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Tanaka_15

Fix you game

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Can we pls have some nerf to bbs, this game is geting stupid with overflow of bbs in each game.

 shot-21_03.13_15_35.07-0612.thumb.jpg.2ac7fc09bb193cc4b2f58db88c3c1849.jpgshot-21_03.14_07_11.14-0655.thumb.jpg.3493b5f555794a06354aed948feb1130.jpg

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When you post a MM thread, complaining about BB overpopulation, while you yourself are playing BB is below credible.

 

So how about you contribute to the solution by picking something else?

Or are you yourself entitled to play BBs while others are not?

 

How can you make a reasonable MM when 80% of people in queue pick the same ship class ... enlighten me.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3qf2pKqgZLdYUGNDIHmP

 

BBs have always been the most popular class in the game, because they require the reaction time of a mammoth.

 

Counter them by playing a DD for example like your Ostergotland game ... that is a good MM for you then isn't it?

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2 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

How can you make a reasonable MM when 80% of people in queue pick the same ship class ... enlighten me.

Maybe, just maybe we are at this point for a reason that this class is to strong? just an idea.. 

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Just now, Tanaka_15 said:

Maybe, just maybe we are at this point for a reason that this class is to strong? just an idea.. 

 

Yes you are right about that ... but not just too strong .. but the easiest and most forgiving to play class, especially after DeadEye was introduced (beside CVs, that get boring pretty fast).

But that has been a problem since the start ... the BB play is just too appealing to most of the player base.

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Just now, nambr9 said:

 

Yes you are right about that ... but not just too strong .. but the easiest and most forgiving to play class, especially after DeadEye was introduced (beside CVs, that get boring pretty fast).

But that has been a problem since the start ... the BB play is just too appealing to most of the player base.

I know, but camone 6 bbs ++ games are no fun to anyone. (unless im in assashio ofc) but camone wg need to try to help crusers in some way 

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Vor 4 Minuten, Tanaka_15 sagte:

Maybe, just maybe we are at this point for a reason that this class is to strong? just an idea.. 

but I thought BBs are unplayable right now, due to CVs, HE spamming cruisers and torp spamming DDs?

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7 minutes ago, Klopirat said:

but I thought BBs are unplayable right now, due to CVs, HE spamming cruisers and torp spamming DDs?

 

Not if they are played "correctly" .... at range ... behind everyone ...  ;) 

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44 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

I know, but camone 6 bbs ++ games are no fun to anyone. (unless im in assashio ofc) but camone wg need to try to help crusers in some way 

This is a player issue as well, as @nambr9 pointed out in his first post.

It's hard the guess which side will give in first (players playing less BB - WG making BBs less comfortable to play).

 

If this is really an issue for you: be part of the change and stop playing BB. Otherwise: why complain?

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Let's hold our horses until dead eye gets changed and cruisers may become viable again (seriously, am I alone in hardly touching them anymore?). 

 

It is but the current meta, I'm rather optimistic things will change again. Though introducing even more dd hunters (Vampire 2, new brit t10 dd) whIle the amount of radar will increase even further will make dd play more challenging. That is until subs are introduced. By that point dds need to be fundamentally rebalanced since by then they will have to do all the work. 

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8 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

This is a player issue as well, as @nambr9 pointed out in his first post.

It's hard the guess which side will give in first (players playing less BB - WG making BBs less comfortable to play).

 

If this is really an issue for you: be part of the change and stop playing BB. Otherwise: why complain?

This is not player issue thb. Players play the strongest and esiest to play class : BBs. 

WG overbuffed bbs to the point that there is no real reson to even try use cruser, so you can play a dd (much harder and more demanding class ) or go for easy 100k each game in a BB, the skill rework and CVs killed other clases so we have this meta. 

And the developer need to fix this, people will always look for easy win. 

 

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1 hour ago, nambr9 said:

When you post a MM thread, complaining about BB overpopulation, while you yourself are playing BB is below credible.

 

So how about you contribute to the solution by picking something else?

Or are you yourself entitled to play BBs while others are not?

 

How can you make a reasonable MM when 80% of people in queue pick the same ship class ... enlighten me.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3qf2pKqgZLdYUGNDIHmP

 

BBs have always been the most popular class in the game, because they require the reaction time of a mammoth.

 

Counter them by playing a DD for example like your Ostergotland game ... that is a good MM for you then isn't it?

