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ThePurpleSmurf

Is the Harugumo LU the most op LU in the game?

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Previously it was garbage. But in the current meta everyone sits back and camps. DDs and Cruiser spec, for the most part, for range and dakka and so does the Harugumo. The biggest weakness is, that it can't open water gunboat so its best friend is smoke and this is where the LU comes in. Not only does the LU grant a +1 to all consumables (free SI, no need to spec into it for an additional smoke), it also turns the short duration IJN DD smoke pretty much into a US DD smoke. For a damage machine like the Harugumo, this is living the dream.

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What does that accomplish, though? You drive around until enemy shimakaze spots you while all the thunderers are 20km away, smoke up and farm nothing as nobody spots anything anymore?

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13 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

What does that accomplish, though? You drive around until enemy shimakaze spots you while all the thunderers are 20km away, smoke up and farm nothing as nobody spots anything anymore?

This is why I groan when I start a match and see a Haru on my team. At least 50 per cent odds it’s going to be a useless smoke farming twit LARPing a light cruiser, who does not spot, plays away from the caps, and usually dies without getting anything done.

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3 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

This is why I groan when I start a match and see a Haru on my team. At least 50 per cent odds it’s going to be a useless smoke farming twit LARPing a light cruiser, who does not spot, plays away from the caps, and usually dies without getting anything done.

This is because these players are horsecrap at the game. Harugumo is not easy to play, because of its size and crappy maneuverability. But not every Harugumo player is trash and not everyone sits like a brick in a smoke and waits for torps, but actually knows how to deal with this problem. For these players, the smoke is the most important utility and the longer it lasts the better. But as i can see, you have 74% of your games played in BBs and only 5% DD, so you hardly know much about DD gameplay from first hand.

 

 

@ColonelPeteSo like any other ship in the game? Kinda the job of a DD to torp other ships, well for the most part. But not everyone is a potato who dies this way.

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13 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

This is because these players are horsecrap at the game. Harugumo is not easy to play, because of its size and crappy maneuverability. But not every Harugumo player is trash and not everyone sits like a brick in a smoke and waits for torps, but actually knows how to deal with this problem. For these players, the smoke is the most important utility and the longer it lasts the better. But as i can see, you have 74% of your games played in BBs and only 5% DD, so you hardly know much about DD gameplay from first hand.

 

 

@ColonelPeteSo like any other ship in the game? Kinda the job of a DD to torp other ships, well for the most part. But not everyone is a potato who dies this way.

Most ships are not dependent on sitting in smoke.

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34 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

But not everyone is a potato who dies this way.

Eating a torpedo in a harugumo doesn't mean you're a potato, Harugumo is balanced around being a big clumsy brick, if it wasn't a big clumsy brick, it would be a god. You can avoid eating most torpedoes by using brain.exe but eating one eventually comes with playing that ship even if you play it well. Eating a torpedo in a lightning or a daring is a whole different story

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My biggest gripe with smoke gunboat DDs (Haragumo, Friesland etc.) is that they usually need a spotter instead of providing spotting. Not necessarily bad ships though.

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41 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

This is because these players are horsecrap at the game. Harugumo is not easy to play, because of its size and crappy maneuverability. But not every Harugumo player is trash and not everyone sits like a brick in a smoke and waits for torps, but actually knows how to deal with this problem. For these players, the smoke is the most important utility and the longer it lasts the better. But as i can see, you have 74% of your games played in BBs and only 5% DD, so you hardly know much about DD gameplay from first hand.

 

 

@ColonelPeteSo like any other ship in the game? Kinda the job of a DD to torp other ships, well for the most part. But not everyone is a potato who dies this way.

In what part of my post did I say that all Harugumo players are like that? Or did you reply simply because you want to "burn" me by referring to my low number of DD games? Well done sir!

 

I groan in the same way when I see an Asashio on my team, because many of them seem to be damage farmers who don't concentrate on winning the game. And yet, last time I made a chat comment to that effect (when I saw our Asashio going on a wide flank rather than for the cap), I ended up eating a whole serving of humble pie, because that Asashio carried our team in the game.

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Hmm, I have ever seen a Haru with this upgrade. So it should not have a big impact on the game.

