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ThePurpleSmurf

Ranked and CVs

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So i ranked out in Silver, with a horrible WR because i don't really care that much about ranked anymore and i'm only interested in the Steel and Doubloons. Maybe it was because i played Ranked kinda late in the Sprint or maybe it's a general thing, but i was genuinely surprised about how few CV games i had. I would estimate that i had maybe 1 out of 15 games with CV. As a DD main this is a nice thing. Let's hope that next Sprint all CV players are in Gold and i can farm my stuff in Silver without being harassed by edited.

 

Edit: language please

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Actually, sometimes I leave the queue when I see that two carriers are waiting...

The reason for that is not that I do not like them. But I really hates it when CV players plays on their own and do not support the team.

Had this a couple of times and the game was already lost in the first two minutes.

 

I do not understand how players even at T10 and even in silver are incapable in managing to use fighters to protect their DDs or stubbornly attack BBs with torpedos straight from the beginning. 

 

You can compensate a bad BB, Cruiser or even DD player, but not a bad CV.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

Actually, sometimes I leave the queue when I see that two carriers are waiting...

The reason for that is not that I do not like them. But I really hates it when CV players plays on their own and do not support the team.

Had this a couple of times and the game was already lost in the first two minutes.

 

I do not understand how players even at T10 and even in silver are incapable in managing to use fighters to protect their DDs or stubbornly attack BBs with torpedos straight from the beginning. 

 

You can compensate a bad BB, Cruiser or even DD player, but not a bad CV.

 

 

 

lol, you're probably one of the people that would complain about having me on your team in ranked. Supporting fighters with DDs is practically nonexistent gameplay wise, it's a waste of time and simply isn't the most efficient thing to do in CV. To think that it's the CVs job to support one player is also stupid, spotting provides a better benefit 90% of the time anyway.

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19 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

So i ranked out in Silver, with a horrible WR because i don't really care that much about ranked anymore and i'm only interested in the Steel and Doubloons. Maybe it was because i played Ranked kinda late in the Sprint or maybe it's a general thing, but i was genuinely surprised about how few CV games i had. I would estimate that i had maybe 1 out of 15 games with CV. As a DD main this is a nice thing. Let's hope that next Sprint all CV players are in Gold and i can farm my stuff in Silver without being harassed by Sky Rats.

I finished promotions yesterday using the midway but before then I was playing a bit of smaland and mino to very mediocre success, I didn't see too many CVs. I'm in gold now so at least you don't need to worry about one CV player.

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44 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

I do not understand how players even at T10 and even in silver are incapable in managing to use fighters to protect their DDs or stubbornly attack BBs with torpedos straight from the beginning. 

 

You can compensate a bad BB, Cruiser or even DD player, but not a bad CV.

Probably because new'ish players don't get any help from WG by telling them what good play actually is.

I started out as a CV main, and while a lot of the game confused me, I thought I knew one thing for certain - scoring lots of damage is good, and the more the better.
The youtube videos all bragged (and still do) of their 200k+ damage scores, and the game itself rewards you with more rewards the more damage you score, so that was my default plan back then.
And since the most damage came from torping BBs, thats what I did for the most part.

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33 minutes ago, Lordcrafty said:

Supporting fighters with DDs is practically nonexistent gameplay wise, it's a waste of time and simply isn't the most efficient thing to do in CV.

It's often a psychological thing. If you support the DD, even fighters are crap, the DD player doesn't feel left alone and that he doesn't play 1 vs 13 (for ranked or 1 vs 23 in randoms) but actually has a teammate. This potentially result in the DD player trying a bit harder rather than to think "yeah screw this team, they do not play for me, why should i play for them". This is my opinion as a DD main. If i see that someone supports me, then i try my best to support them. If people don't care (radar cruisers not supporting caps, BBs hiding behind islands, CVs no spotting a enemy DD so i can kill him, and so on) then i don't care about them and start to farm damage just for me, don't care about objectives until i can be 100% sure that a cap is free rather than to fight enemy ships over it. Long story short, it's a team game. It works best if people help each other, or at least try to do so.

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2 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

It's often a psychological thing. If you support the DD, even fighters are crap, the DD player doesn't feel left alone and that he doesn't play 1 vs 13 (for ranked or 1 vs 23 in randoms) but actually has a teammate. This potentially result in the DD player trying a bit harder rather than to think "yeah screw this team, they do not play for me, why should i play for them". This is my opinion as a DD main. If i see that someone supports me, then i try my best to support them. If people don't care (radar cruisers not supporting caps, BBs hiding behind islands, CVs no spotting a enemy DD so i can kill him, and so on) then i don't care about them and start to farm damage just for me, don't care about objectives until i can be 100% sure that a cap is free rather than to fight enemy ships over it. Long story short, it's a team game. It works best if people help each other, or at least try to do so.

The guy above is right though, using fighters that way is a bad move, even if you consider "psychological support" as a fact.
When I play a DD, the last thing I worry about is whether or not my CV supports me with fighters.
The support I worry about is support from surface ships, as those are the guys that will actually put out the real pressure on the enemy flank, and the guys I ideally want closer than the enemy DDs support, and preferably in bigger numbers than the enemy.

