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Silent_Hunter94

WR accurate?

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Hi all, I was watching one of the latest Jingles videos for WOT and one of his words kind of struck a note. He said that after a certain amounts of battles, WR is the only statistic that shows how good or bad a player you are. Now, I respect that old man, started playing Wows and Subnautica because of him and his channel is the first one I watch every time I open YouTube, but I can't agree with his words about WR. I am not a great player, sucked till last year, managing to drag my WR to above 51% in the past few months, but my WR doesn't represent how good I am. Like I am above average in Iowa and Monarch, but my win rate is barely 50% in both of them. I started down the Russian cruiser line recently and I am struggling in it. Its not as fun as I expected, but I am scoring above 60k damage consistently and mostly remain in top 3 scorers on my team, but my WR for that entire line is below 35% I guess. I have been having pretty weird teams recently, especially the DD's who manage to regularly get sunk in the first 5 mins.

 

So, I just wanted to know that is WR really that accurate of a parameter of playing level, or does damage and PR count in too?

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5 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

So, I just wanted to know that is WR really that accurate of a parameter of playing level, or does damage and PR count in too?

Short answer: yes, over a large enough number of battles.

 

The other stuff is useful information, but ultimately the crucial question is are you winning or not? For instance, doing tons of damage isn't helpful if it's the wrong sort of damage (healable fire damage on BBs is rarely much use, but blowing a DD out of the water - say - could be a lot more useful).

 

More important: WR only matters in terms of what it can tell you about how you're doing personally; don't get too hung up over worrying about how it compares to everyone else...

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It kind of is yes, but you have to take divisions into account. Damage obviously helps too, but that one is much more dependant on the class and ship that is being played. PR on the other hand is derived from wr, damage and K/D ratio, which makes it easy for it to be influenced and therefore not too accurate.

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5 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

So, I just wanted to know that is WR really that accurate of a parameter of playing level,

Yes.

Damage is not a precise parameter, as damage has a different value to the team, depending on what you do damage to and when.

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Ignore WR. If you lose most of your games but always end up first or second in your team, WR means pretty much nothing.

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5 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Ignore WR. If you lose most of your games but always end up first or second in your team, WR means pretty much nothing.

 

Thats what every Thundelel player is saying to himself after farming 150k HE damage on BBs while sitting in spawn :Smile_hiding:

 

17 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

Like I am above average in Iowa and Monarch, but my win rate is barely 50% in both of them. I started down the Russian cruiser line recently and I am struggling in it. Its not as fun as I expected, but I am scoring above 60k damage consistently and mostly remain in top 3 scorers on my team, but my WR for that entire line is below 35% I guess.

 

Damage in itself means very little. DDs win games, so dealing damage to DDs is very important. Not only does it cripple the enemy team, but your own DDs also get more freedom. So even dealing less damage can be worth more, depending on whom you deal it on.

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10 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Ignore WR. If you lose most of your games but always end up first or second in your team, WR means pretty much nothing.

 

Those A line thunderers usually end up top 3 because they stay alive till the end spamming HE. Did they have any impact into the game?

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Yes you can use WR to analyse someones Performance as long as he/she had played a large enough Number of Battles.

WR can be increased a bit by playing the Ships you like instead of grinding through the Ships you dislike.

And Divisions with good or very good Players has a Huge Effect.

Keep in Mind that the Average Player has a WR around 48%. So I can definitly say that you are doing Fine.

I would also check how the WR is changing. If the Player was a bad Player in the Past but has now learnt how to play and is actually quite good now, he will still have a Bad WR but this WR is going up cosistantly.

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20 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

So, I just wanted to know that is WR really that accurate of a parameter of playing level, or does damage and PR count in too?

 

Just to show, how little weight behind damage is, ill ask you a few questions:

What do you think, is worth more? 20k damage on DDs or 25k damage on Battleships?

What do you think, is worth more, when playing Thunderer? 80k fire and HE damage on Battleships or 50k AP damage to citadels of radar cruisers?

 

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2 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I would also check how the WR is changing. If the Player was a bad Player in the Past but has now learnt how to play and is actually quite good now, he will still have a Bad WR but this WR is going up cosistantly.

 

You can dig deep into the development on proships.ru, like you can filter the results of a specific timeframe, say games from only 2021: https://proships.ru/stat/eu/p/540427929-ForlornSailor/all/h/2021-01-05~2021-03-17/

I mostly use it for myself but can be used ofc to evalute any player, if you really want to go the extra mile ^^

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Due to the law of large numbers (look it up), your win rate will represent your skill level if you have played enough games.

However, the win rate can be skewed by limiting yourself to only playing in divisions, with OP ships/classes and/or at lower tiers where you are more likely to be more experienced than the other players. Fortunately, this is quite easy to discover.

 

If you are still not convinced, here's an example with coin flips:

After 1000 flips, the distribution of results is 50/50 (we ignore the fact that one of the side is slightly heavier due to unsymmetry). This is our baseline.

