Why so many trash skills for DDs

[NikolayKuznetsov]

For 1 point preventive maintenance is good, everything else is trash.
For 2 points last stand is good, everything else is trash.

For 3 points survivability expert and AR is good - SI/FTT/MBAAS are okay I guess on some boats.
For 4 points concealment expert is good, radio location can be good, everything else is trash (except for MBAAE and Fearless on Russians/French)

I'm a big fan of RPF so I end up with this 17 point build on all my destroyers. I could grab another "meh" 3pt skill and take another 1pt skill that does literally nothing.

Why are 10 out of 12 one and two point skills completely useless? This just makes the effective cost of RPF 6 points instead of 4, because taking RPF means you waste 2 skillpoints on junk.
Any chance this gets looked into when you're looking into deadeye or is deadeye the only thing that's under review?

 

The skilltree is OK for french and russian because you can make use of MBAAE and/or fearless. I guess it's OK for Halland because you grab fill the tubes and liquidator.
But every other destroyer is wasting 4 skillpoints on junk after they spent 17 points on this build

[BielayaSmert]

I do not agree… I would like to have 31 pointers for my DDs

 

Why so many trash skills for CAs? This is the question

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, BielayaSmert said:

Why so many trash skills for CAs? This is the question

 

Yeah i agree... i have a hard time skilling my Cruisers, because i cant decide which of the skills is LESS USELESS I mean sure, give me 30 pts for Cruisers too so i can just skill everything, and it wouldnt matter 95% of the time anyway

 

Atleast with DDs there are potential skills to take. Torp reload and torpspeed are not that bad, atleast they do something.

[Ronchabale]

3 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

For 1 point preventive maintenance is good, everything else is trash.
For 2 points last stand is good, everything else is trash.

For 3 points survivability expert and AR is good - SI/FTT/MBAAS are okay I guess on some boats.
For 4 points concealment expert is good, radio location can be good, everything else is trash (except for MBAAE and Fearless on Russians/French)

I'm a big fan of RPF so I end up with this 17 point build on all my destroyers. I could grab another "meh" 3pt skill and take another 1pt skill that does literally nothing.

Why are 10 out of 12 one and two point skills completely useless? This just makes the effective cost of RPF 6 points instead of 4, because taking RPF means you waste 2 skillpoints on junk.
Any chance this gets looked into when you're looking into deadeye or is deadeye the only thing that's under review?

 

The skilltree is OK for french and russian because you can make use of MBAAE and/or fearless. I guess it's OK for Halland because you grab fill the tubes and liquidator.
But every other destroyer is wasting skillpoints on junk after they spent 17 points on this build

Yes, useless skills

Some skill that improved concealment vs aircraft would be nice 

A rudder shift improvement "skill" would also be useful

Instead they dream up these  skills for 4 p

Dazzle.. ?  Is it worth 2p ? I´d say yes, 3p ? dunno bout that, 4p ? Nooo

Swift in silence ? How is +8% speed (as long as you are undetected) worth 5% slower reload ?  for 4p ? (maybe for 2p)

 

The skills for cruisers are just as bad

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Maybe it should read "Why so many trash skills for all classes?" As for me each class has it's share of useless or (even worse) noob-trap skills, which might look great for the uninformed but in the end don't deliver or outright give a blatant disadvantage.

 

Skill rework was supposed to help get away from the cookie-cutter builds? Yeah, sure... target missed by a mile imho... for DDs I've got exactly two different skillsets: one for DD hunter DDs and one for all the others... and for the other classes it isn't that much different...

 

[NikolayKuznetsov]

They're different, both don't feel good in their own way

Cruisers : You need 13 points for grease + priority target + ar + si + ce and spend the remaining 8 points on stuff that does very little, you can waste 6 on AA skills I guess for a "plane tax"
Destroyers : You need 17 points for pm + ls + se + ar + ce + rpf and keep your last 4 points because nothing else is even worth clicking on.

 

 

[MementoMori_6030]

Podvoisky with SWIFT IN SILENCE, active engine boost and speed signal for the meme.

