What's with the anti-cruiser focus in development?

[Itwastuesday]

You get KM carrier that's best at killing cruiser. AP rockets that have basically no other good target and AP bombs

 

A skill rework that seems to want battleships to snipe and cruisers to have no stealth

 

You get Italian battleships that have SAP that doesn't deal damage to destroyers like you'd expect. Instead they're the best against cruisers because no overpens and no battleship armor to shatter

 

Now in the works a destroyer line that's designed to hunt light cruisers nobody plays anyway, and a premium destroyer that perhaps can actually do it unlike the poor germans

 

What's going on? There's plenty of these 6 battleships, 5 destroyers per side games already. Wouldn't it have made more sense to make a cruiser line that's really good at hitting battleships?

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

Yea, I don't know. I mean I still play cruisers that I like, but much less. It's just not much fun anymore.

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Wouldn't it have made more sense to make a cruiser line that's really good at hitting battleships?

 

When WG does that, the outcry is outrageous

- Stalingrad

- Petro

- Even Austin seems to be OP to some people, because it can melt a BB "fast".

 

Also you forgot more and more BBs, which have armor to shatter HE shells

- Germans

- Russians

- Italians

- Could also add the US BBs, since they have 38mm midsection...

 

I can only guess that WG is making Cruisers obsolete first, and then god only knows what they will do to DDs after that, so we can have World of BBs.

[Itwastuesday]

5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Also you forgot more and more BBs, which have armor to shatter HE shells

- Germans

- Russians

- Italians

- Could also add the US BBs, since they have 38mm midsection...

 

I can only guess that WG is making Cruisers obsolete first, and then god only knows what they will do to DDs after that, so we can have World of BBs.

Well yeah, and accurate overmatch battleships, sure, but those were in before say the paneu DD. 

 

Also Stalingrad and Petropavlovsk conveniently have great armor vs. cruisers and great AP to screw cruisers over with. 

[1MajorKoenig]

9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

can only guess that WG is making Cruisers obsolete first,

Beware of the „Cruiser Rework“... 

 

19 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

You get KM carrier that's best at killing cruiser. AP rockets that have basically no other good target and AP bombs

 

A skill rework that seems to want battleships to snipe and cruisers to have no stealth

 

You get Italian battleships that have SAP that doesn't deal damage to destroyers like you'd expect. Instead they're the best against cruisers because no overpens and no battleship armor to shatter

 

Now in the works a destroyer line that's designed to hunt light cruisers nobody plays anyway, and a premium destroyer that perhaps can actually do it unlike the poor germans

 

What's going on? There's plenty of these 6 battleships, 5 destroyers per side games already. Wouldn't it have made more sense to make a cruiser line that's really good at hitting battleships?

Hmm.. you forget that a lot of ships are even advertised as cruiser-killers.. 

 

Agree on your point though - Cruisers should probably get a little love. I mean on a broader level Cruisers are supposed to be the Allrounders. I get it that there are some very spezialized examples but that was the role of these initially.

 

Considering that it is a shame that the skill rework did not support the possibility to build Cruisers much more into different roles. Actually for most Cruisers there is just one (roughly) viable build at the moment no?

 

Although - to be fair the limited mechanics won’t allow for a whole lot of variation to begin with. Lob shells over islands, lob shells from far away, lob shells from smoke. And try not to get blapped. 
 

I mean - what kind of specialization would we be looking at?

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Beware of the „Cruiser Rework“... 

 

 

2 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Actually for most Cruisers there is just one (roughly) viable build at the moment no?

 

Id hardly call that even a build... after like 10-13/14 points there is almost nothing worth taking. You just pick whatever feels less useless.