Problem aren't only battleships, problem are also carriers. Battleship overpopulation is partly due to carriers: they do much if not most of the spotting, even at low tier where I still play - and they don't even have to work for it! As a result, destroyers and cruisers become kinda... of iffy utility, shall I say. Whenever I play in a destroyer - which is all the time nowadays, battleships I find boring and I have hard time staying focused on the game - I know to avoid the middle axis of the map because that is a designated "carrier duelling arena" and anything sailing in there gets spotted. Which, in a destroyer, is bad, even if the carrier doesn't decide to send half a dozen strike squadrons your way (which quite a few do). So any time I get spotted by a carrier aircraft, I have to drop everything I am doing and try to get away ASAP, either by smoking myself up, seeking nearest friendly ship with crapload of AAA (read: battleship), or trying to evade.

 

EDIT: As far as battleships themselves go, if they come among the islands they are actually fun to have. But combine carrier spotting + long-range skills, and they don't need to come among the islands. Which means that destroyers are not a problem, and so there is no need for cruisers, as @Tanaka_15 pointed out. Battleships become floating batteries and AAA platforms for carriers.

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36 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Let's hold our horses until dead eye gets changed and cruisers may become viable again (seriously, am I alone in hardly touching them anymore?). 

 

 

 

 

No your not alone, BB overpopulation and the introduction of dead eye (as well as captain skills rework choice for cruisers) was literally the worst combination for this class. Weather it was bad coincidence or WG not having the foresight to see the result of this combination I just don't know.

A more syndical person would be forgiven to think it was done on purpose because literally no game designers/developers could be this blind to wreck a class that fundamentally makes this game work ie. an essential supporting role for the two remaining classes.

Its like a sandwich with no filling. That's not a sandwich. its just bread.

Man (or woman) cannot live on bread alone.

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If I had a match with 6 BBs I would be probably enraged too. Because with my luck I joined with a gun boat DD instead with my torpedo Fletcher.

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39 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

 

 

No your not alone, BB overpopulation and the introduction of dead eye (as well as captain skills rework choice for cruisers) was literally the worst combination for this class. Weather it was bad coincidence or WG not having the foresight to see the result of this combination I just don't know.

A more syndical person would be forgiven to think it was done on purpose because literally no game designers/developers could be this blind to wreck a class that fundamentally makes this game work ie. an essential supporting role for the two remaining classes.

Its like a sandwich with no filling. That's not a sandwich. its just bread.

Man (or woman) cannot live on bread alone.

Or rather why play a cruiser for accuracy that can get punished when you can achieve the same Accuracy with a stupendous amount of armor. ..

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2 hours ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Can we pls have some nerf to bbs, this game is geting stupid with overflow of bbs in each game.

Without CV, such games can be very comfortable to cruisers. You can park behind island and farm a lot, without too much worry about beeing spotted. Often nobody is contesting caps, so You can take them for free too.

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2 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

Without CV, such games can be very comfortable to cruisers. You can park behind island and farm a lot, without too much worry about beeing spotted. Often nobody is contesting caps, so You can take them for free too.

not all cruisers can shoot over islands.

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8 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

not all cruisers can shoot over islands.

With a little spot, even Stalingrad could have no problem with that:

 

 

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Either remove HE from BBs or atleast remove the fire starting capability. Thats one way to make them less appealing to the average player, because they cant just farm 100k damage from safety. Its simply horrible game design, that you can deal the most damage while putting yourself out of harms way entirely (CVs anyone?).

At the same time, CV spotting needs to go so that ships can safely move closer without getting blasted to death halfway in the open, because CV is accidently spotting them on the way. That way, DDs and Cruisers will have an easier time playing around caps, and even a BB can move up better, as it only has to deal with the CV strikes, and not also getting farmed from 20km HE ThundeLELs.

But yeah, thats just completely wishful thinking.

 

The other problem with Cruisers is, that the average player is simply incapable of playing them properly. That wont change. At the same time, cruisers dont really perform badly for unicums, so buffing them would only make them stronger. But why not i suppose? Its not a problem with CVs, so why should it be a problem with Cruisers?

Anyway, i think we are too far in the crap at this point to salvage it. There are too many ships and gimmicks to balance it and make Cruisers more appealing to the average person. The average player gains nothing from playing cruisers

- he deals less damage than in a BB

- he dies much faster than in a BB

- if he chooses to stay safe in the back, he cant even shoot anymore

Why should he pick a Cruiser instead of a BB? To have a miserable time?

