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leonport

Lets face it you have no reason to play siegfried after 0.10.0

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Seriously whats the point of playing siegfried after 0.10.0?

The only thing why people would by the siegfried was its secondaries but 0.10.0 removed the ability to build into them

So you are left with a TOTALLY OVERPRICED super cruiser that has 6bb guns that can't overmatch any major threshold like 27mm with very bad ap dpm and non existent he dpm,good pen for a cruiser but bad for a bb and cruiser accuracy.Survivability is again good for a cruiser but its still lackluster compared to alaska, stalingrad or petro that all have un overmatchable deck armor and the petro have ice breaker to prevent citadels nose in which siegfried lacks again.

 

petro has the same role as siegfried but it performs it way better AND FOR ONLY RESEARCHING 1 TECH TREE.

 

If you aren't a german fanboy or just like how this ship looks a lot you have 0 reason to get the siegfried as it offers nothing new or intresting or powerfull.

 

If you want a ship thats very similar to siegfried go grind petro that has the same role as siegfried but its way better in it.

 

This ship was actually among the few research bureau ships i was intrested in grinding because it had its meme secondary that was very unique,but after 0.10.0 its gone and you left with a mediocre cruiser at tier 9 for a ridiculus price of about reseting 5-2,5 lines(depends on if you wait for the 2x bonus points)

 

So if you like re-grinding lines to get a mediocre super cruiser feel free to do it, for all of you other don't waste your time on siegfried and if you want a ship with similar playstyle go play petro.

 

also here is the penetration chart compared to the russian super cruisers:

1530625875_petrowowsvssiegfried.thumb.png.1ed9af11adc999a58308008f13336b9a.png

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48 minutes ago, leonport said:

also here is the penetration chart mpared to the russian super cruisers:

1530625875_petrowowsvssiegfried.thumb.png.1ed9af11adc999a58308008f13336b9a.png

 

Why are you comparing it to T10 ships? Why not compare it to T9 ships instead as those are Siegfried direct opponents

 

1754854494_Screenshotfrom2021-03-1113-28-37.thumb.png.650de534e7c32224207b24fd23885e23.png

 

So its pen is only comparable to Krony's one, better than Alaska or Riga. Keep in mind that I'm only comparing the AP shell pens not the whole stats so I'm not saying that due pen Siegried is good or anything like it.  

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Personally I still Like Siegfried and Honestly I never got it for the secondary guns they never really interested me as for why you would play it you can say that about many ships, perhaps for a bit of variety and considering you get 6 15 inch guns with very good dispersion in a cruiser slot can be quite fun to use against some cruisers.

 

She does look good I have to say that but I can not say that the only good bit of Siegfried was her secondary guns as her armour is decent enough I would argue those accurate 15 inch guns are the reason you get Siegfried and in a cruiser slot as well can be quite potent sure it does not get radar like Alaska but she still has reasons to be played, though I can see how 2 Line reset with the 2x bonus and the 10K starting points can be a pain Personally i would have preferred her as coal or Free XP but I guess you can just use Line resets as slightly more expensive Free XP ships.

 

As for the Russian ships honestly I have little to say about them I do not have them but from those I talk to it is well known that the Russian ships have some pretty silly things at times.

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mb:

- dispersion

- pen

- reload

 

armor:

that one, aye!

 

... if u only got it for secs, u by far left her most outstanding strenghtes out imho. essentially, i like it a lot still (though not have too many runs yet). it's a logical shift from t7 gneis, even in being a cruiser. and a quite tanky one, just as ägir, in my experience.

only pay2rico feels more forgiving.

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There are 6 reasons to play Siggy, and every single one has a 380mm caliber. The main battery has insane accuracy for BB caliber guns.

Hell, you can still put in the secondary module for the memes. With the signal you'll get 10km range.

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Il y a 2 heures, leonport a dit :

Seriously whats the point of playing siegfried after 0.10.0?