[Cirno9999]

i still like us heavy cruisers , but i usually play co-op and operations, but probably cruiser skill tree did lots to the change in player moving to main other ships

well wait for skip bombs and subs xD

usually i would go for the stuff that benefits your ship most like Adrenaline rush , expert loader , demoman , concealment and so on

[ForlornSailor]

11 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

you forget that a lot of ships are even advertised as cruiser-killers

 

Its the same with DDs. All they do these days, is to introduce DD-hunter-DDs. With no smoke so you can be victimized yourself. But its even pushing people into this playstyle, ive seen it now a few times, when I play DD, that the enemy DD just suicides himself into me, just for the sake of trading, even very early game. I sometimes ask then "why?" but I dont get an answer. Feels like people think, they wont survive long either way so lets just grab some damage quick and go to the next game...

Kinda miss the ooold days, when you were battling it out with a DD for 15 mins around a cap, both beeing sneaky, smart and causious. then after the game, you´d sometime even send port messages, exchanging how the game went from your PoV and why you did what you did... good times.

[Odo_Toothless]

41 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

You get Italian battleships that have SAP (...) Instead they're the best against cruisers because no overpens and no battleship armor to shatter

I don't think so SAP is so good vs cruisers (mayby a few ones). With AP any hit in armor belt could be a citadel, while SAP with 96 mm of pen just shatters on most of them ... It seems generally that SAP is good as plunging fire on BB decks.

[COPlUM]

Aye, it is a worrying trend, I haven't been playing cruisers at all lately, the one that still "works" for me is rangemod + spotter plane Hindenburg so you can farm battleships from 25km but I feel like a clown doing it and it's boring. I really hope the rework gets reworked and please don't just give my deadeye ships a free respec, I ruined all my cruisers to adapt to the deadeye sniping nonsense. Do a full free respec, doesn't have to be 4 weeks like last time but please do it for all ships.

[arttuperkunas]

29 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Well yeah, and accurate overmatch battleships, sure, but those were in before say the paneu DD. 

 

Also Stalingrad and Petropavlovsk conveniently have great armor vs. cruisers and great AP to screw cruisers over with. 

Petro does not do particularly well against same tier cruisers, at least if they don't play like fools (i.e. if they angle). Petro has bad long range accuracy, pathetic HE and its AP does not overmatch cruisers. I don't own the Stalingrad so can't say as to that.

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

27 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Its the same with DDs. All they do these days, is to introduce DD-hunter-DDs. With no smoke so you can be victimized yourself. But its even pushing people into this playstyle, ive seen it now a few times, when I play DD, that the enemy DD just suicides himself into me, just for the sake of trading, even very early game. I sometimes ask then "why?" but I dont get an answer. Feels like people think, they wont survive long either way so lets just grab some damage quick and go to the next game...

Kinda miss the ooold days, when you were battling it out with a DD for 15 mins around a cap, both beeing sneaky, smart and causious. then after the game, you´d sometime even send port messages, exchanging how the game went from your PoV and why you did what you did... good times.

Well, grandpa, that was before the game had an influx of play-while-watching-twitch-and-downloading-pr0n twitch-gamers with the attention span of a fly. Also, before the game got so sprawling, that people can't keep mechanics straight. It does seem like fun times, though.

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

15 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Petro does not do particularly well against same tier cruisers, at least if they don't play like fools (i.e. if they angle). Petro has bad long range accuracy, pathetic HE and its AP does not overmatch cruisers. I don't own the Stalingrad so can't say as to that.

I weep for poor Petropavlovsk. Buff it now!

 

(Not saying you're wrong, but please)

[arttuperkunas]

1 hour ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

I weep for poor Petropavlovsk. Buff it now!

 

(Not saying you're wrong, but please)

I'm not saying it's weak, just correcting an error of fact. Petropavlovsk does not need buffs.

[Camperdown]

3 words: World of BaBBies

[Nit0]

I still play a lot of cruisers and have fun with it, most of the times I die it's my own fault really. 

[NorShii]

I refuse to play any cruiser that isn't Prinz Eugen, because heals and 6 torps on each side 

[xKamizholx]

Maybe when subs will finally comes out, BBs will suffer and cruiser will be more efficient thx to hydro and maniability etc...

