Current secondary builds are useless - Need rework

[Mydgard]

Dear WG!

 

It is totally clear current secondary meta what you brought to the game worth nothing, it became more worthless as it was before. Best example the Grosser Kurfürst the top secondary ship.

- basically bad main gun towers shoting angles

- burn as Reichstag

- main guns are still inaccurate as hell

- shortest long range between T10s BBs

- remove survivability skills for a total useless secondary skills?

 

Did you check ever how does work a secondary build in this meta? How many hits you do, did you see that? You made a larger piece of crap than it was before. I really don't know what was your imagine with this secondary rework?! An originally bad play mechanic became worse and more useless.

 

Secondary dispersion have should been changed at least -100%, not -35% from -65% to became a bit effective with manual secondary. You always forget when someone build a brawler ship he gives up large part of survivability skills of his BB, somewhere he would have to get a strong compensation for it, but instead of it get a sucks.

[ColonelPete]

Kurfuerst is not the top secondary BB for years. The maps in high Tier do not allow that.

When you have trouble with a burning Kurfuerst or 20km range, you are playing her wrong.

Kurfuerst has slightly better accuracy as Bourgogne, which is one of the top Tier X BB. Kurfuerst has the same accuracy as Conq, which is also not a bad pick.

 

For secondaries to be workable at Tier X, you would need a different map design, which allows to get closer to the enemy without getting outflanked.

[DFens_666]

As @ColonelPete says, its the meta/maps fault, that secondary ships dont work. Buffing them would make them OP, especially if we are talking about such buffs, that you could just yolo in and kill every ship.

Im playing secondary ships in ranked, and it feels pretty useful to me. The difference is, in ranked you dont need more tanking skills, but you do need them in randoms. So if i go full secondaries in ranked, i hardly lose anything. I can work without CE, extra heal is basicly useless in small gamemodes because i hope to kill the enemies way before that, deadeye is completely useless... only need FP really, if you face HE spammers, and that i can get despite taking secondary skills. So i take more range, manual sec and CQC. CQC buffs my mainbattery reload, which gives me more offensive power than any other skill id take on a tank-build.

The only downside i see is, that taking the secondary module in 3rd slot prohibits you from taking ASM1. And you want to have more secondary range. US BBs dont have a problem with that, because they dont have ASM1. But germans have to make a compromise. Thats basicly the only thing where id say, WG could help out german BBs so they get their own module much like US BBs have Artillery Plotting room 2 in 6th slot.

 

Secondary Pommern

Killed the DD for me, half with guns, other half did my secondaries. Seems fine to me?

 

Secondary Georgia

 

[B051LjKo]

4 hours ago, Mydgard said:

Dear WG!

 

It is totally clear current secondary meta what you brought to the game worth nothing, it became more worthless as it was before. Best example the Grosser Kurfürst the top secondary ship.

- basically bad main gun towers shoting angles

- burn as Reichstag

- main guns are still inaccurate as hell

- shortest long range between T10s BBs

- remove survivability skills for a total useless secondary skills?

 

Did you check ever how does work a secondary build in this meta? How many hits you do, did you see that? You made a larger piece of crap than it was before. I really don't know what was your imagine with this secondary rework?! An originally bad play mechanic became worse and more useless.

 

Secondary dispersion have should been changed at least -100%, not -35% from -65% to became a bit effective with manual secondary. You always forget when someone build a brawler ship he gives up large part of survivability skills of his BB, somewhere he would have to get a strong compensation for it, but instead of it get a sucks.

What are you talking about. GK received a huge buff with the commanders rework. Just go full tank build, invest 0 points in the secondaries and enjoy the free basic accuracy buff. You will perform better than before. Just try to avoid getting burned from 20+ km,

[Karasu_Browarszky]

As far as I'm considered, the game mechanics when it comes to the secondaries have never worked correctly, that is to say for engaging enemy light forces and this is not a map issue, it's a game design and balancing issue first and foremost. (Though as a proponent of the Ocean you know my position when it comes to any other map we have...)

 

Under the sort of game design we have, the secondaries really are only useful in the sort of situations where IMHO you should be careful not to place yourself in the first place. After the disastrous captain skill rework, they now fail you utterly everywhere except in Coop.

[Mydgard]

51 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Kurfuerst is not the top secondary BB for years. The maps in high Tier do not allow that.

When you have trouble with a burning Kurfuerst or 20km range, you are playing her wrong.

Kurfuerst has slightly better accuracy as Bourgogne, which is one of the top Tier X BB. Kurfuerst has the same accuracy as Conq, which is also not a bad pick.

 

For secondaries to be workable at Tier X, you would need a different map design, which allows to get closer to the enemy without getting outflanked.

GK never has better accuracy like Bourgogne, that's sure. You speak about numbers - sigma, dispersion - what you never experienced in a real game... 😉

 

Then tell me what is the meaning of secondary skills at this moment? Sum 11 points:

1. Long-range secondary battery shells

2. Improved secondary battery aiming

3. Close quarters combat

 

Or put them to bin?

 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Mydgard said:

GK never has better accuracy like Bourgogne, that's sure. You speak about numbers - sigma, dispersion - what you never experienced in a real game... 😉

That is how dispersion works. You cannot "imagine" your shells to the target.

[SirAmra]

Played my first Kurry game since rework. None spent on upgrading the secondaries.