[NikolayKuznetsov]

I just don't understand why cruisers and destroyers get so many junk skills and battleships get two perfect builds with 0 wasted skillspoints.

Russian :

 

Not Russian :

 

Every single skillpoint spent brings real value to the build, cruisers have to waste 8 skillpoints on trash, destroyers have to waste 4 skillpoints on trash.
Why?

[Ronchabale]

Hopefully they do something about cruiser and destroyer skills in the next update (and also adress the deadeye issue)

 

 

 

 

 

[NikolayKuznetsov]

It doesn't even need drastic changes, just make the 1 and 2 point skills do something
"+10% action time on smoke consumable" Hurrrr durrr
-1 second turret traverse durrrrrr ok thanks hurrrrr I'm totally going to notice this

+30% flooding chance, it's now 430% instead of 400% hurrrr durrrr yes this will be very impactful
50% fast shell switching on a DD ok Durrrr dhurrrr hurrrrr yes because we use this all the time

Nobody cares about any of these so why have them in the skill tree at all

Everyone is going to get PM + LS and begrudgingly pick some other 1 or 2 point skills because they have to, knowing full well none of them do anything

Even priority target on a DD, who cares, I can put a sticker on my monitor that says "everyone within a 27km radius of you is aiming at you" - Same thing.

[Ubertron_X]

I think you might be dismissing the damage boosting skills far too easily. For example in order to surpass FTT with AR you need to have lost 50% HP. And they stack.

[cracktrackflak]

10 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Hopefully they do something about cruiser and destroyer skills in the next update (and also adress the deadeye issue)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Changes to skills = $$$  for WG.

 

I expect thats exactly why they've started out with a set of mediocre and mundane skills. When they've finished milking player cash from redundant Captains, they'll probably move onto changing skills.

[Maris_Piper]

I think WG have been quite fair with the new skills, they are just mostly trash for everyone except WG's accountant. Working as Intended 

[NikolayKuznetsov]

10 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

I think you might be dismissing the damage boosting skills far too easily. For example in order to surpass FTT with AR you need to have lost 50% HP. And they stack.

I agree, I don't like torpedo boats, people who do can add FTT for 20 points and a completely useless 1 point skill for 21 points, I said that in my opening post. My issue is with destroyers that are not : French, Russian or Halland, after spending 17 mandatory skills they have a selection of completely useless 1 and 2 point skills or 5% DPS and 7 dps on their AA for 3 points plus a completely useless 1 point skill.

 

21pt captains don't feel like a goal worth pursuing on a DD, when your captain is LV17 you're done.

21pt captains don't feel like a goal worth pursuing on a CA, when your captain is LV13 you're done.

Meanwhile on battleships 21pt captains are 100% worth it

[Trench4nt]

Not sure what is topic is all about. Yes, there always exists the "best" build for gun DDs or torpedo DDs so you take it. 

I use the flooding one pointer on my Halland and the Incoming Fire Alert on French DDs. Regarding the Brititsh DDs, you can think about SI instead of BFT.

In addition, you said that you(!) prefer RPF. It does not mean, that everybody does.

In fact, there is variation. But yes, 10-13 points seem to be quite standard. 

 

[NikolayKuznetsov]

2 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

In addition, you said that you(!) prefer RPF. It does not mean, that everybody does.

Everyone who knows how to use RPF takes RPF, I was being polite. But lets say you don't like (=don't know how to use) RPF - what build are you going to do?
This if your ship has a heal

 

Spoiler

 

This if your ship does not have a heal

 

Spoiler

 

You're still wasting 2 skillpoints on junk if you don't use RPF

[NikolayKuznetsov]

7 minutes ago, Trench4nt said:

Not sure what is topic is all about.

The topic is about cruisers needing 13 skillpoints to finish their captain build and wasting 8 skillpoints on junk.
Destroyers needing 13 skillpoints (17 if they know how to use RPF) and wasting 8 (or 4) skillpoints on junk.

