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DaBung

DD vs DD Gun Fights

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@DaBung

So much good advice here. I will add a supplement: if you get out traded by another DD (and it is not because you pick a gun fight in a Shiratsuyu vs a Kitakaze) you can watch your replays later, even in slow motion, and watch what the other DD did. Try detaching the camera from your ship to get a better overview.

When your attention is not occupied by fighting you will see many more details of what really happened. 

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9 hours ago, DaBung said:

I am wondering if it’s a bad thing to abandon flanks if there’s nothing you can do there as a DD... it’s a common issue I face: cv, other dd (probably with better stealth or skill) or radar. I know if I stay I will probably die, but I leave I massively disadvantage my team there. Basically I am wondering if it’s better to stay alive or support the team in these cases? 

 

I rarely ever abandon a flank, for the simple reason that this flank will then run a big risk of total collapse. And a collapsed flank puts the entire battle in a very difficult situation. Even when you probably cannot win anymore, a collapsed flank reduces your opportunity to earn XP and silver.

So when a flank performs badly, I consciously switch to defence. I try to slow down the enemy as much as possible and do damage with my torps. Few players and teams are skillful enough to push hard towards a defending DD. 

Some of my most enjoyable games have been running defences against multiple enemies. Even if they do get me in the end, they have to be good to manage that and it can be fun.

OC you need a DD with decent concealment for that. But Lightning for example is very good for this with multiple smokes.

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6 hours ago, Camperdown said:

I rarely ever abandon a flank, for the simple reason that this flank will then run a big risk of total collapse. And a collapsed flank puts the entire battle in a very difficult situation. Even when you probably cannot win anymore, a collapsed flank reduces your opportunity to earn XP and silver.

So when a flank performs badly, I consciously switch to defence. I try to slow down the enemy as much as possible and do damage with my torps. Few players and teams are skillful enough to push hard towards a defending DD. 

Some of my most enjoyable games have been running defences against multiple enemies. Even if they do get me in the end, they have to be good to manage that and it can be fun.

OC you need a DD with decent concealment for that. But Lightning for example is very good for this with multiple smokes.

This. If your team on that flank is trash then feed them to the enemy while doing your darnest to inflict as much hurt as possible without risking your ship. It sucks but some dudes just can't be helped. Only very rarely do I preemptively abandon a flank. Mostly because the map just won't allow good play (cap with huge islands, little open water and heavy enemy radar setup).

 

If you do so, make sure to tell the team on the other flank to enter hurry up mode. 

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Here is some additional advice from a formerly utter DD potato, which has now become a DD sweet potato (in the last few months).

 

1. Read what @NikolayKuznetsov wrote above again. What a great post!

 

2. Play ranked! I find the 7v7 format much more manageable and I've learned quite a bit. Extra bonus: every game has radar cruisers, so you can learn how to play around them with 3-4 ships firing at you instead of 8-10.

 

3. "Stay at tier 4 and 5 for a long time and learn the game". Nope, utter BS. I mean, sure. Learn the basics, but then... it was so much easier to play tier 7 and 8 (and 9) DDs, it's not even funny. And then you get Lightning (totally OP), Akizuki, Yugumo  Fletcher (what an amazing ship), Kitakaze... all joys to play. 

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3 minutes ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

Here is some additional advice from a formerly utter DD potato, which has now become a DD sweet potato (in the last few months).

 

1. Read what @NikolayKuznetsov wrote above again. What a great post!

 

2. Play ranked! I find the 7v7 format much more manageable and I've learned quite a bit. Extra bonus: every game has radar cruisers, so you can learn how to play around them with 3-4 ships firing at you instead of 8-10.

 

3. "Stay at tier 4 and 5 for a long time and learn the game". Nope, utter BS. I mean, sure. Learn the basics, but then... it was so much easier to play tier 7 and 8 (and 9) DDs, it's not even funny. And then you get Lightning (totally OP), Akizuki, Yugumo  Fletcher (what an amazing ship), Kitakaze... all joys to play. 

Agree with everything except t7 dds. With a few exceptions those are the weak links in the tech trees since t8 dds can out spot them (concealment module).

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2 hours ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Agree with everything except t7 dds. With a few exceptions those are the weak links in the tech trees since t8 dds can out spot them (concealment module).

Jervis was ok and kind to me. Yea, that's it, pretty much. But you are absolutely right. 