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, xKamizholx said:

Maybe when subs will finally comes out, BBs will suffer and cruiser will be more efficient thx to hydro and maniability etc...

 

I kinda doubt it.

BBs sitting in the backline, so subs have to go through DDs/Cruisers first. But Sub can just spot DDs/Cruisers so others, especially BBs, can shoot them from safety.

To me its just another tool against pushing. You push up = you get spotted and die. Regardless of which ship you are. DDs would need to suicide to combat Subs, and so do Cruisers. If a BB pushes up, the Sub can just farm it.

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

4 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

What's going on? There's plenty of these 6 battleships, 5 destroyers per side games already. Wouldn't it have made more sense to make a cruiser line that's really good at hitting battleships?

yes make it even harder for cruisers to realize they are supposed to hunt DDs

thats definitely going to motivate BBs to move forward

because there arnt enough HE damage farming ships in the game 

all great ideas that are definitely not the cause of the current meta 

[DFens_666]

12 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

thats definitely going to motivate BBs to move forward

 

Do you really believe, ANYTHING would cause BBabies to move up from spawn? Well, unless you reduce their range ofc, but even then..eh, they might just wait for something else to come into their range. Or they all start using rangemod+spotter plane

[HystericalAccuracy]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

I kinda doubt it.

BBs sitting in the backline, so subs have to go through DDs/Cruisers first. But Sub can just spot DDs/Cruisers so others, especially BBs, can shoot them from safety.

To me its just another tool against pushing.

My observation in the live sub-test was that people pushed in far more than in usual modes without submarines. Maybe due to the fact that BBs were limited to three per side. Six campers instead of ten, that´s a noticeable difference.

Or maybe those who are willing to test a new mode are also those who tend to lead the charge in general.

 

26 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

because there arnt enough HE damage farming ships in the game 

all great ideas that are definitely not the cause of the current meta 

I remember a game where I took a BB and ended up in a 12 on 12 BB-match. What happened was that still everyone camped and still got farmed to death by HE. GK was certainly not designed as a HE-farmer but his captains try to.

 

It´s the players, they want it safe and easy and for most of them the ideal game would actually be one where they aren´t getting shot back

Spoiler

 

[Han_Sh0t_First]

I am still trying to brawl in my Kurfurst - Secondary Specced. 

 

Yah, it may leave me in the dust on the scoreboard, but at least I am having fun for 10 minutes (If that), dying in a blaze of glory, instead of sitting 25km away with a Deadeye build, bored to death. 

 

As for cruisers. I simply given up - I used to looooooove playing my Siegfried, again secondary specced, but these days you might aswell run with a lighthouse build and spam BB from 25 km away. 

 

It's weird times. 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Do you really believe, ANYTHING would cause BBabies to move up from spawn? Well, unless you reduce their range ofc, but even then..eh, they might just wait for something else to come into their range. Or they all start using rangemod+spotter plane

BBs moving forward is about as likely as crysers not abandoning them at the first sight of danger when they do

 

in the end its not just BBs that are the problem, the entire game is a mess 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 hour ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

BBs moving forward is about as likely as crysers not abandoning them at the first sight of danger when they do

 

in the end its not just BBs that are the problem, the entire game is a mess 

BBs aren't the only problem... but probably are the source for many problems with cruisers and DDs.

And the main reason for ALL problems is WG needing more money for vodka and females of negotiable virtue. Getting more money is more important than to have a balanced game. New players like to have OP ships and are ready to pay for them. In fact they are ready to pay for about everything, that might give them "an edge", especially when they are from the breed of "Potatogous Whalii" (Potato with very deep pockets full of shinies).

Veteran players spend a lot less money in game. So they aren't that important for WG. They are only needed to make the new players spend more money.

In the end, stopping to play cruisers and DDs would be the only thing to do. Or to go full CoOp... when the MM queue has 0 cruisers, 0 DDs and only BBs and CVs something might (!!!) happen.