The only thing why people would by the siegfried was its secondaries but 0.10.0 removed the ability to build into them

 

What ?:cap_wander:

Siegfried is more a mid range cruiser than a brawler.

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18 minutes ago, Malim0o said:

What ?:cap_wander:

Siegfried is more a mid range cruiser than a brawler.

True.

I used to take aggressive positions around mountains knowing my hydro and secondary combination would afford some kind of a threat to destroyers thinking of ambushing me. Unfortunately the main  guns are very poor at dealing with destroyers So you cannot do that so much anymore.

 

I found the secondary build to be fun, I expect most enjoyed it for the fun element than for it being hugely effective. That is unfortunately no longer possible.

 

The guns are good against broadside battleships and slightly angled cruisers but are poor against angled targets and have limited overmatch.

 

It's still effective to some extent but it now has no answer for an angled target. Before an angled battleship would chase you and you would slowly melt him with secondaries.

 

OP's question is about why one would buy a Siegfried over another ship, an Alaska for example. Secondary memes were the reason, the main guns are not.

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40 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

OP's question is about why one would buy a Siegfried over another ship, an Alaska for example. Secondary memes were the reason, the main guns are not.

 

image.thumb.png.32c28411e54fdb15eb69c68afebee37f.png

 

If you want high penetration and a low impact angle, your only alternative at T9 would have been the Kronshtadt, which is not even available anymore.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MrWastee said:

mb:

- dispersion

- pen

- reload

 

armor:

that one, aye!

 

... if u only got it for secs, u by far left her most outstanding strenghtes out imho. essentially, i like it a lot still (though not have too many runs yet). it's a logical shift from t7 gneis, even in being a cruiser. and a quite tanky one, just as ägir, in my experience.

only pay2rico feels more forgiving.

Can't say anything about Aegir and Siegfried,  never really played them.

 

However,  you are right about Puerto Rico. It's tanky as a BB and the guns are nice.

Sadly, the ship lost its appeal for me ever since people stopped focusing it hard.

 

It was my go-to ship to farm potential damage just by announcing how easy it was to get, without yoloing. ^^

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Can't say anything about Aegir and Siegfried,  never really played them.

 

However,  you are right about Puerto Rico. It's tanky as a BB and the guns are nice.

Sadly, the ship lost its appeal for me ever since people stopped focusing it hard.

 

It was my go-to ship to farm potential damage just by announcing how easy it was to get, without yoloing. ^^

 

 

17 on siegfried, 74 on ägir here. both in the greens at least i gotta say this: turning out in these ships kinda always is a thrill like only p2r can give one lol. u think like "oh sheeeeet, that's been it!!1!!1!1"... only to lose like a few hp, within like a 4 figure number.

this impression really sticked to me. ofc it's not a good idea to spent allmatch broad now lol ^^....

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it was one of my fave ships now its a huge bait and switch a reminder to never trust or buy anything as these guys will just delete things on a whim , been asking support and on the streams for some comment / update just get ignored week after week. 

 

 

 

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Because you can sneak genuine BB guns into a match and take up a cruiser slot.

 

Also this :

5 hours ago, fumtu said:

Why are you comparing it to T10 ships? Why not compare it to T9 ships instead as those are Siegfried direct opponents

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1 hour ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Because you can sneak genuine BB guns into a match and take up a cruiser slot.

 

Also this :

siegfried guns suck they can't overmatch any bow besides light cruisers and they have bad ap dpm and bad pen compared to other bb guns besides cruiser accuracy and meh pen there is nothing redeeming in them

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15 minutes ago, leonport said:

siegfried guns suck they can't overmatch any bow besides light cruisers

 

So i guess IJN, French, Italian and UK CAs are not heavy Cruisers? Heck you can even overmatch russian CAs upper bow like any other BB can.

The only thing you cant overmatch is German and US CA armor.