Meanwhile battleships have one 21pt meta build for non-russians and one 21pt meta build for russians, not a single skillpoint wasted on junk.

There is great value in LV21 battleship captains, there is virtually no value in captains over LV13 in cruisers or destroyers.
If I lost 8 levels on all my cruiser captains and 4 on all my DD captains right now I wouldn't notice.

[Prophecy82]

The skills are, except for fearless brawler and some utter useless skills like expert loader (seriously? on a DD) OK. 

The problem is imho you cant diversify at all. either go full gunboat, or go full torpboat. That leaves you with pretty much 2 builds. Thats it. 

So, besides being a scam and an XP sink, Cap Rework didnt diversify at all. WG, as usual, failed at their "stated goal" but got the monetization right. 

[Trench4nt]

I do not use RPF on my Japanese torpedo boats as it tells the enemy my position. Instead I use the second column (excluding 1x2), as even suggested by WG and SI. I also experimented to give up SE - not sure if I am currently running it. So my torpedo deck drastically differs from the gun deck.

 

In addition you also habe ships like Marceau that needs the 4x1 perk, or Kléber which favours the 1x1.

 

But for sure, you can run the standard gun deck on all gun DDs because you want to maximize reload and information.

[Hirohito]

10 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Everyone who knows how to use RPF takes RPF, I was being polite. But lets say you don't like (=don't know how to use) RPF - what build are you going to do?
This if your ship has a heal

 

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that "everyone who knows how to use RPF takes RPF", and that players who dont take it must simply not know how to use it.
Plenty of good players out there who know how to use it that opt not to.
Marceau and Shima for instance are two boats on the extreme sides of the gunboat/torp boat role archetype, that can be built around no RPF to good effect.

[NikolayKuznetsov]

2 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

The skills are, except for fearless brawler and some utter useless skills like expert loader (seriously? on a DD) OK. 

The problem is imho you cant diversify at all. either go full gunboat, or go full torpboat. That leaves you with pretty much 2 builds. Thats it. 

So, besides being a scam and an XP sink, Cap Rework didnt diversify at all. WG, as usual, failed at their "stated goal" but got the monetization right. 

Right but on top of that I can't even think of two builds without wasting skillpoints on trash, except on my russians where I can actually make use of +20% range and my halland where I actually want fill the tubes and liquidator does something. I'm not even talking about lack of diversity, obviously there is none, but on most DDs there isn't even one build that does not involve picking up junk skills.

[Hirohito]

9 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Destroyers needing 13 skillpoints (17 if they know how to use RPF if they want to use RPF) and wasting 8 (or 4) skillpoints on junk.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Ubertron_X]

6 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Right but on top of that I can't even think of two builds without wasting skillpoints on trash, except on my russians where I can actually make use of +20% range and my halland where I actually want fill the tubes and liquidator does something. I'm not even talking about lack of diversity, obviously there is none, but on most DDs there isn't even one build that does not involve picking up junk skills.

Then you might need to rethink. In between torp heavy, gun heavy or hybrid there is a lot of variation after 10 to 13 skill points (PM, LS, SE, CE & AR).

[NikolayKuznetsov]

5 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that "everyone who knows how to use RPF takes RPF", and that players who dont take it must simply not know how to use it.
Plenty of good players out there who know how to use it that opt not to.
Marceau and Shima for instance are two boats on the extreme sides of the gunboat/torp boat role archetype, that can be built around no RPF to good effect.

Right I don't take it on an open water gunboat either, I'm a bit confused as to why you wouldn't take it on shima if you know how to use it but I'm sure there's a valid reason. We're getting off track with specific builds for specific ships. My question was a general question

 

Why are ten out of twelve 1pt/2pt skills junk.
Why is every 4pt skill junk except for CE, potentially RPF + MBAEE/FEARLESS on french/russians.

Who is ever going to click on dazzle unless they are inebriated? Same for outnumbered on cruisers.
Battleships have one hurrr durrrr skill too with super heavy AP, nobody is ever going to want that, so why is it there?
 

[nambr9]

Don't you just love "the variety" ??? :):):)