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56 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

 

The reason for that is not that I do not like them. But I really hates it when CV players plays on their own and do not support the team.

To be fair though, when your CV is caught and being attacked by a DD or whatever, do you

a) rush back to help defend him

b) shrug and mutter something about karma being a female dog

 

 

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1 ora fa, ThePurpleSmurf ha scritto:

next Sprint all CV players are in Gold and i can farm my stuff in Silver

i cant bomb you anymore :((

why not rank out to gold so i have a +1 target to kill? you know, midway training

edit: (cant quote rip) fighters can be useless sometimes, because if you defend a teammate with them, i can assure you that if you saved him once, he will find die anyway, so...

they can be useful, for sure

@Trench4nt

Edited by arquata2019
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31 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

The guy above is right though, using fighters that way is a bad move, even if you consider "psychological support" as a fact.

I'd suggest it's a bit more nuanced than a flat-out good/bad thing, and I imagine the better CV players know this. My (DD main) view is along the following lines:

  • A CV's most powerful impact is through spotting and denying the opposition spotting (i.e. neutralising DDs); I rejoice when the opposing CV goes into damage farming mode (usually against BBs) from the off, as it means I have a much freer hand.
  • How much use fighters are to friendly DDs is very situational; for instance, early game, plonking a fighter over a friendly DD is often a big flashing 'here he is!' sign, whereas later on it can be invaluable - I've been playing several DDs with heals recently, and fighter cover can be very helpful after you've been shot up a bit; you can heal a lot of damage, but AA defences don't grow back.
  • So, early fighter use should probably be mostly about spotting, with potential defensive use becoming more useful later in the game.
48 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

I thought I knew one thing for certain - scoring lots of damage is good, and the more the better.

This illustrates nicely what many have been saying for ages: the game needs better (any?) tutorials. The key message that newer players get is to blow stuff up; the whole thing about percentage damage gets lost. When you realise that it's percentage damage that generates the rewards, rather than absolute damage, blowing up opposing DDs suddenly makes infinitely more sense; possibly fortunately for me, most CV drivers never seem to take this on board.

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42 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

why not rank out to gold so i have a +1 target to kill?

There is no incentive. It just takes double as long to rank out for minimal more reward. Reaching Rank 1 became meaningless with the new system. No more bragging rights, nothing to show off like a Jolly Roger Flag and so on. The Ranked Tokens are pretty useless too as the additional camos you can get have the same stats and provide no advantage, with the exception of the USS Black camo where the original camo has +100% while the Ranked camo has +150% to XP, FXP and Commander XP. So there is no reason to play Ranked unless you really enjoy this game mode, which i don't.

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57 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

The guy above is right though, using fighters that way is a bad move, even if you consider "psychological support" as a fact.
When I play a DD, the last thing I worry about is whether or not my CV supports me with fighters.
The support I worry about is support from surface ships, as those are the guys that will actually put out the real pressure on the enemy flank, and the guys I ideally want closer than the enemy DDs support, and preferably in bigger numbers than the enemy.

There are multiple ways fighters can be helpful to a DD other than air cover. Deny approach to cap to enemy DD by placing fighters at his end of the cap or limit his ability to approach via a route that offers no cover or ways to disengage is one of them. When I see a CV doing THAT I know he is not stupid.

 

OTOH when I see a CV trying to cover ME with fighters early game, I know he'll be useless. Late game, yes please, I like the fighter cover because I cannot afford to lose HP anymore.

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Just now, Hugh_Ruka said:

There are multiple ways fighters can be helpful to a DD other than air cover. Deny approach to cap to enemy DD by placing fighters at his end of the cap or limit his ability to approach via a route that offers no cover or ways to disengage is one of them. When I see a CV doing THAT I know he is not stupid.

 

OTOH when I see a CV trying to cover ME with fighters early game, I know he'll be useless. Late game, yes please, I like the fighter cover because I cannot afford to lose HP anymore.

Yeah I'm fully aware that this is usually one of the factors that sets apart a good from a bad CV.
However, whether or not I choose to be aggressive on that flank is mostly due to whether or not I have more surface ship support, and whether or not the enemy CV seems to be looking for me.
A friendly fighter on top of my head does not change my equation whatsoever (and its usually a bad move from the CV anyway).

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1 hour ago, bobtherterrible said:

To be fair though, when your CV is caught and being attacked by a DD or whatever, do you

a) rush back to help defend him

b) shrug and mutter something about karma being a female dog

 

 

Well if I know a DD has slipped by and might attack the CV I try to ping him to move ... a DD has the least gun range and is usually closest to the enemy so direct support is usually not possible.

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Vor 1 Stunde, bobtherterrible sagte:

To be fair though, when your CV is caught and being attacked by a DD or whatever, do you

a) rush back to help defend him

b) shrug and mutter something about karma being a female dog

 

I refer to ranked only. It is very unlikely that a CV is directly attacked by a DD without being spotted trying this. 