 

Was just checking the most played ships in the last month, from the first 14! spots, 12 are BBs, 2 are DDs (not surprisingly Shima and Halland) And on places 15-17 we have 3 Cruisers - which are all german. Again, not a surprise in that, since i assume its just germans interested in playing german ships (looking at NA, the most played Cruiser is Omaha... yep, its just prefering a certain nation)

On place 24 we have Alaska - not a surprise either as its more of a BB than a Cruiser.

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8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Either remove HE from BBs or atleast remove the fire starting capability. Thats one way to make them less appealing to the average player, because they cant just farm 100k damage from safety. Its simply horrible game design, that you can deal the most damage while putting yourself out of harms way entirely (CVs anyone?).

At the same time, CV spotting needs to go so that ships can safely move closer without getting blasted to death halfway in the open, because CV is accidently spotting them on the way. That way, DDs and Cruisers will have an easier time playing around caps, and even a BB can move up better, as it only has to deal with the CV strikes, and not also getting farmed from 20km HE ThundeLELs.

But yeah, thats just completely wishful thinking.

 

The other problem with Cruisers is, that the average player is simply incapable of playing them properly. That wont change. At the same time, cruisers dont really perform badly for unicums, so buffing them would only make them stronger. But why not i suppose? Its not a problem with CVs, so why should it be a problem with Cruisers?

Anyway, i think we are too far in the crap at this point to salvage it. There are too many ships and gimmicks to balance it and make Cruisers more appealing to the average person. The average player gains nothing from playing cruisers

- he deals less damage than in a BB

- he dies much faster than in a BB

- if he chooses to stay safe in the back, he cant even shoot anymore

Why should he pick a Cruiser instead of a BB? To have a miserable time?

 

Was just checking the most played ships in the last month, from the first 14! spots, 12 are BBs, 2 are DDs (not surprisingly Shima and Halland) And on places 15-17 we have 3 Cruisers - which are all german. Again, not a surprise in that, since i assume its just germans interested in playing german ships (looking at NA, the most played Cruiser is Omaha... yep, its just prefering a certain nation)

On place 24 we have Alaska - not a surprise either as its more of a BB than a Cruiser.

Yes to HE removal

Yes to cv spotting

No to your argument about cruisers. If we're talking about a dm or Salem farming stupid enemies from behind an island maybe, but with dead eye 10k bb salvos to the super structure of a bow in stalingrad from across the map is quite the norm. Granted, I'm no great cruiser player, but this class is so dependent on the match maker. ...

 

I do agree though that cruisers do not need a buff, yet the game needs to change to make them more survivable against bbs.

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32 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

No to your argument about cruisers. If we're talking about a dm or Salem farming stupid enemies from behind an island maybe, but with dead eye 10k bb salvos to the super structure of a bow in stalingrad from across the map is quite the norm. Granted, I'm no great cruiser player, but this class is so dependent on the match maker. ... 

 

I do agree though that cruisers do not need a buff, yet the game needs to change to make them more survivable against bbs.

 

Well the biggest problem is the amount of effort one needs to put in to get decent Cruiser games. And i dont mean shooting HE from maxrange - thats the same as Thunderer does, and he does it much better than a Cruiser.

I dont have that many problems playing Cruisers, even with deadeye around. But its extremely demanding to play that way. Playing around caps, with DDs throwing walls of torps at you, CV spotting and dropping you, BBs shooting from 20km (well luckily they do shoot from 20km - gives me more time to dodge)...

 

image.png.96d69589bc8cef8b0a7c95dea478f121.png

Games/WR/damage/Survivability (this years battles) which results in 81% survivability.

Most games were decent-good, except Albemarle/Stalingrad/Ägir... And if enemies just camp hard, then you have a shitty time with something like Albemarle.

But too often it burns you out... one day, i played DDs in ranked, and later on Cruisers/DDs in randoms, and at some point i had to stop playing because i was mentally exhausted. Playing BBs/CVs is too easy, while playing DDs/Cruisers is way too demanding, atleast if you want to get anywhere near the same results as a BB.

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2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well the biggest problem is the amount of effort one needs to put in to get decent Cruiser games. And i dont mean shooting HE from maxrange - thats the same as Thunderer does, and he does it much better than a Cruiser.

I dont have that many problems playing Cruisers, even with deadeye around. But its extremely demanding to play that way. Playing around caps, with DDs throwing walls of torps at you, CV spotting and dropping you, BBs shooting from 20km (well luckily they do shoot from 20km - gives me more time to dodge)...

