Nagato, what is this crap?

[Kr1gsG4ldr]

I'm not a bb main and i know i have so many things to learn on this class, so aside any pr or wr shaming just delete game and other things, can someone let me know if i'm doing something wrong with this ship, wows fitting tool says that she has a 2.0 sigma value, is real or is joke? 

Because every time i shoot is all but not 2.0 sigma, her dispersion is frustrating me even more than KM bbs.

For not saying her dmg output those times she does the miracle of hit the target...... just ridicolous, even vs t6/5, a full broadside ship does nothing with all of ricochets, overpens eccetera.......

Have you some advices or there is nothing to do? 

Also the Amagi is the same thing or is much better?

Thank you.

[DFens_666]

Nagato is rather accurate. Amagi is worse, i liked Nagato, but i hated Amagi. But thats personal preference, i know others who love Amagi.

If you want more help how to play it, upload a couple of replays so we can give pointers on what to do differently. Incidently, the large caliber guns tend to get more overpens when shooting at squishy targets (so T5-6 ships) and you can get more value out of them by also taking shots at angled target, because they can overmatch a lot of ships. If you, however, get only overpens on broadside ships, then you often aimed too high, or the shells didnt land on the citadel (or a very squishy Cruiser is very close to you).

[ColonelPete]

Nagatos guns are extremly strong for her Tier. That is definitely not her problem.

 

• her guns are very accurate for a BB, which means wrong aiming is not often "rescued" by the dispersion
• her guns are very powerful for her Tier, that target selection is very important, your shells tend to overpen lightly armored, broadside ships at close range (less than 10km)
• go for angled targets you can overmatch or broadside heavy cruisers, the guns work also great vs BB

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

Nagato is a lovely ship, my only problems are that they apparently used some extra super flammable coating on the tinder deck of hers...

[Kr1gsG4ldr]

 

1 ora fa, DFens_666 ha scritto:

Nagato is rather accurate. Amagi is worse, i liked Nagato, but i hated Amagi. But thats personal preference, i know others who love Amagi.

If you want more help how to play it, upload a couple of replays so we can give pointers on what to do differently. Incidently, the large caliber guns tend to get more overpens when shooting at squishy targets (so T5-6 ships) and you can get more value out of them by also taking shots at angled target, because they can overmatch a lot of ships. If you, however, get only overpens on broadside ships, then you often aimed too high, or the shells didnt land on the citadel (or a very squishy Cruiser is very close to you).

First, ty for the reply.

Honestly, i decided to grind the line because 4 years ago before stopping playing for some time i reached the Fuso, so for not leave the line unfinished i farmed Nagato in operation mode.

So in the end the problem are the 410 mms?

Just some hour ago i used her vs a broadside Bayern,12 kms, 8 shells fired 5 miss 2 ricochets and 1 overpen.

Same game, Myoko 14 kms, 8 shells fired 4 miss 4 overpens.

These are just some examples.

I'm almost there to sold her and giving up the line, your words about Amagi make me scary.

Anyway yes i want to send a replay, so you can see and maybe help me, tomorrow if i have some time i rec something with dixtory and post it.

56 minuti fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

Nagatos guns are extremly strong for her Tier. That is definitely not her problem.

 

• her guns are very accurate for a BB, which means wrong aiming is not often "rescued" by the dispersion
• her guns are very powerful for her Tier, that target selection is very important, your shells tend to overpen lightly armored, broadside ships at close range (less than 10km)
• go for angled targets you can overmatch or broadside heavy cruisers, the guns work also great vs BB

Ty for your reply too.

Yeah It is possible for all to wrong a salvo or two, even the most skilled of us, we are humans after all.

But i doubt that every single salvo is wrong, this is just ridicolous, like i said on the reply of Dfens, before to me have happened hilarious episodes beyond the reality.

Anyway ty for the hint of shoot to angled targets in the hope of some overmatch.

49 minuti fa, Karasu_Hidesuke ha scritto:

Nagato is a lovely ship, my only problems are that they apparently used some extra super flammable coating on the tinder deck of hers...

True, aside other things, has even problems with a gasoline made deck.