Now, let's add some weight to one side of the coin which is your contribution. After 1000 new flips, the distribution is 60/40.

 

One flip can go either way, but with enough samples, the result will match the expectations. Granted, in WoWs, it is one constant weight on one side of the coin and 23 being randomly added to either side until the result is 12 weights on each, but the result will still be the same: your contribution will be shown in the end given a large enough sample size.

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21 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Ignore WR. If you lose most of your games but always end up first or second in your team, WR means pretty much nothing.

If you always come top but generally lose, wild guess such a player sits back and rarely helps out...

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3 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Just to show, how little weight behind damage is, ill ask you a few questions:

What do you think, is worth more? 20k damage on DDs or 25k damage on Battleships?

What do you think, is worth more, when playing Thunderer? 80k fire and HE damage on Battleships or 50k AP damage to citadels of radar cruisers?

 

TBH, burning a battleship down is as fun as citadeling a cruiser. Definitely damaging DD's on first question, one I enjoy doing quite a lot in Soviet CA's recently.

 

6 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

Yes you can use WR to analyse someones Performance as long as he/she had played a large enough Number of Battles.

WR can be increased a bit by playing the Ships you like instead of grinding through the Ships you dislike.

And Divisions with good or very good Players has a Huge Effect.

Keep in Mind that the Average Player has a WR around 48%. So I can definitly say that you are doing Fine.

I would also check how the WR is changing. If the Player was a bad Player in the Past but has now learnt how to play and is actually quite good now, he will still have a Bad WR but this WR is going up cosistantly.

Ahh see there is the thing. I have 55% WR in Akatsuki with 84 matches played, but I suck in that thing, barely crossing 20k damage in that.

 

9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats what every Thundelel player is saying to himself after farming 150k HE damage on BBs while sitting in spawn :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Damage in itself means very little. DDs win games, so dealing damage to DDs is very important. Not only does it cripple the enemy team, but your own DDs also get more freedom. So even dealing less damage can be worth more, depending on whom you deal it on.

 

not to forget how fun it is damaging a DD at more than 10km range

23 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yes.

Damage is not a precise parameter, as damage has a different value to the team, depending on what you do damage to and when.

Once again I would quote my Akatsuki stats, but that maybe an exception.

 

27 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Short answer: yes, over a large enough number of battles.

 

The other stuff is useful information, but ultimately the crucial question is are you winning or not? For instance, doing tons of damage isn't helpful if it's the wrong sort of damage (healable fire damage on BBs is rarely much use, but blowing a DD out of the water - say - could be a lot more useful).

 

More important: WR only matters in terms of what it can tell you about how you're doing personally; don't get too hung up over worrying about how it compares to everyone else...

yeah, but at the end of that day, the red numbers on my stats feel bad. :D

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WR alone is not really a good indicator. Better than the other possibilities but still not good.

If you really want to analyze someone's statistics you have to look at all the available stats (wr, damage, hit ratio, frags, etc.) and compare them to the average values of the ship. You also have to know the role of a ship to be able to interpret them in the right way (you don't need lots of damage if the ship's main focus is hunting DDs, in that case more frags per battle and a higher WR is better than lots of damage).

 

So yes, if you only need a first impression, look at the WR, IF the player in question has played more than 1000 games (everything below is not enough to eliminate most of the influence of RNG).

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Vor 1 Minute, Nibenay78 sagte:

If you always come top but generally lose, wild guess such a player sits back and rarely helps out...

Totally wrong guess. Everybody else but me sitting back (idiot class) or dying within minutes (yolo class).

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Yes because stats are very important in an RNG based game that's entirely balanced around p2w, that allows groups to customize their loadouts with said p2w ships to farm the most clueless playerbase in gaming.

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Vor 9 Minuten, ForlornSailor sagte:

 

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/p/540427929-ForlornSailor/all/h/2021-01-05~2021-03-17/

I mostly use it for myself but can be used ofc to evalute any player, if you really want to go the extra mile ^^

Yo, Captain Vodka, where is English version of this site?

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39 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

 I started down the Russian cruiser line recently and I am struggling in it. Its not as fun as I expected, but I am scoring above 60k damage consistently and mostly remain in top 3 scorers on my team, but my WR for that entire line is below 35% I guess. I have been having pretty weird teams recently, especially the DD's who manage to regularly get sunk in the first 5 mins.

I feel your pain m8 HOWEVER 25k damage dealt to the 2 enemy DDs is worth more to the team then 130k dealt to their deadeying BBs...

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12 minutes ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

Yo, Captain Vodka, where is English version of this site?

 

In Gulag? :Smile_unsure:

 

18 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

Ahh see there is the thing. I have 55% WR in Akatsuki with 84 matches played, but I suck in that thing, barely crossing 20k damage in that.

 

Damage with DDs is often less important compared to other classes.

If you get caps, spot or kill enemy DDs and then spot for your team while being a potential torp-threat, you can help win games with it and end up with 20-30k damage.

