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Redfame

State of secondary builds

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Hi folks
Had a game to day where i could really test out my secondarys on my GKF, first of all, yea my guns where hitting left and right ofc... German guns... 10km on a montana and i got 2 overpens whii... Non the less! i could finaly do something ive wanted for a long time! Get a percentage hit rate of my full secondary build GKF and... wow... WG really doesnt like german BB's... Of 1390 shots fired 341 hit... thats a hit rate of 24.5%... come on WG... Help german mains out a bit will ya?
image.png.eaeefc47eec39b8458bb206669197cc2.png

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6 minutes ago, Redfame said:

come on WG... Help german mains out a bit will ya?

They buffed secondary accuracy on german bbs by 35% if I remember correctly before 0.10.0 went live. Secondary builds haven't been good for years by the way, they didn't suddenly become not-good in 0.10.0 - I know they're fun, but they're not very good. And should they be good? You're not doing anything, the AI is doing it for you. Tank build German BBs are great, they can take a beating and they got quasi American accuracy years ago. I'd seriously consider speccing out of secondaries if I was you

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12 minutes ago, Redfame said:

Of 1390 shots fired 341 hit... thats a hit rate of 24.5%... come on WG... Help german mains out a bit will ya?

 

Did your secondaries fire on both sides? If so, then one side shot without accuracy bonus, which automatically lowers the hitrate.

Also i dont think 83k secondary damage calls for additional buffs...

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What you have to realise (just like with AA):  "The truth is: there is no spoon."

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The damage is not bad, but too unfocussed.

The Manual Secondary Skill should be slightly improved (-35% to -45%, maybe even -50%).

 

Overall the skill rework was a mixed bag for secondary BB.

While one cannot say how many ships are played with that setup, the general effect of the rework looks like this:

image.thumb.png.fabe7804af9e183e16376250002a15ae.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

KM BB performance did not change much, thx to the last minute improvement of their secondaries base dispersion pattern. The US BB did not get that and they seem to be more negativly affected

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5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The damage is not bad, but too unfocussed.

The Manual Secondary Skill should be slightly improved (-35% to -45%, maybe even -50%).

 

Overall the skill rework was a mixed bag for secondary BB.

While one cannot say how many ships are played with that setup, the general effect of the rework looks like this:

image.thumb.png.fabe7804af9e183e16376250002a15ae.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

 

KM BB performance did not change much, thx to the last minute improvement of their secondaries base dispersion pattern. The US BB did not get that and they seem to be more negativly affected

Interesting numbers - but you are comparing overall numbers, correct? So we don’t know if the playstyle shifted away from the secondary brawls more towards mid and long range fights?

 

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

35% to -45%, maybe even -50%).

Agree - something around 45 - 50% sounds about right 

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And the french secondary memes are dead and buried.:Smile_sad:

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8 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Interesting numbers - but you are comparing overall numbers, correct? So we don’t know if the playstyle shifted away from the secondary brawls more towards mid and long range fights?

Yes, overall numbers. Unfortunately we cannot know how the ships are setup. But I am pretty sure that WG can sort their stats that way.

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Secondaries should be nerfed even more

 

they dont involve any human skill

 

just pick a turtle citadel ship with good secondaries and press w and sometimes a-s-d

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4 minutes ago, EnacheV said:

Secondaries should be nerfed even more

 

they dont involve any human skill

 

just pick a turtle citadel ship with good secondaries and press w and sometimes a-s-d

... and get shot to pieces.

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21 minutes ago, EnacheV said:

Secondaries should be nerfed even more

they dont involve any human skill

just pick a turtle citadel ship with good secondaries and press w and sometimes a-s-d

I don't like secondary builds either but you're trivializing it, they still need to use brain.exe for where and when to push, ships melt if they just rush in mindless. I actually respect a well-played German leading a push properly, 95% of them never figured out how to do it so they in the back wasting what makes their ship unique.

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Even with 60% accuracy and +20% and +5% from module and gun, pre rework GK was unable to reliably to hit a broadside dd with secondaries at 12 km. It was only an occasional random hit.  And the DD was sitting almost still while my main guns were pointed elsewhere. Ohio was better at hitting but ohios secondaries have shorter range and does not pen ship hulls unless DD.  Secondaries that cannot hit DDs are of little utility because that is what they are needed for. And secondaries are easy to perma destroy, either with large caliber HE or small caliber high rate of fire AP. The big fat triple turrets of the back of Jean Bart can be destroyed by HE from a Kitakaze. If you HE-shell with a thunderer, you can get 1-2 secondaries per salvo. Small caliber AP that hits lengthwise bounces along the deck and shreds your secondaries, even the more heavily armored 150 mm GK turrets. 