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3 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

Here is some additional advice from a formerly utter DD potato, which has now become a DD sweet potato (in the last few months).

 

1. Read what @NikolayKuznetsov wrote above again. What a great post!

 

2. Play ranked! I find the 7v7 format much more manageable and I've learned quite a bit. Extra bonus: every game has radar cruisers, so you can learn how to play around them with 3-4 ships firing at you instead of 8-10.

 

3. "Stay at tier 4 and 5 for a long time and learn the game". Nope, utter BS. I mean, sure. Learn the basics, but then... it was so much easier to play tier 7 and 8 (and 9) DDs, it's not even funny. And then you get Lightning (totally OP), Akizuki, Yugumo  Fletcher (what an amazing ship), Kitakaze... all joys to play. 

@DaBung

Let me translate this for You:

  1. this might be worth a discussion, but I'm too lazy to start one... so just let it stand as "I see that different..."
  2. If You go to ranked without proper skill and experience, you will end up as a liability to your team, lose battles, get reported for the team losing battles because of you and and will learn exactly zilch... one the other hand, you will be in the company of lots of other players aren't skilled enough to play ranked properly... so it's up to you.
  3. yeah, sure... T8 DDs end up in T10 battles with the most poisonous meta. T7's only get uptiered to T9, but get f*cked anyway if You don't know what you'd have to do to not get f*cked...
    So, sure, it's utterly stupid stay on a tier in which one can manage the gameplay and still be able to learn stuff like at T5/6. Just storm ahead into the upper tiers and be like all the other great DD players, that survive the first 3 minutes of a battle - unless getting r*aped by some CV...

Hint: checking the stat pages of posters sometimes helps to evaluate the posted hints... even more details can be found at Wow Stats&Numbers

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15 hours ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Agree with everything except t7 dds. With a few exceptions those are the weak links in the tech trees since t8 dds can out spot them (concealment module).

The Haida, a.k.a. "the fightingest ship in the Royal Canadian Navy", respectfully requests to be counted among those few exceptions. The Gadjah Mada and the Jervis (as mentioned by Captain Bindolaf Werebande in post 56 above) would also care to join the club! :Smile_Default:

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6 hours ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Agree with everything except t7 dds. With a few exceptions those are the weak links in the tech trees since t8 dds can out spot them (concealment module).

Unless you have a Z-39 😜 which was my highest tier DD for a good while and a good part of the the reason I got into DDs in the first place.... think it still has one of my highest win rates... that’s the power of concealment module on a tier 7 😆

 

I actually started most of the DD trees in the game and got to T5-7 with many of them now (Brits, french and Germans my fav I think). I think the above is right that this is a good way of doing it as you spend more time learning at an ‘easier’ tier; unlike with the Battleships where I focused on Germans only for ages and got to T10 without being ready (particularly with GK). 

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10 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

@DaBung

Let me translate this for You:

  1. this might be worth a discussion, but I'm too lazy to start one... so just let it stand as "I see that different..."
  2. If You go to ranked without proper skill and experience, you will end up as a liability to your team, lose battles, get reported for the team losing battles because of you and and will learn exactly zilch... one the other hand, you will be in the company of lots of other players aren't skilled enough to play ranked properly... so it's up to you.
  3. yeah, sure... T8 DDs end up in T10 battles with the most poisonous meta. T7's only get uptiered to T9, but get f*cked anyway if You don't know what you'd have to do to not get f*cked...
    So, sure, it's utterly stupid stay on a tier in which one can manage the gameplay and still be able to learn stuff like at T5/6. Just storm ahead into the upper tiers and be like all the other great DD players, that survive the first 3 minutes of a battle - unless getting r*aped by some CV...

Hint: checking the stat pages of posters sometimes helps to evaluate the posted hints... even more details can be found at Wow Stats&Numbers

Counterpoints (mostly):

 

1. I'd be happy to read your takes.

 

2. All true, but still, ranked is an excellent place to learn. Now, I didn't say, "play 200 games then take your tier X DD to ranked". But I did what you posted above: Without too much experience in DDs (maybe 500 games?), I play ranked to learn. I do my best, I play for the team and that's more than most people do. My stats reflect that I am not good, but if you look at Yugumo or Fletcher, I'm ok. Also, I'm getting better, which is the point.