[Hirohito]

I had the same problem with Nagato.
People were saying she was very accurate compared to Fuso, yet I still failed to connect a lot of shots.

The problem with Nagato is that she has absolutely terrible vertical dispersion, meaning that a lot of shots will fall short or far of the enemy ship, even if your aim is on point and the shells (seem) tight.
It's a bit of the same problem that (supposedly) accurate Yamato faces.
While her dispersion is advertised as good, charts that map the ellipse (including both horizontal and vertical dispersion) show that she has more of a square area of shell groupings (=worse dispersion) even than supposedly more inaccurate BBs.
Great horizontal dispersion only gets you so far when the vertical spread is that large.

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, LordInvader98k said:

Anyway yes i want to send a replay, so you can see and maybe help me, tomorrow if i have some time i rec something with dixtory and post it.

 

https://replayswows.com/

You can also just upload the replayfile on that page and give us the link. We can download the file and watch it ourselves. Ofc its easier for us if you record it yourself, but either way works.

 

4 minutes ago, LordInvader98k said:

Just some hour ago i used her vs a broadside Bayern,12 kms, 8 shells fired 5 miss 2 ricochets and 1 overpen. 

Same game, Myoko 14 kms, 8 shells fired 4 miss 4 overpens.

 

F.e. you can share the replay from that game (the last 20 replays should be stored by default in your wows folder).

[Hirohito]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

her guns are very accurate for a BB, which means wrong aiming is not often "rescued" by the dispersion

That's only half of the problem though.
Even if you can aim, her god awful vertical dispersion can still rob you of several connecting hits, especially at range where she supposedly excels.

[lafeel]

I really wanted to like Nagato myself, but simply could not.

 

Mercifully Amagi solved most of the issues I have with Nagato or I'd have given up.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Hirohito said:

That's only half of the problem though.
Even if you can aim, her god awful vertical dispersion can still rob you of several connecting hits, especially at range where she supposedly excels.

 

Well, but thats true for all IJN BBs. And Nagato has the 2nd best Sigma, same as Izumo these days, only surpassed by Yamato.

[Hirohito]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, but thats true for all IJN BBs. And Nagato has the 2nd best Sigma, same as Izumo these days, only surpassed by Yamato.

Not arguing against that, but it might be the problem he faces when he struggles to connect at range, even if he seems to aim well.
I sure found her a pain to play, so much that I figured I'd just drop the IJN BB line.
There's something really infuriating about leading correctly, seeing a tight shell grouping fly, and just create a massive splash party around the enemy ship.

[tocqueville8]

10 hours ago, LordInvader98k said:

Have you some advices or there is nothing to do? 

Imho there's nothing to do.

You can take CE + Dead Eye to make the guns somewhat accurate at medium-long range, but the vertical dispersion is what it is, and you're right she overpens a lot. The damage per shell is higher than on the Fuso's 356s, but the rate of fire and barrel count are lower. Also, crap armor.

 

10 hours ago, LordInvader98k said:

 Also the Amagi is the same thing or is much better?

The Amagi at least is fast and has a 32 mm plating, which will bounce most AP thrown at you (if you're angled). The Izumo gets even better in terms of deck plating, and she'll shatter a lot of HE as well.

In my experience, the Amagi is also harder to citadel.

[lafeel]

3 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

The Amagi at least is fast and has a 32 mm plating, which will bounce most AP thrown at you (if you're angled). The Izumo gets even better in terms of deck plating, and she'll shatter a lot of HE as well.

In my experience, she's also harder to citadel.

That fifth turret also helps her throw weight considerably.

[BoomerSmasher]

The frustrating thing about Nagato is not the guns but the lack of armour. It's even squisher than the Hood. Feels like playing a slow Azuma with super bad concealment. 

[Trench4nt]

Vor 3 Stunden, Hirohito sagte:

I had the same problem with Nagato.
People were saying she was very accurate compared to Fuso, yet I still failed to connect a lot of shots.

The problem with Nagato is that she has absolutely terrible vertical dispersion, meaning that a lot of shots will fall short or far of the enemy ship, even if your aim is on point and the shells (seem) tight.

