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GloomFD

DDs without Survivability Expert?

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After the glorious and succesful commander rework, seems like 75% of DDs are without Survivability Expert. I have it in all of my DDs, from T4 to T10.  With current state of game, CVs and radars, seems quite dumb to not to have it. Or maybe I am missing something. Your thoughts please

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I don't feel I need it. Upping torp damage chances.

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When I see DDs without SE I immediately assume they're ultra bad and 99/100 times my assumption is right. 

Like... Why the F wouldn't you take 20% extra hp!?!? That's as valuable as concealment expert. 

 

Especially IJN DD players seem to be prone to this. BeCaUsE mE tOrPbOtE mE sTeALtHy. Sigh. 

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1 hour ago, GloomFD said:

Your thoughts please

Generally it's the 1st 3-point skill you'd want, but there are exceptions: if you have a heal (Soviet T8+ DDs, Pan Euro line, Kidd...) the extra consumables skill gives you (potentially) the same hp, maybe a bit less without the Dreadnought flag and a bit more with it, as well as an extra smoke, Def AA, speed boost or whatever.

You're more likely to die to a torpedo, but you can make more use of Adrenaline Rush and get Dreadnoughts a lot more often.

 

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I use it on every DD except for fun DDs like Shima, Somers or Yugumo. They are good enough to clap randoms even with a 10-point captain, for more competitive modes I would choose other DDs and a build with SE.

 

The choice boils down to this: Do I want to fight DDs myself? If yes SE is a must. With the aforementioned DDs I avoid gunfights unless I have a big advantage or the game is lost anyway, so I tend to torp and/or spot the DDs to death. HP and gun-dpm isn't critical so I have no SE, I take 'Swift in Silence' instead. It's basically a perma-speedboost that allows me to reposition quicker to have more impact in a battle. My Yugumo build for example:

https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PJSD209&modules=11111&upgrades=000000&commander=PCW001&consumables=111&pos=0

When I get 21 points I'll pick AR.

 

'No smoke and no SE, are you mental? What if a CV wants you dead?' Even if I play a full AA DD (LUL) with SE he will kill me, he will ruin my game regardless what I do so I don't bother. (I don't just roll over and die, I will still try to make the best out of the terrible situation of playing a battle with CVs present.) This fun build works for me, you might want to pick other skills depending on your play style.

In general, for randoms I focus a bit more on main-armament-dpm over survivability. Why gimp my dpm when most enemies I will face are harmless for me? There is a good number of viable skills to pick from. Fearless brawler is fun on gunboats except for smokers like Daring, concealment is obviously the strongest but not always mandatory. Also, AFT is an awesome skill that allows you to greet BBs from a distance with a golden shower.

 

Looking forward to Garrus' reaction. :cap_haloween:

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SE is my first 3-pt skill on almost all DDs, except the early torpedo boats. On the torpboats I find I catch my prey off guard with the faster reload, cause they just don't expect the fast reload. That works especially when your first torpedo attack is from greater distance, so the torps reach the target late, while the second attack is from near to detection range. That further decreases the time between attacks and many players don't expect that.

Still, SE is the 5th skill to pick on torp boats.

 

SE in general is a no-brainer in any build. Maybe you pick it later, but you gotta have it. The reason is simple: It is a straight 10% buff to what determines your survivabilty. In the old system one could argue it didn't make a difference to have BFT or SE, since killing an enemy 10% faster or having 10% more hp means pretty much the same: Having 10% of your ships hp left after a duel.

 

But since the rework, BFT has been replaced by two nerfed versions of the skill. There simply is no skill comparable to SE. Main Battery and AA Specialist is just a 5% buff to guns. Fill the tubes is just for half your armament, cause still on torp boats you will use your guns, so it does not increase your total damage by 10%, but just the portion of your damage caused by torps.

 

SI seems like a similar skill. But e.g. on Daring that is one extra charge of your heal. So you get 100% hp + 3 * 10% = 130% hp. If you take SE however, you get 110% hp + 2 * 11% = 132% hp. So technically SE gives more hp and on top of that you can use the extra hp immediately, while on SI you need to survive long enough to get to your third heal. You will have 110% immediately and be able to use another 11% as soon as needed, which give you 121% to work with on your first encounter. In comparison a SI-built DD has 100% and a 10% heal at his disposal, which is only 110%. Those 11% difference can make the difference of surviving your first encounter and going back to port. So I would argue that SE is in fact a no-brainer.

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Shooty gun gunboat DDs yes.  Sneaky torpedo boats no.

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5 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Especially IJN DD players seem to be prone to this. BeCaUsE mE tOrPbOtE mE sTeALtHy. Sigh. 

Players like that allow me to get Die Hard flags in my Halland when ramming their Shimas :cap_cool:

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Pre rework it was amazing how many more BBs used hp Perk than dds. The hp Perk skill on dds is very important, because there are mainly gun dds around and CVs that like chasing dds you have to be in a really useless position to not get damaged. I guess 20km Shimas dont have this problem, they rarely  get useful.