 

20 minutes ago, leonport said:

bad pen compared to other bb guns

 

Still enough pen to citadel BBs. Unlike most other Cruisers which are not russian :Smile_unsure:

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No worries comrade. Napoli will be your cup of tea. SAP secondaries.

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15 hours ago, Malim0o said:

What ?:cap_wander:

Siegfried is more a mid range cruiser than a brawler.

Indeed, everyone know that secondary siegfried was a meme build. But definitely a funny one. I bought Siegfried for this, knowing it was not optimal, but for the fun. Now we have another long range sniper, and like OP said there are other ships to fulfill that role already.

 

15 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Hell, you can still put in the secondary module for the memes. With the signal you'll get 10km range.

It's still a range nerf compared to before 0.10.0 and why having long range anyway? Acccuracy is so bad now that your secondaries won't hit anything. 

Siegfried is not fun anymore.

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12 hours ago, leonport said:

siegfried guns suck they can't overmatch any bow besides light cruisers and they have bad ap dpm and bad pen compared to other bb guns besides cruiser accuracy and meh pen there is nothing redeeming in them

They *are* bb guns and they overmatch bow/stern of all cruisers that aren't US/KM. Also overmatch light cruisers entire ship.

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Hey guys, is Siegfried worth taking? I have Agir, Alaska and Yoshino, kinda like all of them. Right now I am deciding between Siegfried and Ohio.

Is Siegfried unique among other supercruisers? I like the bigger guns, but not sure if it is a step up from Agir or Alaska.
I want also Ohio as a pinnacle of Massa and Georgia class, but after capt rework, i am not sure if Ohio is as good as it was.

Any recommendations?

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12 minutes ago, colonel_duce said:

Hey guys, is Siegfried worth taking? I have Agir, Alaska and Yoshino, kinda like all of them. Right now I am deciding between Siegfried and Ohio.
Is Siegfried unique among other supercruisers? I like the bigger guns, but not sure if it is a step up from Agir or Alaska.
I want also Ohio as a pinnacle of Massa and Georgia class, but after capt rework, i am not sure if Ohio is as good as it was.
Any recommendations?

Ohio gets burned to death from 27km by thunderer -which should have never made it into the game in that state and is the dumbest thing to have made it into the game in five years, including carriers-

But every BB suffers from 27km Thunderer HE spam, it's not unique to Ohio in any way, it got worse since the rework for everyone, not just Ohio.

Ohio is powerful and fun, it does reasonably well in games where you can't push -because thunderer won't let anyone push-

It does very well in games where you can push -for obvious reasons-
A very nice way to play it is go on the weak flank and hold off a big push, I haven't experienced any BB ship that can delay an enemy push this well, maybe Kremlin.

Siegfried is unique because it's the only ship that lets you sneak true battleship guns into a match taking up a cruiser slot but I wouldn't say it's better than Alaska, 380mm vs 305mm obviously means you're going to get bigger hits when you hit, but you'll also see more overpens than with alaska, more bounces because no improved pen angles and honestly getting the occasional citadel hit for 11K, Alaska doesn't even need that, you get so many regular pens with alaska you slap for 11K too, and you can do it reliably. Alaska doesn't need a citadel hit to slap just as hard.

I'd go with Ohio over siegfried, especially if you already have Agir and Alaska for T9 supercruisers.

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Ohio over Siegfried now.

 

Siegfried is no longer an interesting ship and Alaska is better in most situations. I might even say Agir is better now.

 

Ohio is one of the best battleships in the game. 

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On 3/11/2021 at 12:38 PM, leonport said:

Seriously whats the point of playing siegfried after 0.10.0?

The only thing why people would by the siegfried was its secondaries but 0.10.0 removed the ability to build into them

So you are left with a TOTALLY OVERPRICED super cruiser that has 6bb guns that can't overmatch any major threshold like 27mm with very bad ap dpm and non existent he dpm,good pen for a cruiser but bad for a bb and cruiser accuracy.Survivability is again good for a cruiser but its still lackluster compared to alaska, stalingrad or petro that all have un overmatchable deck armor and the petro have ice breaker to prevent citadels nose in which siegfried lacks again.

