Torpedo spread nerf at IJN torpedo bombers in patch 0.3.1.2

[Haatra]

There is thread about torpedo spread nerf at IJN torp. bombers in patch 0.3.1.2 at RU forum.

 

What it is about? Compare, please, next 2 screenshots - first was taken before patch 0.3.1.2 and second was taken after patch 0.3.1.2.

 

 

 

As developer Sub_Octavian explained, it is the game ballance testing before patch 0.3.2. Reason for this change was that unskilled players using automatic torpedo launch were not able to hit enemy ships at all or they hit enemy ships only sometimes. On other hand skilled players with manual torpedo lauch damaged enemy ships too heavy. Because of that  now it is easier for unskilled players to hit enemy ships at least once and skilled players are not so dangerous.

 

 

[Et_Lanatus_baro]

yup short version is:- They nerfing skill

[Haatra]

yup short version is:- They nerfing skill

 

Exactly. But this nerf is just tested now.

[wremise]

i think they will buff that spread in next patch again, but now way it will be so small like pre nerf, i think the middle of both will come. a little bit smaller as it is now, but bigger as is was pre nerf.

[Captain_Edwards]

i think they will buff that spread in next patch again, but now way it will be so small like pre nerf, i think the middle of both will come. a little bit smaller as it is now, but bigger as is was pre nerf.

 

Yeah that's what I think too. Its a little too big now compared to previously. So half way between the two should be a decent "middle ground" for all to use it properly.

[Pawndemonium]

Reasonable to test.

Considering that IJN CVs have more squadrons it promotes focusing a single target, this is nowhere near final, the devs just try options to reduce the gap between the nations, while still having diversity. Some weeks ago US CV players cried that they lack more TB squadrons. There is a lot of stuff which needs to be worked on, like DBs and fighters in general, but seeing some sort of progression to not make people think the IJN has superior TB action is a good start. Quite late at this stage of the "beta", but yeah... let's just see how the whole picture looks, they have to have a plan at this stage.

 

While this obviously is just my opinion a CV shouldn't have the power to take out a BB with one cycle of TBs in most cases, while it should happen occasionaly (mostly dependant if your victim reacts), it shouldn't be part of their role. CVs should be more of a support vessel, to wear down the opposition slowly, instead of blowing the fun out instantly for the targeted guy.

And that guy who spams useless crap images to promote his own opinion, and comes up with real-life statistics, don't even start... thx .p

[Ishiro32]

I don't think nerfing the control is a good design decision. No matter how you look at it.
If I mess up I want to know why, then I know how to improve, then If I improve I want to see result of that. Sure messing with control means that bad players are less prone to make horrible mistakes, but at the same time full control is needed to outplay a good enemy and to feel good about it. Simple as that, the statistics are less important than feel of the game. Unless end result is the clicker class.. 

 

Pawndemonium, CVs were not a support unit. They were jack of all trades, master of all. Considering design philosophy, CVs should be hard counter to BBs and with huge "reload" times on the attacks and a lot of counter messures to lower the damage available I don't see them being useful if they were not able to fun out their targets. You should get more experience, before talking about them.

[Seinta]

Let's make World of tanks more newbie friendly:

Let's remove the armor and have all tanks take damage regardless of angle of armor. After all a skilled played can negate most if not all damage and destroy tanks by shooting at weak spots.

If everyone get's damage then skilled players won't be so dangerous and unskilled players will have a chance againts them.

 

This is a PVP game!!!! The players got skilled by playing, we started from 0 and got skilled by playing our ships and you want to pander to people who don't want to improve.....

The way they are going with this game, I am so happy I didn't buy any more tokens..... 

[Vogel]

Problem was that any competent player could use a single torp squad to fors a BB player to turn, and then proceed to use two other ones with manual drop to deal heavy damage (if not gib) the BB. Now, I don't agree with the nerfs as it is now, but I can understand the dilemma. If we refer to WoT, then the only reason the late KV-1s was remotely balanced were the bad players driving it.

 

For me, I think a much more elegant solution would be to increase arming time, so that you might be able to avoid hits from manual drop by either turning into them, or manage to some of them due to the longer approach run. But I do think they should punish "straight-liners" considerably, just as they did before 

[Captain_Edwards]

I personally think all torpedoes should have arming distances, regardless of source. Air dropped fish have a minimum arming distance but cruiser and destroyers do not. That seems a little funky to me, and it seems like the arming distance should be a universal mechanic with national variations on distance and detectability.

 

That would mean some consistency in the mechanics and torpedoes behaving the same between air and sea for a given nation.

