ManuelElMenthol Players 9 posts 1,448 battles Report post #1 Posted March 12, 2021 The balancing of Aircraft Carriers is currently a heavily discussed topic. The issue seems to divide the player base and Wargaming is currently not doing anything to solve this issue. It does not matter what your stance regarding this problem is, but I hope there is one thing we can all agree on: Dreadnoughts need an AA Buff. I personally love to play at lower tiers. This is largely due to the passive Meta at the top tiers and the absence of brawling. While the latter issue can be solved by moving to lower tiers, the little fun that can be had there immediately gets mitigated by the presence of a CV. Ships at tier III obviously get no AA to defend themselves and the AA of most Dreadnoughts at tier IV is also next to none. It gets better at Tier V although there are still quite a few Battleships that have no effective way to defend themselves. A great example would be the Viribus Unitis, she only deals 11 DPS in addition to her already small health pool of 35 700 (at tier V!). I have 250 Games in the VU and about every fifth game is made unplayable by a CV and there are many other ships suffering from the same fate. This Issue does also concern most cruisers and Destroyers of this era. The reason why I am pointing out Dreadnoughts specifically is because of their slow speed. Taking evasive maneuvers in a Battleship that barely breaks 20 knots is a waste of time, the CV is going to hit you anyways. There are many ways Wargaming can solve this problem. In my opinion the best option would be to add an upgrade called something like “AA modernization Module”. This upgrade should be available in Slot II and would add a few AA Guns or increase the damage dealt. Another solution would be to add some form of skill that would increase the damage dealt by the AA Guns by the amount of time planes have been spending in your AA range. After leaving the area the DPS would fall back to its original value after some time. This Skill could be called “Expert AA gunnery” [I stole that concept from someone, but I can’t remember from who :( ]. To be fair those skills or upgrades are quite unrealistic historically speaking. Although the idea of early Dreadnoughts duking it out with 1930s CV is not the closest to reality either. Dreadnoughts = WW1 battleships 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TORAZ] El2aZeR Beta Tester 15,569 posts 23,599 battles Report post #2 Posted March 12, 2021 A question you should ask yourself: Would a few machine guns or a bit more DPS really make a difference? 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[YEET] COPlUM Players 2,341 posts 7,013 battles Report post #3 Posted March 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, ManuelElMenthol said: I hope there is one thing we can all agree on: Dreadnoughts need an AA Buff. Low tier ships are CV food, which is why low tier games are like this, with one person and 11 bots : I actually don't agree with what you're saying, because all ships are CV food at low tier, not just battleships. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,003 posts 4,350 battles Report post #4 Posted March 12, 2021 If you are pining for a Dreadnought Turkey Shoot, Captain @ManuelElMenthol, sail out for a cruise in the HMS Orion. Her ability to make confetti out of tier IV carrier planes - the only ones she will ever encounter - is astounding bordering on the filthy. If you absolutely, definitely have to plug every mother[edited] plane of the Belle Époque, the Orion is the ship for you - accept no substitute! 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SUOLA] arttuperkunas Players 1,597 posts 8,735 battles Report post #5 Posted March 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Procrastes said: If you are pining for a Dreadnought Turkey Shoot, Captain @ManuelElMenthol, sail out for a cruise in the HMS Orion. Her ability to make confetti out of tier IV carrier planes - the only ones she will ever encounter - is astounding bordering on the filthy. If you absolutely, definitely have to plug every mother[edited] plane of the Belle Époque, the Orion is the ship for you - accept no substitute! The orion has (tolerable) AA. It doesn't mean that it doesn't get s*it on by carriers who are halfway competent, just that they pay a small price for it. I used to mainly play the Orion at T4, and it is very, very far from being a no fly zone, even against the kind of window licking CV drivers you see at that tier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 12,668 posts 10,074 battles Report post #6 Posted March 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Procrastes said: HMS Orion A truely balanced ship Its almost like it got soviet treatment 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SUOLA] arttuperkunas Players 1,597 posts 8,735 battles Report post #7 Posted March 12, 2021 Just now, DFens_666 said: A truely balanced ship Its almost like it got soviet treatment Didn't it use to be even better before? My impression is that it was nerfed from what it was in its glory days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 12,668 posts 10,074 battles Report post #8 Posted March 12, 2021 1 minute ago, arttuperkunas said: Didn't it use to be even better before? My impression is that it was nerfed from what it was in its glory days. yeah they nerfed the dispersion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,003 posts 4,350 battles Report post #9 Posted March 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said: Didn't it use to be even better before? My impression is that it was nerfed from what it was in its glory days. They nerfed some of her characteristics, I'm unsure which ones and how much. I think it had to do with the accuracy of her main guns, which used to be better. Whatever they did, she is still a damn strong ship - probably the best and most versatile battleship of her tier. Edited: DFens_666 beat me to the punch, but it seems I was right - it had to to with the dispersion. Thanks, Captain DFens! