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Pappus

Question about customer support regarding the right of withdrawal

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https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/article/10541/

 

If you look at this, then you can see that there is absolutely no requirement with it.

 

In my case I purchased doubloons (67500) and purchased v. venetto, lepanto skin & whatever that t10 ship is called after buying the armory packages for 1.5k each until I had enough. I wanted to get it revoked, but customer support said that withdrawing from purchase is not possible at all, because I waived the right.

 

Now we don't need to get into the absurdity of laws being waived by a click of a box, but my question stands why customer support denies it.

 

To me it seems I can simply revoke the purchase contract of the doubloons and then they refund that money. They then should remove whatever I purchased with it on my account. (Of course I don't mind if they don't) During the christmas event we saw that this is a possibility for them either via rollback for a few days or taking their specialist to do it by hand.

 

Why do I need to charge another 210€ of doubloons to get a "refund" going, when it is obvious that I will refund those after they are done too.

 

Any1 else got any experience with it? Is there special trigger words you have to use for them to understand what you want?

 

They could literally in step 1) revoke the purchases in the armory, then my account naturally end up with the amount of doubloons that they "need" for my refund and then proceed with that.

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like it or not the Christmas event was a one off, because of the 'makarov' conspiracy, if you bought dubloons and ticked the box acknowledging your agreement to their terms and conditions, then used those dubloons to buy in-game goods then i doubt very much you will get anything back, i'm not stating my support for such practises, i'm just telling you how it is...

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9 minutes ago, Salentine said:

like it or not the Christmas event was a one off, because of the 'makarov' conspiracy, if you bought dubloons and ticked the box acknowledging your agreement to their terms and conditions, then used those dubloons to buy in-game goods then i doubt very much you will get anything back, i'm not stating my support for such practises, i'm just telling you how it is...

You can revoke armory purchases. I have done such an operation in the past. They remove whatever you bought in the armory and give you your doubloons back. As far as I remember you can do it 3 times per account.

 

 

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Modder
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Speaking about cancelling a transaction, I have returned to a game not long ago and used a coupon on coal ship, then I have read that Somers will be removed. Unfortunatelly they told me, giving me back a coupon is impossible ...

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1 hour ago, Pappus said:

You can revoke armory purchases. I have done such an operation in the past. They remove whatever you bought in the armory and give you your doubloons back. As far as I remember you can do it 3 times per account.

 

 

you said it, ship purchases in the armoury, good luck trying to get loot boxes refunded.

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There is a tick box in connection with the purchase, that says "I waive my right to withdraw or something".

 

It's legal as far as I know. Relates to a specific exception to the right to withdraw, under EU consumer law. You can waive your right to withdraw in that specific case, so long as you've been informed that that means you can't refund the purchase. And you have.

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They might also reverse your account to the day before you bought the dubloons and giving you back the money in that way. But... You lose any progress you made from the time you bought the dubloons. They can do it cause they did it in Christmas but if they will do it in your case idk. 

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23 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

There is a tick box in connection with the purchase, that says "I waive my right to withdraw or something".

 

It's legal as far as I know. Relates to a specific exception to the right to withdraw, under EU consumer law. You can waive your right to withdraw in that specific case, so long as you've been informed that that means you can't refund the purchase. And you have.

 

I am really not sure here.

Because this Clause only Permits the waiving of Withdrawal Rights under Specific Conditions.

 

1.

You need to Explicitly Choose to Waive your Right of Withdrawal.

2.

You must do this Voluntarily.

3.

It can only be done for an already performed Service.

 

 

WGs Checkbox here might not be Watertight in that aspect.

 

1.

A tiny standard Checkbox will often not be considered explicit consent.

As most People just Click without reading due to it bein Standard Procedure.

But According to the Law. The Company needs to make sure you understood your rights and and also understood what waiving this right means.

 

Which means it might not be Valid here.

 

2.

This cannot be Mandatory.

But WG doesnt offer an Option to not Waive your Rights here.

 

This not only means it might be Invalid.

It might even be an breach of some Countries Laws.

 

3.

Virtual Goods are still Goods.

Not Services.

So unless you Already used the Goods.

A Refund might be Possible.

As the Right to that Refund cannot be Waived.

 

 

 

Well.

We likely wont find out until more People actually Challenge stuff like that in different Courts and thus we get some Rulings.

 

Till then I would consider this a Fairly Shaky practice.

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11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

I am really not sure here.

Because this Clause only Permits the waiving of Withdrawal Rights under Specific Conditions.

 

1.

You need to Explicitly Choose to Waive your Right of Withdrawal.

2.

You must do this Voluntarily.

3.

It can only be done for an already performed Service.

 

 

WGs Checkbox here might not be Watertight in that aspect.

 

1.

A tiny standard Checkbox will often not be considered explicit consent.

As most People just Click without reading due to it bein Standard Procedure.

But According to the Law. The Company needs to make sure you understood your rights and and also understood what waiving this right means.

 

Which means it might not be Valid here.

 

2.

This cannot be Mandatory.

But WG doesnt offer an Option to not Waive your Rights here.

 

This not only means it might be Invalid.

