ensconced in a position that your supporting BBs/Cruisers cannot fire on? Just change cap and move on?

Depends really - Risk Assessment is a good thing to be good at in DDs - so if you think it's too risky, go away and find something else to do.

 

However, as someone with 60% overall WR in DDs, mostly played boat being Benham (528 games @ 62%) I will state that in my opinion, DDs aren't really for capping. If a cruiser is covering a cap, don't cap - go out wide, keep him spotted, and spam angry triangles at him. 

 

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It depends. Risk management is the differing factor between potatoe and God tier dds. 

 

Before you make any decision you need information. The important ones are where are a. The radars and b. The dds.

 

Baiting a US radar can simply be done by shooting them from max range and then pretending to try to go dark. If you do this at the edge of their radar range they will have trouble hitting you and you will control their consumable. This is an ideal situation. 

 

Russian radars demand a whole lot more respect, mainly due to the fact that the guns attached to the radar have incredible shell velocity. Either avoid them or pick a fight with another ship just barely within their radar range. You will need a good escape plan though. And contrary to US radars you will like having an island around. 

 

DD radars: Those are the most nasty. I considered it a bad decision when the yy entered the game with radar and this opinion has not changed. Radar on a dd changes the way other dds have to play. Especially in Småland's case,  because of course we needed an eff ton of dpm on top of it. Might just as well unnerf  YY. You cannot really bait those. And in most cases the players playing radar dds will also be rather good players since they will have to play without smoke (except they are playing the Black). Your best bet is team support or a mistake on the enemy's part. Keep in mind that t8+ pan Asian dds can all mount radar. Rpf torps can help as well, but again, it is unlikely you will ambush them. 

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17 minutes ago, _Dunc_ said:

Depends really - Risk Assessment is a good thing to be good at in DDs - so if you think it's too risky, go away and find something else to do.

 

However, as someone with 60% overall WR in DDs, mostly played boat being Benham (528 games @ 62%) I will state that in my opinion, DDs aren't really for capping. If a cruiser is covering a cap, don't cap - go out wide, keep him spotted, and spam angry triangles at him. 

 

I like playing RN DDs, so to be perfectly honest I'm in the cap area mostly to kill other DDs (as that's where you tend to find the little buggers), and secondarily to pick up empty caps if there's no one there or they are already a corpse.

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The main problem i see with DDs so often is, that they are using islands to "be stealthy" and they completely overextend. The downside to not being seen means also, you dont see anything. So once they clear the island, they might be within radar range by several kilometers. And that also means, they dont have any island cover to go back, they need to turn and run away while having to endure full radar duration. Its better to stay close to the island so you can spot. If you spot a radar ship, and it radars, then you can just move behind the island and be safe.

So the first thing to learn is, where do radar ships usually sit. Most of them sit at islands, so they can sneak up to the cap without being seen. Easiest way to learn the islands is play radar ships yourself, or you need to pay attention where you see them.

Very important is also to not get caught bow-in while getting radared. If you are already in kiting position, you will only lose very little HP even when being radared for some time. Thats usually true if you approach a cap early on in the game.

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Vor 2 Minuten, _Dunc_ sagte:

 As for radar baiting - probably not worth the risk against US ships with long radar...

 

@arttuperkunas

Well, as Dunc wrote you wanna stay on the edge of the radar range. When the opponent uses the radar you go out of its range. Therefore the good old "stern first" tactic also apllies here, not only in caps. No problem doing this with US radar, too.

Alternatively use an island as cover and wait out the duration. This actually has the advantage that you can count the seconds how long the radar last as every radar ship can have 3 different durations. But this is already advanced gameplay. 

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A) Be somewhere so you see the radar ship coming + it has to be close to cover so you can yeet behind a rock. You just wasted one of their radars and they won't have one for another 2 minutes.

B) Reverse into their radar range, make them pop radar and yeet out of there.

You can also use radar to get radar cruisers killed. You torp the corner of whatever rock the radar cruiser is sitting behind, then drive into their radar range and drive back out of it, often they will go "omg I used my radar I need to damage the DD with my radar" and peek around the corner to shoot you, into the torps you launched a minute earlier.

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As DFens_666 pointed out, you don't want to clear an island in your DD and find yourself 2 km inside a Baltimore radar.

 

Imho you should make a clear decision when you head into a cap:

 

1) you stay in the open the whole time, so you can spot. As usual, you should enter at an angle and give your stern to the enemy, to minimize your cross-section to guns and torps;

 

OR

 

2) you ram your DD into a fairly large island inside the cap, so that any radar used on you is wasted, since you can be seen but not shot at successfully.

Examples are A and B cap on Greece, possibly the South-West cap on Haven, lateral caps on Hotspot, possibly B cap on Trap, the West cap on Land of Fire, B cap on Neighbors, C cap on Atlantic, C cap on Shatter (almost too popular), and many more in Epicenter mode.

 

You might get stuck there for a bit, but at least you're blocking a cap, and sometimes you'll get it for free after making that Petro over there waste his radar.

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6 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

 

As per title. I'm a starting DD player (only now venturing into higher tiers), and I have lots of problems with radar. How do you play around radar? How do you bait radar ships into using up the consumable from a position of safety? Or do you just go to the next cap if there is a DM/Alaska squatting on your cap and your BBs/cruisers are unable to deal with it?

 

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