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[YEET] COPlUM Players 2,341 posts 7,013 battles Report post #10 Posted March 12, 2021 If you insist playing BBs at low tier and really hate planes, you can get USS Texas I guess, T5 premium. It's $5 or something because they gave it away for free for many years. Add the AA gunner skill and AA flags for 400 short range AA DPS and 400 midrange AA DPS, that's montana's continuous AA in short and midrange, at T5. Also use Auxiliary arm mod 1 to double the HP of your AA mounts, main guns are tanky as hell, they don't break, AA guns break easily, double their HP. If there's one low tier ship that can make average CV players piss off it's really that thing. The thing with texas is bad/average CVs their planes will evaporate, good CVs know what the USS Texas is and they won't come for you unless they have to. Either way, USS texas lets you play low tier BBs and while CVs can still spot you and take no damage, they can't attack you without their planes evaporating. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-RNR-] Maris_Piper Players 1,859 posts Report post #11 Posted March 12, 2021 Poor Orion with it's 72 second BS turret Traverse, it's AAA does look good I'll say that, buy nothing stops the strikes pure and simple, that's what all the shouting has been about, CV's Rule at all Tiers and there's all any of us can do about it. Just smile and hope they kill someone else next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[YEET] COPlUM Players 2,341 posts 7,013 battles Report post #12 Posted March 12, 2021 You can even bully CVs in texas, I parked mine next to two CVs once without shooting them, they didn't even bother to fly planes off the deck anymore, probably because they didn't want to give me 100 plane shot down ribbons after I bullied them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,003 posts 4,350 battles Report post #13 Posted March 12, 2021 I had forgotten about the USS Texas. Yeah, she's got some badass AA punch, that one. Unlike the Orion, though, she will run into tier VI CV:s as well - so the question is, which one of these ladies is the most consistent CV bane...? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #14 Posted March 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said: You can even bully CVs in texas, I parked mine next to two CVs once without shooting them, they didn't even bother to fly planes off the deck anymore, probably because they didn't want to give me 100 plane shot down ribbons after I bullied them. Imagine california AA at tier 5. Then gib it a barneh buff of 30%. Very sexy r.i.p planus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[_I_] Nibenay78 Players 2,483 posts 24,311 battles Report post #15 Posted March 12, 2021 Now since WG clearly stated they need CV population over a certain level regardless how it is done (making them more crap and unbalanced)... Maybe we all (since most here are kinda experienced..) should go play tier 4 all day long and see how player retention is... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[YEET] COPlUM Players 2,341 posts 7,013 battles Report post #16 Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Procrastes said: I had forgotten about the USS Texas. Yeah, she's got some badass AA punch, that one. Unlike the Orion, though, she will run into tier VI CV:s as well - so the question is, which one of these ladies is the most consistent CV bane...? Continuous AA damage on the texas is four times the Orion. It's not even close. Texas doesn't care about CVs. It's the last ship in the game that lets you pretty much ignore carriers, T4 or T6, doesn't matter, they get one drop and that's that. It's all short and medium range though, don't think you can provide cover for friendlies, but planes won't bother you, bad CVs will melt, good CVs will only strike you if you're the last ship alive. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[YEET] COPlUM Players 2,341 posts 7,013 battles Report post #17 Posted March 12, 2021 I mean just look at it, it's covered in AA mounts, where do the sailors even walk, there's no room on the deck, there's AA mounts on top of the main battery too. They're all squishy mounts though, HE spam breaks them easily so get the +100% HP mod in slot 1. I don't play it anymore because I don't like low tier but if I would play low tier, I would only play this thing, CVs only go for this if there's nothing else alive. I would not play any other low tier ship because every other low tier ship is CV food, your only purpose is target practice for the CV player, you play low tier for someone else's enjoyment, not in USS Texas. Protip : Div with a buddy in a T4 CV 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SUOLA] arttuperkunas Players 1,597 posts 8,735 battles Report post #18 Posted March 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said: Continuous AA damage on the texas is four times the Orion. It's not even close. Texas doesn't care about CVs. It's the last ship in the game that lets you pretty much ignore carriers, T4 or T6, doesn't matter, they get one drop and that's that. It's all short and medium range though, don't think you can provide cover for friendlies, but planes won't bother you, bad CVs will melt, good CVs will only strike you if you're the last ship alive. I've played the Texas quite a lot, and it is in fact one of the only ships I've bought with actual money. If one likes US standards, then it's definitely not a bad buy, given that it's basically a New York that has God tier short range AA and is ever so slightly slower. It's also pretty cheap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManuelElMenthol Players 9 posts 1,448 battles Report post #19 Posted March 12, 2021 Vor 2 Stunden, El2aZeR sagte: A question you should ask yourself: Would a few machine guns or a bit more DPS really make a difference? Well I guess it is bettter than nothing... