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RevelAndQuaff

iChase you felt a need to respond to Flamuu, as do I to you

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First things first, I’m not a Flamuu fan. Over the past 2 years he’s become toxic and elitist. I unsub’ed him some time ago.

iChase, sry you’re wrong, it’s nothing to do with game complexity with WG trying to keep it simply for the gamer. The game is based around very complex ballistics and armour layout, not to mention the silly mathematics in the game, knowing this makes the difference between good and bad players. WG, keeps changing the rules on the player base, and we have to keep up, Dead Eye is the perfect recent example of this, this single skill has changed the entire dynamic of the game and turned players in to cowards, or SAP, devastating volleys regardless of angle. Then there is the perception, by me and many other players I know, that the outcome of a game is predetermined, you’re either on the winning team or losing team and the perception is THERE’S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

WG do think the player base are idiots, they are constantly screwing the player out of more and more money. I saw a recent YT video from Flambass, he spent 200 euro’s (in doubloons) purchasing 41 bundles to get a (soon to be) T9 line ship, not even a premium. That’s three times the normal price of a T9 premium. Confirmed, WG think the player base are idiots, why? Because there are some players (arguably idiots) who will spend that money. Why do you think WG, invest so much effort in recruitment of new players? New players do not realise what they are doing, find the grind (especially these days) significant and buy a ship. Veterans like me, don’t need to buy a ship any more, not with 230 ships in port. This RNG is gambling but worst, you see WG (and every other gaming company) don’t publish the odds. It’s like going to a bookmaker, put 10 Euros on a horse, without ever knowing the odds, just if you win you get some in game thing, then again its worst still you see… what you win has absolutely no value outside of the game. It’s a gambling fix for some people.

What about the Black Fleet scam. This is the equivalent of going to car dealership and seeing to two cars (Exactly) the same, but one has a really-cool paint job. The price package says “buy this car” and get 30% cash back. So you buy the car and then find out that you can only get the cash back if you buy the other (Exact) car and drive it around for a while. If a real dealership actually attempted this, the resulting lawsuit would be catastrophic for the dealership’s brand, it would be excoriated.

Now let’s get to CVs in WoWS.  I’m a DD player, if a CV (regardless of the ship, tier or class) picks on you and wants your ship dead, you are dead. No ifs, no buts…. YOU ARE DEAD.  No other class of ship can do this. I play all classes of ship including CV, I play CV’s to understand their play-style and learn how to counter it. It’s a simply KNOW YOUR ENEMY thing. For me though, CV play is boring, it’s been dumbed down too much, in fact an idiot can play it. Were back to idiots again, WG’s favourite type of player.

Flamuu is not bias towards CV because he’s a surface ship player. He knows, just like every other player, there is very little you can do about CVs because they can do anything, go anywhere and at any time, with no counter to them in many cases. No other class can do this.  It’s not as simple as saying, all the power has gone to CVs, no not correct.  What has happened is, all the power has gone from every other class of ship. There is a difference, a big difference.

 

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Flamu is bias against CVs both post rework and pre rework. In fact he can be said to have contributed to the CV rework propegating his biasness pre rework so yeah.

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Cannot say I have ever seen iChase on the EU forum, probably your best bet would be to leave your comment on the actual video for him to read.

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10 minutes ago, RevelAndQuaff said:

First things first, I’m not a Flamuu fan. Over the past 2 years he’s become toxic and elitist. I unsub’ed him some time ago.