However, it does not protect you against radar and without a second DD you lose the cap due to the lack of concealment? 

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27 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

In what part of my post did I say that all Harugumo players are like that? Or did you reply simply because you want to "burn" me by referring to my low number of DD games? Well done sir!

 

I groan in the same way when I see an Asashio on my team, because many of them seem to be damage farmers who don't concentrate on winning the game. And yet, last time I made a chat comment to that effect (when I saw our Asashio going on a wide flank rather than for the cap), I ended up eating a whole serving of humble pie, because that Asashio carried our team in the game.

I highlighted it above. "an" Asashio player, "a" Harugumo ... this generalizes, otherwise you would have said "some" or "many" or "most of them", but you didn't. And of course it is important what your stats say, because if you are one of those BB players that only want to Deadeye, then yes, you need spotting and don't like to present yourself as target. For this you like to have a DD do all the work, while you can sit back and do exactly what you don't want gunboat DDs to do.

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1 minute ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

I highlighted it above. "an" Asashio player, "a" Harugumo ... this generalizes, otherwise you would have said "some" or "many" or "most of them", but you didn't. And of course it is important what your stats say, because if you are one of those BB players that only want to Deadeye, then yes, you need spotting and don't like to present yourself as target. For this you like to have a DD do all the work, while you can sit back and do exactly what you don't want gunboat DDs to do.

Because obviously it's better that the BB spots for the DD and not the other way around?

 

Furthermore, how do you deduce my playstyle from my stats? You're roasting me for overgeneralising while, apparently, inferring that all or most BBs sit at max range and let the DDs do all the work. Well played, sir.

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4 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Because obviously it's better that the BB spots for the DD and not the other way around?

 

Furthermore, how do you deduce my playstyle from my stats? You're roasting me for overgeneralising while, apparently, inferring that all or most BBs sit at max range and let the DDs do all the work. Well played, sir.

And again, i DO NOT roast you. I just looked at your most played ship class, which is almost 75% BB and only 5% DD, and draw my conclusions. Just the same way as you do about DDs, obviously. Nobody expect you to stop to the front and spot for a DD. But by not sitting at the 1 line and making yourself a target, enemy ships will take potshots at you and then they are spotted and everyone can farm. Simple, no? And where exactly did i say ANY word about that DDs should never spot? There is a time to spot, a time to fight over objectives and a time to farm. Applying some common sense wouldn't hurt. And Harugumo is not the spotter you hope for. It's a devastating damage machine. It is designed to shred other ships with sheer gunpower and not sneak around unspotted so others can brag afterwards with their 200k game.

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54 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

I groan in the same way when I see an Asashio on my team, because many of them seem to be damage farmers who don't concentrate on winning the game. And yet, last time I made a chat comment to that effect (when I saw our Asashio going on a wide flank rather than for the cap), I ended up eating a whole serving of humble pie, because that Asashio carried our team in the game.

Yeah, some are useless (as with any boat) but both variants (normal and B) are in top 4 out of 23 T8 DDs by WR so not as bad as it seems.

It's just different to usual run to the cap and die or win game-style of average DD.:cap_haloween:

Even "useless and farming" Asashio has huge map control just by being somewhere there and is a big terror for average BBs player.

Out-spots most of DDs, can kill low HP ones with big alpha guns.

Needs a support to cap though as can't win alone with gunboats and radars.

For me it has the highest WR of all T8 DDs and all T8 ships (save for Orkan with 3 games only).

Now with 20km campfest in high tiers it's the only DD that can deliver some love to those border line snipers.

it needs a bit of a brain to do well with still and can be murdered by CV with AA rating of 5 but it's hard to find and can be played from safer distance then other smokeless DDs that are totally hopeless in CV game.

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1 minute ago, DariusJacek said:

Yeah, some are useless (as with any boat) but both variants (normal and B) are in top 4 out of 23 T8 DDs by WR so not as bad as it seems.

It's definitely not a bad boat, and one that I absolutely dread to see on the opposing team when playing a BB. I guess it's just the way of things, that the Asashio on my team usually spends the whole game licking windows, while the Asashio on the enemy team is an unholy terror controlling an entire flank by himself.