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56 minutes ago, EnacheV said:

Secondaries should be nerfed even more

 

they dont involve any human skill

 

just pick a turtle citadel ship with good secondaries and press w and sometimes a-s-d

They require the following skills (not limited):

Positioning

Angling

Target selection

Damage con & repair party management

 

Don't mistake yolo with proper secondary build usage.

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1 hour ago, Redfame said:

Hi folks
Had a game to day where i could really test out my secondarys on my GKF, first of all, yea my guns where hitting left and right ofc... German guns... 10km on a montana and i got 2 overpens whii... Non the less! i could finaly do something ive wanted for a long time! Get a percentage hit rate of my full secondary build GKF and... wow... WG really doesnt like german BB's... Of 1390 shots fired 341 hit... thats a hit rate of 24.5%... come on WG... Help german mains out a bit will ya?
image.png.eaeefc47eec39b8458bb206669197cc2.png

I feel you bro! I also is trying to try Harding Secondary build on my Scharn, Mass and Georgia and soon also Pommern. In US BBs you get 25 % hits if you are lucky and those are the most accurate. My feelings is that even tho I have zero faith in WG, they just must do Secondary builds more viable in the new rework of the captain rework. Otherwise all BB builds are dead (tank, dead eye, secondary).

 

So im somewhat hopeful for the future. Lets go secondary's ! ! ! 

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They should reverse Deadeye. 

 

Give BB +10% main battery and secondary dispersion buff if inside detection range. 

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That would be a really good idea tbh! Would make ppl get in closer lot more often. 

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15 minutes ago, Redfame said:

That would be a really good idea tbh! Would make ppl get in closer lot more often. 

 

Or just not spec for concealment :cap_yes:

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45 minutes ago, Han_Sh0t_First said:

They should reverse Deadeye. 

 

Give BB +10% main battery and secondary dispersion buff if inside detection range. 

 

Kongo, Fuso and all other Japanese skyscrapers would love it +1

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16 hours ago, EnacheV said:

 

Kongo, Fuso and all other Japanese skyscrapers would love it +1

Well the way I see it, it is an easy way to fix it. 

 

Brawlers will get better secondary accuracy along with main battery. 

 

Snipers can opt. out of Concealment Expert and get another 4 points to play around with. 

 

It's a win / win in my book. 

 

Plus if they did that you could, as a brawler, choose between accuracy (Dead Eye) or reload speed (Close Quarters Combat) as most builds, brawler wise, still have to include Fire Prevention Expert and/or Concealment Expert. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

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I made a secondary build Bayern and it worked ..sometimes.

 it’s fun to see the guns blazing.

But I agree it might need a tiny buff to maybe 45% ish 

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On 3/24/2021 at 7:21 PM, EnacheV said:

Secondaries should be nerfed even more

 

they dont involve any human skill

 

just pick a turtle citadel ship with good secondaries and press w and sometimes a-s-d

And then you get tirpitzes with 20k average dmg and 10% survival rate

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On 3/24/2021 at 10:15 PM, Han_Sh0t_First said:

They should reverse Deadeye. 

 

Give BB +10% main battery and secondary dispersion buff if inside detection range. 

Current deadeye proved 10% is gamebreaking, maybe change it to 3-5% for MB and 20% SB? I like the reversal idea though.

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On 3/24/2021 at 7:21 PM, EnacheV said:

Secondaries should be nerfed even more

 

they dont involve any human skill

 

just pick a turtle citadel ship with good secondaries and press w and sometimes a-s-d

If you think that utilizing secondaries requires no skill, you have absolutely no clue about that aspect of the game. You havent even reached a tier yet where any ship has meaningful secondaries, how can you mkae such statement

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50 minutes ago, geschlittert said:

If you think that utilizing secondaries requires no skill, you have absolutely no clue about that aspect of the game. You havent even reached a tier yet where any ship has meaningful secondaries, how can you mkae such statement

 

Because he played WoT for a decade - makes him an expert in WG-games :fish_boom:

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