 

image.png.96d69589bc8cef8b0a7c95dea478f121.png

Games/WR/damage/Survivability (this years battles) which results in 81% survivability.

Most games were decent-good, except Albemarle/Stalingrad/Ägir... And if enemies just camp hard, then you have a shitty time with something like Albemarle.

But too often it burns you out... one day, i played DDs in ranked, and later on Cruisers/DDs in randoms, and at some point i had to stop playing because i was mentally exhausted. Playing BBs/CVs is too easy, while playing DDs/Cruisers is way too demanding, atleast if you want to get anywhere near the same results as a BB.

Oh I totally agree that great players can have awesome results. My YY loved the commander update, I have had a lot of fun in dds in general, but you are way above average in cruisers, as I am in terms of dds. The implications for average players are way different though. 

 

Remember all the fuzz about radar about 2 years back? We are seeing the same scenario for cruisers now. 

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42 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Yes to HE removal

Yes to cv spotting

No to your argument about cruisers. If we're talking about a dm or Salem farming stupid enemies from behind an island maybe, but with dead eye 10k bb salvos to the super structure of a bow in stalingrad from across the map is quite the norm. Granted, I'm no great cruiser player, but this class is so dependent on the match maker. ...

 

I do agree though that cruisers do not need a buff, yet the game needs to change to make them more survivable against bbs.

There is a potential solution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_8-inch_Mk_VIII_naval_gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_16-inch_Mk_I_naval_gun

 

Make lower-calibre guns have higher muzzle velocity than higher-calibre guns, and less dispersion. Plus a fire-starting bonus to cruisers and DDs. That way battleships may hit harder, but cruisers will hit more consistently.

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5 hours ago, Tanaka_15 said:

this game is geting stupid with overflow of bbs in each game.

It just reflects real historical fleets

 

Spoiler

1526333895_bbhuggahugga.thumb.jpg.2aeb59cc7b2523e6e36b0af86b8de4f1.jpg

 

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23 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Make lower-calibre guns have higher muzzle velocity than higher-calibre guns, and less dispersion. Plus a fire-starting bonus to cruisers and DDs. That way battleships may hit harder, but cruisers will hit more consistently.

 

Thats already how it is in game. Smaller caliber guns have a higher muzzle velocity than BBs.

DDs and Cruisers also have better dispersion than BBs. But smaller caliber shells lose more speed at range, thus hitting things at range tends to be harder than with BB shells, which retain their speed better than Cruisers/DDs.

image.thumb.png.5b480386d760e177f0a79e8b9694e71c.png

 

Even the NC, which has notoriously slow shells, has only slightly slower shells than Zao, which has good shell speed.

image.thumb.png.57d7fdc132bcbe8a384636001a63b18f.png

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14 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats already how it is in game. Smaller caliber guns have a higher muzzle velocity than BBs.

DDs and Cruisers also have better dispersion than BBs. But smaller caliber shells lose more speed at range, thus hitting things at range tends to be harder than with BB shells, which retain their speed better than Cruisers/DDs.

 image.thumb.png.5b480386d760e177f0a79e8b9694e71c.png

 

Even the NC, which has notoriously slow shells, has only slightly slower shells than Zao, which has good shell speed.

image.thumb.png.57d7fdc132bcbe8a384636001a63b18f.png

Yeah, but it obviously isn't enough...

 

How about making subsystem damage more extensive option? Say, HE shells can wreck not just weapons and steering gear, but also targeting, communications and so on? So a battleship that gets hit with HE shells may find itself unable to target enemies at more than, say, half or one-third the maximum range (reflecting the switch from central fire control to local turret fire control) - which means that destroyers may still reduce battleship's ability to fight even without torpedoes. Or turrets may get jammed even if they are not destroyed. A hit to radio array to make player unable to send messages, and also add possibility of radar being disabled - not only from enemy direct hits but also from splash damage, even from one's own guns. And torpedoes might also cause subsystem damage - a hit to stern would thus potentially jam steering, destroy propulsion and cause heavier flooding than normal. Of course, this might end up promoting camping even more... but in World War I and II, it was the case that if a battleship found itself in a shooting range of a couple of heavy cruisers, it would get rendered combat-ineffective in a very short order. Not sunk, but it wouldn't be able to fight. Also, increase the importance of subsystem damage in general.

 

And limit the range of battleship and cruiser secondaries. If they have destroyer guns for secondaries, they should not outrange destroyers.

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