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16 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

TBH, burning a battleship down is as fun as citadeling a cruiser.

This may be true, but the latter is a *lot* more likely to win you games. This is an illustration of what I (and others) mean about the sort of damage; I mainly play DDs, and I rejoice if the enemy is focusing on my side's BBs, as it means a couple of things - firstly, they don't know about target priorities, and secondly they're shooting at the ships on my team whose primary job is to tank i.e. the ships that are built to be pounded, not the targets that actually matter.

 

If you want to win, concern yourself less with pure damage, and much more with doing the right damage: the side that sinks the opposing DDs and radar ships (i.e. the really influential targets) first, rather than only racking up big damage numbers, usually wins. Also, recall that although damage drives rewards, there is more than this to winning (which is why I hate having Deadeye BBs on my side, for example).

 

22 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

yeah, but at the end of that day, the red numbers on my stats feel bad. :D

Well, we all want lots of purple on our stats (which, alas, isn't going to happen for me until a little while after the heat death of the universe), but don't worry overly - just use your stats to benchmark how you're doing personally, and where you need to focus...

 

(Stats can also allow you to weight someone's views and the experience/perspective behind them e.g. my views on BBs are very much not derived from playing them a lot against real people.)

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1 hour ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

Hi all, I was watching one of the latest Jingles videos for WOT and one of his words kind of struck a note. He said that after a certain amounts of battles, WR is the only statistic that shows how good or bad a player you are. Now, I respect that old man, started playing Wows and Subnautica because of him and his channel is the first one I watch every time I open YouTube, but I can't agree with his words about WR. I am not a great player, sucked till last year, managing to drag my WR to above 51% in the past few months, but my WR doesn't represent how good I am. Like I am above average in Iowa and Monarch, but my win rate is barely 50% in both of them. I started down the Russian cruiser line recently and I am struggling in it. Its not as fun as I expected, but I am scoring above 60k damage consistently and mostly remain in top 3 scorers on my team, but my WR for that entire line is below 35% I guess. I have been having pretty weird teams recently, especially the DD's who manage to regularly get sunk in the first 5 mins.

 

So, I just wanted to know that is WR really that accurate of a parameter of playing level, or does damage and PR count in too?

in the end it's kind all of em in relation to each other. while, with growing number of games, wr is an indicator. but, as being said, this can be influenced by f.e. div-play. some factors weigh more, some way less, wr quite some. just as recent stats, depending on numbers. u might suck in the start, but evolve and such alike. or just play 3k+ hosho matches, aKa stats padding :Smile_veryhappy:

 

in the end it's all more of an indicator, rather than the holy grail of wisdom. sometimes one rocks, sometimes one sux and sometimes one get carried..... and sometimes, yeah well.... sometimes nothing can carry a wows team :Smile_veryhappy:

 

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1 hour ago, inkedsoulz said:

 

Those A line thunderers usually end up top 3 because they stay alive till the end spamming HE. Did they have any impact into the game?

yes they did have an impact, it was lost because of them

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I think Potato Quality put it quite well in one of his videos. Basically you "automatically" win in about 30% of games and in 30% of games loose no matter what you do. It is where between 30% and 70% WR you are is reflecting how much positive impact you can have on battle.

 

BTW Damage doesn't win battles. My personal damage records in Ranked and in Randoms were both a loss. In Ranked if I got only 1 more kill instead of damage, this would be a win. In Random no matter how much damage I did, I could not influence results enough. Actually I plan to upload both battles with title "Damage Does Not Win Battles".

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2 hours ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

So, I just wanted to know that is WR really that accurate of a parameter of playing level, or does damage and PR count in too?

WR is the only important stat.

As Yourself stated: "I am scoring above 60k damage consistently and mostly remain in top 3 scorers on my team, but my WR for that entire line is below 35%" which proves that doing damage is not enough to win battles. Usually players that concentrate on doing damage neglect playing for the important thing, like defending their cap, supporting their allies, trying to win the battle... and suchlike.

So no, damage and PR - which is based on damage nearly inclusively - don't mean sh*t.

Except that getting a Unicorn PR in a won battle feels f*cking nice... :cap_cool:

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2 hours ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

Yo, Captain Vodka, where is English version of this site?

Sadly doesnt exist. With some add-ons in the browser you can auto-translate it.

2 hours ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

TBH, burning a battleship down is as fun as citadeling a cruiser. Definitely damaging DD's on first question, one I enjoy doing quite a lot in Soviet CA's recently.

Ok, fun is one thing, maybe I should have worded it different, as in "which has more impact towards winning the game".

 

At the end of the day, you will have to decide whats more important for yourself. You can push your playstyle towards winning more games or you focus completly on farming damage. The definition of a "good player" also depends on many other things, especially decison making. Can you read the game? do you know, what you need to do in a certain situation? Those things often dont reflect in the stats or if they do, they improve the WR. And thats why some guys take WR as the key-meassurement for player skill.

 

 

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