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10 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

It's definitely not a bad boat, and one that I absolutely dread to see on the opposing team when playing a BB. I guess it's just the way of things, that the Asashio on my team usually spends the whole game licking windows, while the Asashio on the enemy team is an unholy terror controlling an entire flank by himself.

It's how it feels that this game works. My BBs are glue eating HE border huggers when enemy BBs are together with cruisers and DDs in a coordinated push blowing the little support I had to pieces.:cap_haloween:

Obviously it's our brains remembering and blaming bad teams (oh poor me always potatoes) and quickly forgetting about good ones taking all the credit by itself (I carried them again) :Smile_trollface:

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2 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

I just looked at your most played ship class, which is almost 75% BB and only 5% DD, and draw my conclusions.

You can't just look at stats see 75% BB and conclude pepega sniper. You can conclude pepega sniper by looking at stats if someone is BB main with high damage numbers, crap winrate and/or a lot of thunderer games.

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1 hour ago, DariusJacek said:

Obviously it's our brains remembering and blaming bad teams

It's a mindset
I won - Aren't I amazing?
We lost - My teammates were bad, the enemy team was too good, no fair.

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5 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

and conclude pepega sniper

I didn't. Where did i say he only sits in the back row and snipes?

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5 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

I didn't. Where did i say he only sits in the back row and snipes?

I don't think you did say that, I assumed you were using "you" to make a general point. The dude probably figured you were using "you" to mean him.
His stats indicate decent BB main who likes lower tiers, not pepega thunderer sniper.

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6 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

His stats indicate decent BB main who likes lower tiers, not pepega thunderer sniper.

Exactly and his highest DD is a T8, Kagero and Cossack B. Both ships are very stealthy and nimble and vastly different from Harugumo. He has no idea about Harugumo first hand, doesn't know how it handles more like a Cruiser rather than a DD, yet he is discussing in a thread about this very ship and the role of a DD in high tiers. Yes, one can get some hints about how certain ships are played, but some ships have to be played to understand them - Harugumo is one of them, because as i already said, this thing is more like a clumsy cruiser and not comparable to the vast majority of other DDs in the game.

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7 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Exactly and his highest DD is a T8

Multiple things can be true at once, he really is a decent BB main, his DD experience really is limited to sealclubbing in ohotknik. But that doesn't mean his reply is useless here, from a BB perspective, harugumo running LU is not a great teammate. The smoked up harugumo is farming damage from smoke, his cruisers and bbs take a beating to "provide" spotting to their DD, harugumo with LU is almost certainly smoked up and farming all the time, trading his team's HP for the enemy team's HP. Whereas a "real" destroyer can spot and let several teammates farm from behind an island, trading 0 of his team's HP for a bunch of the enemy team's HP.

The guy accidentally gave a pretty good answer to your question, LU is the best on Harugumo for racking up damage numbers but it's probably not that great for winrate because you're unlikely to contest caps or ever give your team the chance to trade very favorably. I understand why a BB main would say "Oh god no please no LU Harugumo"

 

But I am a weird DD player, I'm the kind of DD player battleships and cruisers love, I spot, I chase other destroyers, I contest caps. I dislike torpedo boats and smoke-farmers. When I'm in a selfish mood, I play grozovoi open water gunboat, but doing this I still provide spotting constantly and I still play it with CE so I can still contest caps and chase DDs if that is what the team needs.

I guess LU Harugumo is great for racking up damage numbers but bad for the team, unless you're so damn good in it that the damage you pump out is more than what the 3 cruisers behind you could pump out if they had vision.

I mean, If you can consistently do 250K damage in LU Harugumo, who cares about the guys behind you spamming "I NEED INTELLIGENCE DATA" :cap_haloween: Just mute them

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This conversation between toxicsmurf & arttuperkunas is like an in depth forum version of a BB spamming "I NEED - INTELLIGENCE - DATA" and the DD ignoring it because he has seen no indication that the ships behind him are capable of doing any real damage :fish_cute_2:

I need intelligence data!
No, bad battleship, no intelligence data for you, you sit there and take damage while I farm.
I need intelligence data!
No! Bad battleship!

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