 

petro has the same role as siegfried but it performs it way better AND FOR ONLY RESEARCHING 1 TECH TREE.

 

If you aren't a german fanboy or just like how this ship looks a lot you have 0 reason to get the siegfried as it offers nothing new or intresting or powerfull.

 

If you want a ship thats very similar to siegfried go grind petro that has the same role as siegfried but its way better in it.

 

This ship was actually among the few research bureau ships i was intrested in grinding because it had its meme secondary that was very unique,but after 0.10.0 its gone and you left with a mediocre cruiser at tier 9 for a ridiculus price of about reseting 5-2,5 lines(depends on if you wait for the 2x bonus points)

 

So if you like re-grinding lines to get a mediocre super cruiser feel free to do it, for all of you other don't waste your time on siegfried and if you want a ship with similar playstyle go play petro.

 

also here is the penetration chart compared to the russian super cruisers:

1530625875_petrowowsvssiegfried.thumb.png.1ed9af11adc999a58308008f13336b9a.png

 

lol

I mean. I like the Siegfried. So I certainly would Encourage Buffing it *gg*

 

But Frankly said. Right now I see no real Need for any bigger Buff.

I do think that both Siegfried and Ägir should get the 50mm Icebreaker on the Bow. Because thats a German Gimmick and somehow it makes no sense for them to not have it.

But thats about the only Buff I can think off that would make sense.

 

Siegfried is Performing extremely Good currently.

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/3761157936,Siegfried/

 

This is of course also related to the Fact that its a RP Ship.

But I see literally no Chance in Hell that you will get Wargaming to Buff it.

 

 

 

Now for the actual Post.

 

1.

Wuuut ?

No Major Threshold ?

Since when is 25mm which is the Plating for the Majority of Cruisers. No Major Threshold ???

Moreover. Siegfried has the Pen to actually reach the Citadel of most Cruisers when Punching through their Nose.

 

2.

That Fact that your mostly Comparing it with T10 Cruisers should Frankly said tell you Something.

Because these BB Guns do have a Range of Advantages.

 

A. 21km Base Range.

B. 26mm Overmatch.

C. Very High Penetration for a Cruiser.

D. Very Good Gun Ballistics.

E. Extremely Good Accuracy. In Fact the Highest Accuracy out of all T9 Supercruisers.

 

3.

There is also other Advantages.

Siegfried also comes with 90mm Upper Belt Armor. Which allows it to Bait Side Armor Shots from even the Biggest Battleships.

It comes with a Decently Protected Citadel which while not as Impenetrable as German BBs. Is pretty hard to Pen.

It is together with its Sistership Ägir the only T9 Supercruiser Class with Torpedoes.

Also like its Sistership it gets the 6km German Hydro due to which these 2 are the only of the T9 Supercruisers that can go for a Brawl when the Situation requires it.

The Secondary Battery after the Rework might no longer be Topnotch. But it is still usable with its 8km Baserange. And does Serve as additional DPM in a Brawl.

Its Concealment can be Pushed down to 12km Which is Pretty Decent for a Supercruiser actually.

It gets a Spotter/Fighter Plane as an small Extra.

 

Beyond that its other abilities might not be the Best but they are not Bad either.

Its got enough HP for a T9 Supercruiser. Its got Decent AA for a T9 Supercruiser. Its Speed and Maneuverability are also comparable to other Supercruisers.

Thanks to German HE Pen its HE Shells Pen 95mm of Armor. Which also means you get the Added Bonus of being able to Citadel Smolensk with HE allowing You to be one of the Few Ships in the Game that can hit its Citadel very Reliably.

 

4.

Not sure how you eneded up Comparing this to Petro.

Which is a T10 Ship so 1 Tier Higher than Siegfried.

Which has way worse Accuracy for its Guns. Has way weaker Guns which have a much smaller Caliber and thus cant even Overmatch Destroyers.