It might even be an breach of some Countries Laws.

 

3.

Virtual Goods are still Goods.

Not Services.

So unless you Already used the Goods.

A Refund might be Possible.

As the Right to that Refund cannot be Waived.

 

 

 

Well.

We likely wont find out until more People actually Challenge stuff like that in different Courts and thus we get some Rulings.

 

Till then I would consider this a Fairly Shaky practice.

You are at least halfway right. I am not sure I agree with your interpretation of digital goods/services, and I'm not sure your interpretation would stand up in court.

 

However, you are more than right to question whether there is explicit, informed consent here, that's really the crux of the matter. It's quite possible there isn't.

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4 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

You are at least halfway right. I am not sure I agree with your interpretation of digital goods/services, and I'm not sure your interpretation would stand up in court.

 

However, you are more than right to question whether there is explicit, informed consent here, that's really the crux of the matter. It's quite possible there isn't.

If what they claim would actually be working there wouldn't be an article on how to exert your right.

 

I must have gotten some weird customer support guys this time around there is like 5 different ones of them and the actual end result was that they made me buy 67500 doubloons to then refund the 67500 doubloons that I purchased beforehand.


I dunno what kind of customer service asks their customer to pay 220€ to get 210€ back. Now I still have the armory goods, but the 210€ are back. When such an operation would ever make sense I don't know and it remained unanswered.

 

If you require further proof:

 

image.png.8ccec4e21d32903ab69a5c4f39d64aaa.png

 

That is wargaming refunding 3 payments I "waived" my rights to refund after they had me stock up on doubloons. Don't ask me what the point of doing this is either, cause I don't know. I have never seen such a stupidity happen. Now I still need the armory stuff removed

 

image.thumb.png.ad96f3b8bbafb4e0095d1f63ccef0d24.png

image.thumb.png.f4a012bd4f248638c9fb63874a305f4e.png

 

Here the case is made for reversing armory purchases.

18 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

I am really not sure here.

Because this Clause only Permits the waiving of Withdrawal Rights under Specific Conditions.

 

1.

You need to Explicitly Choose to Waive your Right of Withdrawal.

2.

You must do this Voluntarily.

3.

It can only be done for an already performed Service.

 

 

WGs Checkbox here might not be Watertight in that aspect.

 

1.

A tiny standard Checkbox will often not be considered explicit consent.

As most People just Click without reading due to it bein Standard Procedure.

But According to the Law. The Company needs to make sure you understood your rights and and also understood what waiving this right means.

 

Which means it might not be Valid here.

 

2.

This cannot be Mandatory.

But WG doesnt offer an Option to not Waive your Rights here.

 

This not only means it might be Invalid.

It might even be an breach of some Countries Laws.

 

3.

Virtual Goods are still Goods.

Not Services.

So unless you Already used the Goods.

A Refund might be Possible.

As the Right to that Refund cannot be Waived.

 

 

 

Well.

We likely wont find out until more People actually Challenge stuff like that in different Courts and thus we get some Rulings.

 

Till then I would consider this a Fairly Shaky practice.

I actually also tried not to revoke the rights and it indeed doesn't work.

 

You cannot waive your rights away this simply, the only reason it is there is to make people not pursue the matter.

 

 

 

However I don't care about pursuing the matter since all I need to do is go visit a lawyer at no cost since my insurance covers such cases. As it has become increasingly difficult these days to handle customer support since they are trained to push customers away to save money.

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2 minutes ago, Pappus said:

If what they claim would actually be working there wouldn't be an article on how to exert your right.

 

I must have gotten some weird customer support guys this time around there is like 5 different ones of them and the actual end result was that they made me buy 67500 doubloons to then refund the 67500 doubloons that I purchased beforehand.


I dunno what kind of customer service asks their customer to pay 220€ to get 210€ back. Now I still have the armory goods, but the 210€ are back. When such an operation would ever make sense I don't know and it remained unanswered.

 

If you require further proof:

 

image.png.8ccec4e21d32903ab69a5c4f39d64aaa.png

You have nothing to prove to me. My comment was a general one on the wargaming waiver/notification you get when you buy something. Whether that waiver is legit, and whether it means anything in your specific case is something you should certainly talk to your lawyer about, not a random internet person :).

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7 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

You are at least halfway right. I am not sure I agree with your interpretation of digital goods/services, and I'm not sure your interpretation would stand up in court.

 

However, you are more than right to question whether there is explicit, informed consent here, that's really the crux of the matter. It's quite possible there isn't.

 

Thats the Problem.

Right now we cant be sure about how it stands up in Court because it hasnt been tested yet.

So far the only Court Ruling I am aware off has Specificly mentioned the 3 points above as reasoning for it to be considered Valid.

And that Ruling is from a lower level Court in Germany.

So even that Ruling could still be Appealed and Escalated.

 

Hence why I am saying I am clearly not sure.

 

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Vor 10 Stunden, Pappus sagte:

In my case I purchased doubloons (67500) and purchased v. venetto, lepanto skin & whatever that t10 ship is called after buying the armory packages for 1.5k each until I had enough.

:Smile_amazed:b u t    w h y y y y y y y . . .

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