 

Fighters are very useful because typically the enemy CV do not fly into a fighter cloud. I have never seen this in silver so far and most likely this results from a psychological effect, as mentioned above. Thus, the DD is save when trying to enter the cap. This is particularily useful when fighters are positioned before the competitive off-cap. Using fighters for spotting behind the cap might also be a reasonable choice. But from a DDs perspective, the spotting advantage is inferior to survivability.

 

DDs have a big disadvantage when they have to fight against other DDs and continuously being spotted/attacked by the enemy CV while their own CV does not help them. As we all should know, the fist minutes in ranked are the most important ones and the CV should give a maximum of team support. 

 

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3 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

It's often a psychological thing. If you support the DD, even fighters are crap, the DD player doesn't feel left alone and that he doesn't play 1 vs 13 (for ranked or 1 vs 23 in randoms) but actually has a teammate. This potentially result in the DD player trying a bit harder rather than to think "yeah screw this team, they do not play for me, why should i play for them". This is my opinion as a DD main. If i see that someone supports me, then i try my best to support them. If people don't care (radar cruisers not supporting caps, BBs hiding behind islands, CVs no spotting a enemy DD so i can kill him, and so on) then i don't care about them and start to farm damage just for me, don't care about objectives until i can be 100% sure that a cap is free rather than to fight enemy ships over it. Long story short, it's a team game. It works best if people help each other, or at least try to do so.

finding and combating surface threats to your DDs is far more influential than providing a fighter though.

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3 hours ago, bobtherterrible said:

To be fair though, when your CV is caught and being attacked by a DD or whatever, do you

a) rush back to help defend him

b) shrug and mutter something about karma being a female dog

 

 

maybe even b since it'll be better to keep playing your game and not give the enemy team ground, if the DD is a serious threat to the CV then the CV player's skill is at question.

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cv main here, hi.  so i tried to play in 2 different ways in 2 different matches.

1) with kaga, abused all battleships i could, and all campers (behind islands and sitting smoke cruisers). farmed damage. lost

 

2) suppored DDs, wasted so many planes on dd that i could use only torpedo bombers at the end of the match.  mega lost, no fun, no thx , no satisfaction.

 

"support dd". clearly that would be great. but not all carriers are the same, especially after the reticle rework . to support dds, english and american carriers with their bombs may be effective, but they lack of regen speed, and planes speed. so they can do it once or twice. IJN carriers, with their AP bombs and their torpedoes surely can cause heavy damage among cruisers and battleships.  kaga for example can hunt dds, but rely too much on RNG to do that. i am not considering german cvs, because the AP they have, is for cruisres and battleships only so.....uh.....not dds..

 

also there is this annoying thing about carriers, having the role to baby sit a whole team. there is 1 carrier, and a fkn ton of other vessels. also, WHY NO ONE EVER USES THE GOD DAM RADAR WHEN PLANES ARE NEAR A SMOKED DD?????? that is what annoys me the most. people wants the cv to help them, but wont do ANYTHING in return

 

in a potato MM, i was trying to carry as a tier 8 cv, in a tier 10 MM, hunted a dd, killed a bunch of cruisers (thx RNG). and spent the last 10 minutes getting insults because i didnt kill the dd (spoiler : i did). so tell me, why should i ever play again to support someone? most the players i met so far, were living disappointements. immediately ready to throw crap at the cv as soon as a mistake occurs.  

 

i dont play to support people anymore, playing for damage = real fun.   wasting time on fkn invisible destroyers is not worth my time

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6 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

i was genuinely surprised about how few CV games i had

Doesn't this mean to weegee's perverted spreadshit logic, that cvs will need buffs now? :Smile_trollface:

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Just now, Saiyko said:

Doesn't this mean to weegee's perverted spreadshit logic, that cvs will need buffs now? :Smile_trollface:

they should give me an enty then buff enty.

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3 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Doesn't this mean to weegee's perverted spreadshit logic, that cvs will need buffs now? :Smile_trollface:

Oh don't worry, they will come with something to ruin this for us too.

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13 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Doesn't this mean to weegee's perverted spreadshit logic, that cvs will need buffs now? :Smile_trollface:

Means they can allow them in KOTS after all, cause you know: in the competitive mode called ranked hardly anyone plays them...

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9 hours ago, Lordcrafty said:

lol, you're probably one of the people that would complain about having me on your team in ranked. Supporting fighters with DDs is practically nonexistent gameplay wise, it's a waste of time and simply isn't the most efficient thing to do in CV. To think that it's the CVs job to support one player is also stupid, spotting provides a better benefit 90% of the time anyway.

It's true. As a fairly new CV player i tried this, I even went full fighter build with Enterprise and it was hardly helpful.

 

I use fighters for spotting and dealing with FDR.

If I have a smoked up DD in cap I will drop fighter between him and the enemy to give spotting.

Fighters only prevent a second attack in most cases so it's often a waste to try to give AA with them

 

I found it very annoying, I wanted to support the team by providing AA but it's clearly not the way the class is intended. 

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By playing ranked you diminish the primary thing that makes CVs fun, namely ruining the fun of others. Why ruin the fun of only 12 players when you can do it to 22?

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