[Vogel]

They do have arming distance, but it is 500 meters or so on the distance length scale.

[Captain_Edwards]

Not from what I have seen. I have been side to side within that range and had torps fired at me from both DD and CA that took me out. And I do mean really close up, like any closer and it would be a ram attack. Maybe its bugged? And why distance alone? Would not time in the water be a better system?

[Seinta]

Problem was that any competent player could use a single torp squad to fors a BB player to turn, and then proceed to use two other ones with manual drop to deal heavy damage (if not gib) the BB. Now, I don't agree with the nerfs as it is now, but I can understand the dilemma. If we refer to WoT, then the only reason the late KV-1s was remotely balanced were the bad players driving it.

 

For me, I think a much more elegant solution would be to increase arming time, so that you might be able to avoid hits from manual drop by either turning into them, or manage to some of them due to the longer approach run. But I do think they should punish "straight-liners" considerably, just as they did before 

 

And what happens when you put 1km arming distance and skilled players still wreck BBs?

It's not the fault of the CV player that some guy in a BB decided to go Rambo.

With the US BBs with absurd AA and DD like maneuverability, all use of brain cells is out of the window. Back when you had only IJN BBs and decent AA, you actualy had to think before you act, people actualy escorted each other and they knew how to evade.

[Vogel]

And what happens when you put 1km arming distance and skilled players still wreck BBs?

Then it is his own fault for doing nothing about it

[Deckeru_Maiku]

I wouldn't consider myself a "good" CV driver but a "decent" one. See stats for details...

 

Right now I play my two CVs quite a lot. With the Independence I've managed to kill a couple BBs over the last few days using just a single TB squad and firing only one well placed spread, even if they tried turning... hitting a BB travelling alone with 4 to 5 out of six torpedoes is not only possible, but even quite easy imho.

 

At the same time I have real problems to get more than three torpedo hits against a comparable target with my three (!) squads of IJN TBs.

 

So, yes, it's an awfull nerf.

[uocat]

Reasonable to test.

Considering that IJN CVs have more squadrons it promotes focusing a single target, this is nowhere near final, the devs just try options to reduce the gap between the nations, while still having diversity. Some weeks ago US CV players cried that they lack more TB squadrons. There is a lot of stuff which needs to be worked on, like DBs and fighters in general, but seeing some sort of progression to not make people think the IJN has superior TB action is a good start. Quite late at this stage of the "beta", but yeah... let's just see how the whole picture looks, they have to have a plan at this stage.

 

While this obviously is just my opinion a CV shouldn't have the power to take out a BB with one cycle of TBs in most cases, while it should happen occasionaly (mostly dependant if your victim reacts), it shouldn't be part of their role. CVs should be more of a support vessel, to wear down the opposition slowly, instead of blowing the fun out instantly for the targeted guy.

And that guy who spams useless crap images to promote his own opinion, and comes up with real-life statistics, don't even start... thx .p

Yes, that is the point for the 2 cv lines. Also my opinion is to nerf the speed of planes so that encourage bbs to "pre-evade" rather than spread nerf like we have now

[Elderdaddy]

to many bad BB players

 

 

btw u still missing the point. IJN CV ware fine but at same time they killed USN CV. There is absolutely no point of playing that crap. Ranger or Lexi are unplayable. Essex only with super offensive setup. If rhey will keep previous setups we will have:

 

USN with more plane in squadron, longer service time and less number of squadron

IJN  more squadrons shorter service time and less planes per squadrons

 

 

perfect balance. U have better micro management and u need flexibility go IJN u want brute force go USN  

[Sharana]

Not from what I have seen. I have been side to side within that range and had torps fired at me from both DD and CA that took me out. And I do mean really close up, like any closer and it would be a ram attack. Maybe its bugged? And why distance alone? Would not time in the water be a better system?

 

That is not enough? What should it be then?

 

 

[Captain_Edwards]

 

That is not enough? What should it be then?

 

 

 

I know thats the norm but as I said I have been even closer and still got hit. Its why I made the point. I have literally been at the range the shadow on that pic is and got slamed by a full spread. I will try and grab a screenie and replay if it happens again. But to answer your question, personally I think it should be a little further out. For reference, I think the arc should intersect the minimaps A1 square left corner in that pic.

[Djerin]

to many bad BB players

 

It's not like there are only bad BB players. In my experience the skill distribution is fairly equal between all classes. For BBs it's just more obvious, because they are the slowest ships and are thus the easiest to hit.