 

iChase, sry you’re wrong, it’s nothing to do with game complexity with WG trying to keep it simply for the gamer. The game is based around very complex ballistics and armour layout, not to mention the silly mathematics in the game, knowing this makes the difference between good and bad players. WG, keeps changing the rules on the player base, and we have to keep up, Dead Eye is the perfect recent example of this, this single skill has changed the entire dynamic of the game and turned players in to cowards, or SAP, devastating volleys regardless of angle. Then there is the perception, by me and many other players I know, that the outcome of a game is predetermined, you’re either on the winning team or losing team and the perception is THERE’S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

 

WG do think the player base are idiots, they are constantly screwing the player out of more and more money. I saw a recent YT video from Flambass, he spent 200 euro’s (in doubloons) purchasing 41 bundles to get a (soon to be) T9 line ship, not even a premium. That’s three times the normal price of a T9 premium. Confirmed, WG think the player base are idiots, why? Because there are some players (arguably idiots) who will spend that money. Why do you think WG, invest so much effort in recruitment of new players? New players do not realise what they are doing, find the grind (especially these days) significant and buy a ship. Veterans like me, don’t need to buy a ship any more, not with 230 ships in port. This RNG is gambling but worst, you see WG (and every other gaming company) don’t publish the odds. It’s like going to a bookmaker, put 10 Euros on a horse, without ever knowing the odds, just if you win you get some in game thing, then again its worst still you see… what you win has absolutely no value outside of the game. It’s a gambling fix for some people.

 

What about the Black Fleet scam. This is the equivalent of going to car dealership and seeing to two cars (Exactly) the same, but one has a really-cool paint job. The price package says “buy this car” and get 30% cash back. So you buy the car and then find out that you can only get the cash back if you buy the other (Exact) car and drive it around for a while. If a real dealership actually attempted this, the resulting lawsuit would be catastrophic for the dealership’s brand, it would be excoriated.

 

Now let’s get to CVs in WoWS.  I’m a DD player, if a CV (regardless of the ship, tier or class) picks on you and wants your ship dead, you are dead. No ifs, no buts…. YOU ARE DEAD.  No other class of ship can do this. I play all classes of ship including CV, I play CV’s to understand their play-style and learn how to counter it. It’s a simply KNOW YOUR ENEMY thing. For me though, CV play is boring, it’s been dumbed down too much, in fact an idiot can play it. Were back to idiots again, WG’s favourite type of player.

 

Flamuu is not bias towards CV because he’s a surface ship player. He knows, just like every other player, there is very little you can do about CVs because they can do anything, go anywhere and at any time, with no counter to them in many cases. No other class can do this.  It’s not as simple as saying, all the power has gone to CVs, no not correct.  What has happened is, all the power has gone from every other class of ship. There is a difference, a big difference.

  • the game is not complex, when shooting at the enemy you just need to know if you should use HE or AP, that is all
  • Dead Eye did not change the playerbase into cowards, they were cowards before, we have 5+ years worth of threads complaining about camping BB...
  • if battle results were predertermined, skill would not matter, the fact is that we have 40% and 70% winrate players in the game and therefore players make the difference
  • nobody is forced to spend 200€ on a Tech Tree ship, that is a players decision
  • that is not how the B ships work
  • when CV sink your DD most of the time, you are doing it wrong, there are only a few CV players who are really dangerous to DD, the rest has trouble hitting a BB, let alone a small agile DD
  • you write a lot, but not much about the video you are responding too...
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12 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Flamu is bias against CVs both post rework and pre rework. In fact he can be said to have contributed to the CV rework propegating his biasness pre rework so yeah.

Remember Flamu how he said "secondary builds are for noobs only cause AI is doing dmg for you"? well.... 

 

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15 minutes ago, RevelAndQuaff said:

Then there is the perception, by me and many other players I know, that the outcome of a game is predetermined, you’re either on the winning team or losing team and the perception is THERE’S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

That is the difference between a good player and a bad player: Bad players will claim its predetermined. Good players will say "there is always a chance". Just go take a look in the matchmaking thread. All those players complaining are either bad or mediocre players.

But this mindset is exactly why ive been avoiding randoms. So many players either dont know that a match isnt lost when you lose 1 ship or they dont know how fast a match can flip. They just complain in chat instead of focussing on atleast trying to win.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Flamu is bias against CVs both post rework and pre rework. In fact he can be said to have contributed to the CV rework propegating his biasness pre rework so yeah.