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1. I am bad at DDs

2. All my DDs have SE.

3. That's all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Even in a Shima, why not take the extra HP? I am "stealthy", but I always move in to trade some blows when advantageous and Yamamoto knows I need the extra health then).

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SE is a less riskier way to play DDs. I just checked and found out  that all my DDs except one (which is ok in that case)  have SE.

SE will improve your chances of surviving longer and hence more chances of impacting the game, simple logic.

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3 minutes ago, Execute0rder66 said:

all my DDs except one (which is ok in that case)  have SE

 

Can I ask what DD is that? :)

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I have it on all tier 8 and higher DDs.. regardless of the type.. 

Except shima.. I want people to think that I'm a border loving 20km torp shima noob.. 

 

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17 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

 

Can I ask what DD is that? :)

Sure :) It is Halland.

I have Halland on two accounts. Pre-work, they both had SE.

Post-rework, I built one with SE one without SE but instead with Swift in Silence just to see the difference in game impact.

Swift in silence is actually handy. You know Halland has medium to slow speed compared to other DDs. Swift in Silence adds 2,8 knots to its 35knots base speed. If you add the speed flag, it goes up to 39.6knots. With the speed boost you are sailing between 42-43 knots. But using this perk requires more caution as you are lacking around 3K in HP and relying more on an objective play. Capping, spotting and  torping and situational gun boating (for instance, if you see an IJN DD).

The Halland with SE on my second account has more HP but to be honest, it feels more boring to play 'cuz it's slow. Going from one side of the map to another takes forever.

 

Tl; Dr, Halland not having SE in one account was/is experimental :)

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Im completely with @GarrusBrutuson this on. It is just so mandatory that I will immediately doubt any player not running it. On any dd.

 

@Ze_Reckless. The reason you run it on shima is so you can take a gearing or even jap torp not named type 93. It forgives the one lucky hit you might take. Also radar cruisers, also ar (the higher the base number, the wider the percentage, having more hp gives you the reload bonus faster in real time).

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Il y a 7 heures, GloomFD a dit :

After the glorious and succesful commander rework, seems like 75% of DDs are without Survivability Expert. I have it in all of my DDs, from T4 to T10.  With current state of game, CVs and radars, seems quite dumb to not to have it. Or maybe I am missing something. Your thoughts please

I don't play DDs without :

PM

LS

SE

CE

 That the minimum for all my DDs. 

 

I thinking DDs who don't play with SE is thiking more HP on DDs is no importante because this class is too fragile. 

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Depending on mood I don't use SE on Grozovoi as SI (or whatever is the name now) is mandatory there due to low number of critical consumables (smoke, heal) ... other than that I have SE on all my DDs as I do gunboat with EVERY DD when I have the opportunity ...

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1 hour ago, Execute0rder66 said:

Sure :) It is Halland.

I have Halland on two accounts. Pre-work, they both had SE.

Post-rework, I built one with SE one without SE but instead with Swift in Silence just to see the difference in game impact.

Swift in silence is actually handy. You know Halland has medium to slow speed compared to other DDs. Swift in Silence adds 2,8 knots to its 35knots base speed. If you add the speed flag, it goes up to 39.6knots. With the speed boost you are sailing between 42-43 knots. But using this perk requires more caution as you are lacking around 3K in HP and relying more on an objective play. Capping, spotting and  torping and situational gun boating (for instance, if you see an IJN DD).

The Halland with SE on my second account has more HP but to be honest, it feels more boring to play 'cuz it's slow. Going from one side of the map to another takes forever.

 

Tl; Dr, Halland not having SE in one account was/is experimental :)

 

Interesting. Thanks for explaining.

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1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

I have it on all tier 8 and higher DDs.. regardless of the type.. 

Except shima.. I want people to think that I'm a border loving 20km torp shima noob.. 

 

 

Most people dont even notice SE.

Vast majority have no clue how much base HP ships without SE have (including me) :)

 

So ... you are nerfing your shima while people don't even noticed that :P

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Just now, nambr9 said:

 

Most people dont even notice SE.

Vast majority have no clue how much base HP ships without SE have (including me) :)

 

So ... you are nerfing your shima while people don't even noticed that :P

If you need extra health in your shima.. 

you are doing something wrong. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

If you need extra health in your shima.. 

you are doing something wrong. 

 

 

Oh cmon .. there are at least 5 situations that come in mind where that few thousands HP can save you and consequently also your team.

 

CV is only one of them :)

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1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

@Ze_Reckless. The reason you run it on shima is so you can take a gearing or even jap torp not named type 93. It forgives the one lucky hit you might take. Also radar cruisers, also ar (the higher the base number, the wider the percentage, having more hp gives you the reload bonus faster in real time).

 

I know that and I agree that the average player shouldn't play without SE. I prefer to buff my offensive capabilities. If I do happen to eat a torp I take it as a slap to the neck for my stupidity.

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8 hours ago, GloomFD said:

Your thoughts please

It saves me time, no need to alt-tab to MMM to know that particular DD is going to be very useless.
Or he's playing 4D chess and pretending to be useless like @Excavatus but I don't think that's very common.

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