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] Deckeru_Maiku Beta Tester 6,569 posts 23,851 battles Report post #20 Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, DFens_666 said: yeah they nerfed the dispersion not that did achieve any "nerfing" in the end... 3 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said: I've played the Texas quite a lot, and it is in fact one of the only ships I've bought with actual money. If one likes US standards, then it's definitely not a bad buy, given that it's basically a New York that has God tier short range AA and is ever so slightly slower. It's also pretty cheap. When playing my T6 CVs - purely for research reasons - crapping on Texas' as become a habit. Just let them simmer a bit in the HE oven and they are soon ready to be used as a nice snack. Especially the quite short AA range makes it easy to ignore them until the time is right... 2 minutes ago, ManuelElMenthol said: Well I guess it is bettter than nothing... Do You by any chance play CVs yourself? Cause that usually helps a lot with measuring the influence AA at T4 has on CVs... which is ~zero (with very few exceptions) How to division at T4 properly? My guess would be a combo of Orion, Yubari (heavily nerfed, but still nasty AA and that Lazer-DD destroying guns) and for the rest a Isokaze (aka Baby-Kamikaze...) If You need a trendy name for that division I'd tell it "Sealclubbers Finest" or something like that... Unless You meet a real Unicorn Hosho - which probably is a quite low chance - You'd probably be able to crap all over most CVs the MM will be able to throw at you... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THESO] BoomerSmasher Players 9,778 posts 51,198 battles Report post #21 Posted March 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said: Protip : Div with a buddy in a T4 CV To end up in T7 game with Hosho.... lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NTT] arquata2019 [NTT] Players 2,198 posts 13,549 battles Report post #22 Posted March 12, 2021 1 minuto fa, Deckeru_Maiku ha scritto: Yubari (heavily nerfed, but still nasty AA not at all, tried it on my own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[YEET] COPlUM Players 2,341 posts 7,013 battles Report post #23 Posted March 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, ManuelElMenthol said: Well I guess it is bettter than nothing... You asked for low tier dreadnoughts with good AA, the last ship in the game that melts planes just so happens to be a dreadnought and it's $5. All the other ships in the game haven't been shooting down planes since many years at this point. The only reason USS texas "is allowed" to have this good AA is because the efficiency of AA was halfed for all ships a long time ago, thing is, Texas AA was so disgusting, even reducing it in half was not enough to stop it shredding weegee's beloved planes. And they couldn't reduce Texas's AA by more because premium. Texas is and always will be the exception to the sacred rule "Thou shallt not destroy airplanes" I can't be bothered to play a round and record it but here look You thought they swapped texas for warspite as the free ship for new players to give you a better ship? No. They swapped it because Texas kills planes, it was breaking the sacred rule thou shallt not destroy plane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] Deckeru_Maiku Beta Tester 6,569 posts 23,851 battles Report post #24 Posted March 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, arquata2019 said: not at all, tried it on my own. well, then Your Yubari is kaput... mine is still melting planes... not that it would help in the end, but still... gives CVs to think about... And sure there are a few that won't be bothered by a Yubari. But 90% of T4 Cv players are potatoes... they can crap newbies and potatoes, especially in BBs.. but when confronted with a slighty tougher target they usually go looking for more easy prey. Which is true for the higher tiers, too... Noneteless CVs are basically OP... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NTT] arquata2019 [NTT] Players 2,198 posts 13,549 battles Report post #25 Posted March 12, 2021 2 minuti fa, Deckeru_Maiku ha scritto: well, then Your Yubari is kaput... mine is still melting planes... not that it would help in the end, but still... gives CVs to think about... And sure there are a few that won't be bothered by a Yubari. But 90% of T4 Cv players are potatoes... they can crap newbies and potatoes, especially in BBs.. but when confronted with a slighty tougher target they usually go looking for more easy prey. Which is true for the higher tiers, too... Noneteless CVs are basically OP... apart from last line that they're balans, well, that makes sense, but mine doesn't shoot down as many planes as your then, i tried it against t4 cvs... do you spec it for AA? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