Well 95 percent of the people are against cvs because there overall impact is too high and as soon as you are the target of the cv and your AUTOMATED defense is bad you are fucked while against other ships you have it always a little in your own hands. So i suggest you should start to think from a neutral point instead of be a pro cv fanboy. 

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if you use your air concealment wisely, average CV player will will struggle to to even hit you, let alone kill you.

i have reset IJN DD lines like 15+ times for the RB and it is comical how much time most CVs take to actually hurt me, and when i see that red CV keeps coming back i make sure the odds are as unfavorable against him as possible. There is little variety in CV attacks and not that hard to learn the attack/crop patterns and how to mitigate them, but i guess it is easier to join the anti-CV crusade and pretend that CVs are gods

Statement that any "CV can kill anyone he wants" is true, but most CV players would require 60 minutes and stationary target to do so.

 

now, you have 4000 games in shima and asashio alone, normally i would expect that when you play one ship that long, you would know all the tricks, but shima mains are... special.

Also, possible to explain, considering you have few hundred games even in T10 CVs like Midway and Haku, how you managed to perform that poorly in them, despite being them OP and broken?

 

8 minutes ago, Kampfbaer_777 said:

Well 95 percent of the people are against cvs 

 

source?

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I just don't understand the people who can put up with Flamu's constant whining and drama. It's make believe internet boats and he takes it more seriously than the war in Yemen.

My niece who is 3 years old has a more dignified behaviour and whines way less.

 

Also maybe I am too old to understand but what is the point of watching other people play a game, instead of playing it yourself? This goes for almost every CC, whose recommendations are usually wrong and/or bad. Hey, let me show you this one game where the enemy is doing nothing useful to prove how this ship isn't underpowered! Or the contrary. Anyway, who cares. Smoke weed.

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Is there a video we could see? I feel too lazy to go look for it myself?

 

I've ordered some more popcorn in case... :Smile_popcorn:

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On 3/6/2021 at 1:27 PM, Kampfbaer_777 said:

Well 95 percent of the people are against cvs because there overall impact is too high and as soon as you are the target of the cv and your AUTOMATED defense is bad you are fucked while against other ships you have it always a little in your own hands. So i suggest you should start to think from a neutral point instead of be a pro cv fanboy. 

Look you flamu fanboy and anti-cv edited*, I barely even played CV after the rework (less then 20 games played in CV?) and even then, I never had an issue dealing with CVs attacking me (well both pre and post rework. Is it really that tough lol or are people just incapable i wonder). If the CV killed me then yeah, the player outplayed me because I know that I've done my best making it a living hell for him to attack me.

 

Unlike flamu, you or other players like you, I don't expect to farm damage every round and not be damaged at all. The fact that you are so against CV already shows that you aren't neutral at all, because everything is the CV's fault whereas for me, I just deal with whatever is attacking me accordingly, be it in a cruiser against a BB or in a BB against a DD. Sure, the other side may have some advantage against me but its not like I can't deal with it either. So i SUGGEST that you yourself consider it from an ACUTAL NEUTRAL point of view instead of whining.

 

edit: language please*

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25 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Remember Flamu how he said "secondary builds are for noobs only cause AI is doing dmg for you"? well.... 

 

Ehhhhh meaning :Smile_hiding:

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4 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Ehhhhh meaning :Smile_hiding:

Also Agir that was going to be fun with secondaries, Flamu used it to abuse them totally and WG nerfed them to the ground.... I think he has also some kind of influence on some things that are done in the game...

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1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

That is the difference between a good player and a bad player: Bad players will claim its predetermined. Good players will say "there is always a chance".

2 hours ago, RevelAndQuaff said:

Then there is the perception, by me and many other players I know, that the outcome of a game is predetermined, you’re either on the winning team or losing team and the perception is THERE’S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. 