 

3. You are right. Tier 7 is the new tier 8 and tier 8 sees tier 10 ships. However, what do you learn at tier 5? CVs crap on you (doubly), without you being able to do much and your opponents are Kamikazes and 21-point seal clubbers who PK you and kek all the way back to port. I'll take tier 9 and 10 any day over that (and do).

 

Hint: my stats are always visible. Also, literally my first sentence was about my skill level. What some of you veterans don't consider, though, is that a lot of people asking for advice are not unicums. The viewpoint of average players who are trying to get better and hit the same snags I do, have helped me a lot in the past. I'm just doing the same for others. 

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7 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

advice are not unicums. The viewpoint of average players who are trying to get better and hit the same snags I do, have helped me a lot

Yeah unicum advice can be bad for average & below average players because it's advice they can't execute, it's too much. Probably best if average & below average players follow advice of good players and good players follow advice of unicums. I'll never forget my first T10 boat was Grozovoi and I followed an in depth guide from the N°1 Grozovoi player on NA, it was terrible, 400 games of getting my [edited]kicked. If I try to do the same thing now I can make it work, sometimes :)

 

My stats aren't great yet either, I was pepega until last summer, what I got is 9 months of great results and stats consistently going up fast, because I picked up the habit of learning :

 

> Read advice from people who know what they're talking about, to check if they know what they're talking about, check solo winrate in T6 and up (because divisions boost winrate by a lot and T1-T5 doesn't count, it's just slaughtering bots)

> Watch replays of great players and use MM Monitor to know who is the best player on your team and watch him after you die, I still do this every game. My grind is slower but I'm learning constantly.

> Actively play clan battles with guys who are overall a bit better than you, not massively better so you make the team, but still better than you so you learn. This has double function, you pick up advice from guys that are a bit better than you and you constantly fight people who are actually good at the game. I qualified for Typhoon league yesterday and didn't miss a single battle. Joining the right clan is a big deal for gitting gud, they have to be better than you so you can learn, they have to actively play CB, they have to be willing to teach you and you still have to be decent enough to make the team.

> Also I cheated and have Dfens and Forlorn on speed-dial for personal training, one of those poor souls even committed to teaching me how to play radar minotaur :fish_haloween:@DFens_666

 

Someone with 2K games and bad stats is ok because gitting gud in warships is not easy. 10K-20K games and bad stats is sad because they just kept going without learning and there's so much to learn in this game. Nothing pisses me off more than people who just gave up trying to git gud, people who go like "Ehh it doesn't matter, matchmaker decides" I was a useless/hopeless pepega last summer, now I've been 60-62% WR for 9 months, storm/typhoon league, ranked out of bronze and silver in one day with 1 loss in bronze and 2 in silver.

 

People who are here whining and complaining won't improve, people who are here to learn definitely will. I'm proof you can go from pepega to decent in a short period of time if you stop bitching and start listening.

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18 minutes ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

All good advice, but by god, sir, you are not going to take away my right to whine! :Smile_teethhappy:

I whine too, about Thunderer mostly because that ship is world of warships on easy difficulty. Just the people who do nothing but bitching about the game is 10% good players who are unhappy with the current state of the game and 90% pepegas looking for excuses. Looking for excuses is bad, stops you learning/improving.

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I wish I were younger. Nowadays I don't have time for hours of mmorpgs (or CBs) with voice and strategy and all that, though sometimes I'd like to. I am able to learn, but the time investment is shorter, for sure. I am known to just play for yolos (though not in ranked).

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17 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

All good advice, but by god, sir, you are not going to take away my right to whine! :Smile_teethhappy:

By God, Sir, I would not dream of it. The right to whine is an unalienable right of man.

 

About one minute into this clip...

 

 

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On 3/25/2021 at 8:17 AM, Camperdown said:

I rarely ever abandon a flank, for the simple reason that this flank will then run a big risk of total collapse. And a collapsed flank puts the entire battle in a very difficult situation. Even when you probably cannot win anymore, a collapsed flank reduces your opportunity to earn XP and silver.

So when a flank performs badly, I consciously switch to defence. I try to slow down the enemy as much as possible and do damage with my torps. Few players and teams are skillful enough to push hard towards a defending DD. 

Some of my most enjoyable games have been running defences against multiple enemies. Even if they do get me in the end, they have to be good to manage that and it can be fun.

OC you need a DD with decent concealment for that. But Lightning for example is very good for this with multiple smokes.

Z-52 is amazing for this. Just keep the torps coming every minute.

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