 

I play mostly BBs and I was fine with the strength of CVs in 0.3.0 when there were only Americans. Imho they were much more dangerous than both nations' CVs now. And the Japanese BBs were not as agile either. Still it was no big problem to deal with the majority of noob CV drivers. Only occassionally a good one was hellbent to get my dodgy arse. Then I died if my team couldn't help me. No biggie.

 

We need to understand though, that WG has a huge pool of data to see how well certain things work. And maybe they realized that the balance was skewed when baddies engaged each other. Hard to tell really if they don't communicate the reasons for their changes.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

btw u still missing the point. IJN CV ware fine but at same time they killed USN CV. There is absolutely no point of playing that crap. Ranger or Lexi are unplayable. Essex only with super offensive setup. If rhey will keep previous setups we will have:

 

USN with more plane in squadron, longer service time and less number of squadron

IJN  more squadrons shorter service time and less planes per squadrons

 

 

perfect balance. U have better micro management and u need flexibility go IJN u want brute force go USN  

 

as it is now

 

• US fighters eat IJN fighters for breakfast. When squads go 1:1 they have more planes and more ammo and they are tougher.
• US TB have six planes per squad and release their torpedoes in a smaller spread than the four IJN TBs per squad, enhancing hit chances enormously
• US DBs are tougher than the IJN, which also come in smaller squads that get annihilated without being able to drop even one bomb way faster

 

So imho all the advantages right now are on the side of the US CVs. I'm only playing both types at tier VI right now, but for me the advantage is obvious in every game I play...

 

 

[Sharana]

They are made to be the "easy" option for noobs. They play with fighters, so can't really affect the game and 1shot BBs. At the same time they simply point and click with their fighters (so much skill) making it harder for the good players to actually kill ships and affect the game. WG's way of balancing them, but some still somehow succeed in killing them fast and then nuking the other ships and nerf to the accuracy was needed, so they can't 1shot BBs and also those noobs (in 95% of the cases noob players) with fighters (was pretty usual with my Shokaku).

 

That's the biggest problem I have right now with IJN CVs. BBs OK, they will suffer less, if it's better for the balance I'm fine with it. But when I outsmart the enemy fighter CV make it to his ship with TBs I deserve to kill him with good manual drop as before. Instead I can now just damage him badly if he is not 2-3 tiers below me. So I wasted 5min, used the DBs as decoy and I can't eliminate the threath for me, because noob protection was activated and he can keep on clicking on my bombers and have his definition fun (yes some have fun just shooting down planes, even if they are completely useless)  

[Elderdaddy]

Deckeru_Maiku, on 30 May 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

 

as it is now

 

• US fighters eat IJN fighters for breakfast. When squads go 1:1 they have more planes and more ammo and they are tougher.
• US TB have six planes per squad and release their torpedoes in a smaller spread than the four IJN TBs per squad, enhancing hit chances enormously
• US DBs are tougher than the IJN, which also come in smaller squads that get annihilated without being able to drop even one bomb way faster

 

So imho all the advantages right now are on the side of the US CVs. I'm only playing both types at tier VI right now, but for me the advantage is obvious in every game I play...

 

 

 

i know that my english is crapy but i never thought that is so bad

[Ishiro32]

Sharana, I don't get why you think not killing US CV is biggest problem :p. A lot of tactics for IJN became obsolete.

My biggest gripe for example is that my favourite tactic, let's call it long drop became completly unusable. There were sitatuions whenI was engaging BB just with one TB squad and was putting torps so they would hit at the more or less 3/4 of their max range. You could really catch some players with that as most of the time they do not expect TB to drop their load from such a range, because of it they do not evade until it's too late. I was not doing that very often as this is very situational, but If I cought someone with that it felt awesome. Those 2-3 hits out of 4 felt much better and I was excited about them much more than 4 out of 4 which activated few meters from broadside. I can't do that with US CVs as their drops are too expensive to risk that little gimmick. So no more long drops for me.

 

Click... click.. click... can't wait for the new patch... Carrier clicker, just click on the big red button and you receive some exp and credits... click... click... 

[DtXpwnz]

As developer Sub_Octavian explained, it is the game ballance testing before patch 0.3.2. Reason for this change was that unskilled players using automatic torpedo launch were not able to hit enemy ships at all or they hit enemy ships only sometimes. On other hand skilled players with manual torpedo lauch damaged enemy ships too heavy. Because of that  now it is easier for unskilled players to hit enemy ships at least once and skilled players are not so dangerous.

 

Idiots donkeys deserve to hit crap. What is the point of playing this game if there is no learning curve?

 

So if I am half-paralyzed monkey playing lets say BB... do I deserve to do same dmg (or similar) as someone who played several K games in BBs? So please give me autoaim then...