 

Actually, this is not true. When we take a look at the wiki, we can see that horizontal and vertical dispersion increase linearly with distance but remain the same within classes (There are exceptions such as Slava). You can also compare the max values using the fitting tool. The rate is always ~1:25 for all IGN BBs. Thus, Fuso's, Nagato's and Amagi's dispersion values are all the same for a specific distance. The difference is the sigma value and - more important - the number of shells that fly into the ellipse. Nagato only has eight guns and it might be a trade-off between hitting shells and sigma.

 

 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 5 Stunden, LordInvader98k sagte:

 

Have you some advices or there is nothing to do? 

The vertical dispersion can temporarily be improved by launching the spotter plane. Don't know if you followed that thread some weeks ago.

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, Hirohito said:

That's only half of the problem though.
Even if you can aim, her god awful vertical dispersion can still rob you of several connecting hits, especially at range where she supposedly excels.

Her dispersion pattern is not really different compared to other BB. Only the RU BB are different and that is not good either.

[Fatal_Ramses]

Nagato is pretty much the only reason why I will never reset the IJN BB-line. Wanted to like her, but it was a horrible experience even if it was 2 years ago.

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

I freexp'd part of Nagato and all of Amagi. The guns were not my problem. I can't deal with battleships that have no armor at all. I'd rather play cruisers. Fuso was great and (post buff) Izumo was fun, even though I lost more than I won.

[cherry2blost]

Nagato is a fine ship, maybe affected a little for the worse in the deadeye meta due to her concealment, here's a replay from this time last year just to prove there is no particular issue with the 'Fat Lady'. Her guns are accurate as can be seen here....

 

26.4% accuracy for a Tier 7 BB isn't terrible this after 524 games in her so figures have had time to balance out.

 

What you get is either overpens or massive hits due to the size of her guns and armour of targets she will see unless uptiered.

 

Here is the last Nagato game I uploaded there are many more but mainly from a much earlier time.

 

 

 

[MementoMori_6030]

Her mostly forward facing 2ndaries were really enjoyable until the reskill nonsense.

[BoomerSmasher]

2 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

I freexp'd part of Nagato and all of Amagi. The guns were not my problem. I can't deal with battleships that have no armor at all. I'd rather play cruisers. Fuso was great and (post buff) Izumo was fun, even though I lost more than I won.

Don't even touch the Florida and the upcoming Constellation. Those are having battlecruiser sort of armour that reverb Amagi is much more tanky. Same goes to słabe Slava which takes nose in pens (25mm) although still can't be citadeled from that nose (lol)

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

That is funny, I'm in love with her guns. Doing 70-100k has never been so easy for me 

But as someone said, she is so squishy. 

[Fat_Maniac]

11 hours ago, LordInvader98k said:

I'm not a bb main and i know i have so many things to learn on this class, so aside any pr or wr shaming just delete game and other things, can someone let me know if i'm doing something wrong with this ship, wows fitting tool says that she has a 2.0 sigma value, is real or is joke? 

Because every time i shoot is all but not 2.0 sigma, her dispersion is frustrating me even more than KM bbs.

For not saying her dmg output those times she does the miracle of hit the target...... just ridicolous, even vs t6/5, a full broadside ship does nothing with all of ricochets, overpens eccetera.......

Have you some advices or there is nothing to do? 

Also the Amagi is the same thing or is much better?

Thank you.

Loved Nagato. As others have said, use your guns on targets you can overmatch, before engaging better armed targets if you can, and you will see her benefits. On lightly armoured targets you can get alot of overpens  The real downside in Nagato for me was her slow speed,

I enjoyed Amagi too, for me she suffered a bit when in a T10 and the MM threw a heavy lolpen and daka daka HE spam enemy team. Nothing really new in that for a T8.

[Yedwy]

I reground the IJN line at least 3 times, only at the last one I actually got the hang of Nagato, she has a sweetspot on the range of about 15-17km where she is absolutely devastating when she hits, more then that and dispersion starzs robbing you of hita, less then that and weird stuff happens with the shells for some reason...