Which has less HP than Siegfried. Can be Overmatched by Siegfrieds Guns and Is far less Maneuverable than Siegfried.

Has less Baserange and worse Concealment than Siegfried.

And also has no Torps to go into a Brawl when Needed.

 

 

 

 

I Mean. Dont get me Wrong.

I dont consider Siegfried OP or anything.

But its Clearly not Weak lol.

 

 

 

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I got the Siegfried two days ago. So far it is a refreshing ship, which is a lot more than I can say for most of the ships I have seen lately.

To me the design makes a lot of sense in the current meta and definitely has not lost its purpose with release of update 0.10.0. Most cruisers lack range at T9. It forces them to play closer to the enemy fleet than is good for them in the opening salvos. Cruisers get focussed early on, because they are easy targets. The Dead-Eye meta has driven away many cruiser players because of that.

 

The secondaries are not as good as before. That is probably not a bad thing. The secondary build is just a meme build, not very efficient. It persuades a player to play foolishly close and lose his ship over a couple of secondary hits. That doesn't mean you should stay at range, but have the patience to wait for the right moment.

 

The Siegfried has what it needs to do that, cause it gets BB guns, no strings attached. It gets more than 20km base range with pretty good ballistics. The dispersion is extremely good, not quite as good as Stalingrad, but Stalingrad is T10 and a class of its own. Siegfried has less dispersion as Stalingrad at the same range, but a smaller sigma value. The hit ratio is comparable. And these are 380mm shells with good pen. You can citadel targets at max range.

You tend to overpen cruisers, but this is frankly a matter of timing and judgement. In Ägir you try to hit a cruiser flat broadside. In Siegfried your window is when the cruiser turns and is still a bit angled and again when he going from flat broadside back into angling. Then you don't overpen. I'd even say it is much easier to catch a cruiser in that state than flat broadside. On the other hand Ägir gets shatters on BBs, when Siegfried still pens. That makes all the difference. On paper Ägir should be the better ship cause it has way more raw dpm. But that is all for nothing if (a) the shells shatter and (b) dispersion sprays your shells all over the place.

 

9 hours ago, colonel_duce said:

Hey guys, is Siegfried worth taking? I have Agir, Alaska and Yoshino, kinda like all of them. Right now I am deciding between Siegfried and Ohio.

Is Siegfried unique among other supercruisers? I like the bigger guns, but not sure if it is a step up from Agir or Alaska.
I want also Ohio as a pinnacle of Massa and Georgia class, but after capt rework, i am not sure if Ohio is as good as it was.

Any recommendations?

 

Ohio would still be my first pick. It is a nice jack of all trades. It is accurate at range, it has brawling power, it has survivability. It is the ship of a good BB player, designed to put your foot on the ground and signal to your enemy: "This part of the map is mine. Come and take it, I dare you."

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On 3/11/2021 at 5:49 PM, MrWastee said:

17 on siegfried, 74 on ägir here. both in the greens at least i gotta say this: turning out in these ships kinda always is a thrill like only p2r can give one lol. u think like "oh sheeeeet, that's been it!!1!!1!1"... only to lose like a few hp, within like a 4 figure number.

this impression really sticked to me. ofc it's not a good idea to spent allmatch broad now lol ^^....

Yup, Ägir is my go-to-ship in Ranked now and I played it in the 3x3 exclusivly. You can do some insane stuff. Many times I think "dude, you are overextending, you cant do that" and then I hear my ship yell back at me "HOLD MY BEER" :cap_haloween:

 

7 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I got the Siegfried two days ago. So far it is a refreshing ship, which is a lot more than I can say for most of the ships I have seen lately.

 

Indeed. You can do things, which you cant do in most other ships. Perfect, thats how it should be. So everyone, leave those ships alone, because there are people around, that like them as they are. There are other ships around for people like you, just get them and play them, instead of trying to shoe-horn every ship into the same box.

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