 

99% of the playerbase would have probably yoloed in this game because " MM RIGGED; LOSS WAS SCRPITED FROM THE START!!!111"

 

4 Mins into the game

image.thumb.png.001161966e1ee3db3abbdf8b5f33800e.png

 

Less than 3 minutes later, we lost 4 ships. DM just yoloed (well he was already completely overextended in the screenshot above. Kleber just waited for the inevitable, Smolensk sat too long in smoke, once smoke was over *Blapp*. No idea how the Stalingrad could die over there:cap_fainting:

image.thumb.png.d24a7e864419509ca6705b00addaf8f3.png

 

10 minutes into the game, we are basicly completely pushed into the corner. Enemies make a crucial mistake here, by splitting up. Gearing overextends and gets killed, Mino and Petro go broadside into B. GK also overextends

image.thumb.png.ffa49c3ba1d0f5ef541b95d24cb44000.png

 

15 minutes in, now the enemy CV managed to overextend after we almost killed everything else. ofc our Daring suicided at C into the Yamato. We are also heavily behind on points, because enemies hold more caps than we did, so we get all caps, enemy Hinden suicides, FDR and PR die at A. Yamato and Venezia just hide to survive, CV kills them both eventually.

There was 1 other good player on our team - the Plymouth, who managed to stay alive and deal damage on his flank. Meanwhile, we had like 5 ships who just died for nothing. And it still wasnt lost, it was possible to get back on track and turn the game. The problem is, good players need time to turn a game. But if more people decide to suicide because "ItS LoSt" then they are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, which they caused themselves by suiciding.

image.thumb.png.080fc38f5579189097d9eeae4f85b3de.png

image.png.1fd12e451c85a6e0d97e5f6975325b38.png

(in case someone claims that it was a loss)

 

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Video on how to deal with CV

I change from all the whining and crying :fish_panic:from some CC

 

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17 minutes ago, Cippalippus said:

Anyway, who cares. Smoke weed.

 

At last, someone with some sense around here <3

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24 minutes ago, Cippalippus said:

I just don't understand the people who can put up with Flamu's constant whining and drama. It's make believe internet boats and he takes it more seriously than the war in Yemen.

My niece who is 3 years old has a more dignified behaviour and whines way less.

 

Also maybe I am too old to understand but what is the point of watching other people play a game, instead of playing it yourself? This goes for almost every CC, whose recommendations are usually wrong and/or bad. Hey, let me show you this one game where the enemy is doing nothing useful to prove how this ship isn't underpowered! Or the contrary. Anyway, who cares. Smoke weed.

Maybe I can help you understand some of the motivation to watch players like Flamu and Flambass, not being a fanboi of either of them, but watching their videos regularly.

 

Flamu, aside his abusive mouth, has good understanding of the game mechanics. He has helped me develop my preferred playstyle, because I myself can't be bothered to dive deep into the numbers, memorize the armor and gun caliber interactions etc. I'm a generalist: I just want to play and get better at the game but not study the game in depth. Watching knowledgable people play helps me cherrypick what I want out of the game.

 

CC's that position themselves as an extention of WG's marketing efforts do not interest me. Im not looking for more advertising, I'm looking for insight.

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51 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

there are only a few CV players who are really dangerous to DD, the rest has trouble hitting a BB, let alone a small agile DD

lmfao

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1 minute ago, Starchy_Tuber said:

lmfao

So you consider the playerbase to be competent? Interesting...

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2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

So you consider the playerbase to be competent? Interesting...

Just enjoying you proving the CV rework was an abject failure by stating there is a huge skill gap between good and bad CV players, thereby backing up Flamus' claim. 

hence;  lmfao.

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1 minute ago, Starchy_Tuber said:

Just enjoying you proving the CV rework was an abject failure by stating there is a huge skill gap between good and bad CV players, thereby backing up Flamus' claim. 

hence;  lmfao.

I did not claim the opposite. And we have a huge skill gap in the whole game...

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So now the question is this thread going to become a pro vs anti Flamu discussion, or a pro vs anti CV discussion. 

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