I got to use the secondaries once at a DD when late game I pushed in to get a cap, other than that it was a long range snipefest.

Tried twice earlier on to be aggressive, but I got hammered. So current meta for my part is not spending points on secondaries in randoms.

For me the whole rework is a massive letdown. Specially cruisers.

But seing this rework and the proposed crew 2.0 work in wot, well, they are going the cashcow route.....massively.

And at the rate they are going now, and me not spending money since 2019, well......wallet is closed.

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

there is only one BB build, you build tank or nothing

just like cruisers have nothing to spend on because it doesnt matter battleships only have one need that costs the full 21 points

the commander rework only did good things for CVs the rest of the classes lost choices 

enjoy crysers calling out BBabies for the foreseeable future as they try to hide behind you, because thats the meta 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Secondairies have never been a competetive option in the past, but they were good enough to meme and have fun with them. Currently, spreading the damage over multiple targets with less accuracy doesn't work, and the reason why it doesn't is fairly simple.

 

In the past, focusing secondairies on 1 target helped players to get rid of that opponent faster -> one less ship shooting at you. The current 'solution' fails because the damage (even assuming it's the same amount of damage total) is spread over multiple targets, and if one is facing only 1 target, effectively halved. It means when facing multiple targets that those all get to stay around way longer to shoot you down. Same goes for a 1 on 1, the opponent doesnt get punished by secondairies as much as it did before, so secondairies in that situation actually got nerfed hard. That is why secondairy builds currently are worse compared to the previous iteration: even if they apply the same amount of damage, that damage is unfocused and for the large part ineffective. Hence the death of a workable meme.

[Starchy_Tuber]

5 hours ago, Mydgard said:

Dear WG!

 

It is totally clear current secondary meta what you brought to the game worth nothing, it became more worthless as it was before. Best example the Grosser Kurfürst the top secondary ship.

- basically bad main gun towers shoting angles

- burn as Reichstag

- main guns are still inaccurate as hell

- shortest long range between T10s BBs

- remove survivability skills for a total useless secondary skills?

 

Did you check ever how does work a secondary build in this meta? How many hits you do, did you see that? You made a larger piece of crap than it was before. I really don't know what was your imagine with this secondary rework?! An originally bad play mechanic became worse and more useless.

 

Secondary dispersion have should been changed at least -100%, not -35% from -65% to became a bit effective with manual secondary. You always forget when someone build a brawler ship he gives up large part of survivability skills of his BB, somewhere he would have to get a strong compensation for it, but instead of it get a sucks.

(Secondary builds were never Optimal builds, they are now simply even less optimal.)

I believe that people were having fun, and as they are not a CV class WG had no choice but to nerf them.... leaving  the best 2ndaries to CVs, obviously.

Your answer is therefore to play CVs.

¬_¬

[ReapingKnight]

22 minutes ago, Starchy_Tuber said:

(Secondary builds were never Optimal builds, they are now simply even less optimal.)

I believe that people were having fun, and as they are not a CV class WG had no choice but to nerf them.... leaving  the best 2ndaries to CVs, obviously.

Your answer is therefore to play CVs.

¬_¬

The highlighted bit is completely true, I tested with a Graff Zeplin vs GK and each time at 6km I would deal like 70k before he killed me. Imagine if he was in an equal tier ship the CV would have won (secondaries only that is)

[zengaze]

No more reworks evidence has shown, a rework only [edited] a system more. WeeGee devs should be kept away from the codebase

[COPlUM]

Germans having worse accuracy hasn't been true for awhile now, two years I think? Secondary builds were always a funny meme.
GK is a montana that can't get deleted when showing broadside, what more do you want.

[CptBarney]

6 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Germans having worse accuracy hasn't been true for awhile now, two years I think? Secondary builds were always a funny meme.
GK is a montana that can't get deleted when showing broadside, what more do you want.

Resurrection, 152 triple and 203 triple secondaries with 2.2sigma and 3 sec reload. And Bright purple camo.

[hellhound666]

i dont care about tech tree ships - they can fck them up as deeply they want ...

what I do care about are the ships that were fcked after they were purchased with some special currency like US secondary bb's and supercruisers - for those there should be an option for compensation

[Hades_warrior]

We don't need rework, we need to reverse this rework to state as it was before.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Whats the range of the GK secondaries nowadays, on my FDG it is 12Km, sure wish the secondaries on my GZ were that range

[Sigimundus]

5 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

As @ColonelPete says, its the meta/maps fault, that secondary ships dont work. Buffing them would make them OP, especially if we are talking about such buffs, that you could just yolo in and kill every ship.

Im playing secondary ships in ranked, and it feels pretty useful to me. The difference is, in ranked you dont need more tanking skills, but you do need them in randoms. So if i go full secondaries in ranked, i hardly lose anything. I can work without CE, extra heal is basicly useless in small gamemodes because i hope to kill the enemies way before that, deadeye is completely useless... only need FP really, if you face HE spammers, and that i can get despite taking secondary skills. So i take more range, manual sec and CQC. CQC buffs my mainbattery reload, which gives me more offensive power than any other skill id take on a tank-build.

The only downside i see is, that taking the secondary module in 3rd slot prohibits you from taking ASM1. And you want to have more secondary range. US BBs dont have a problem with that, because they dont have ASM1. But germans have to make a compromise. Thats basicly the only thing where id say, WG could help out german BBs so they get their own module much like US BBs have Artillery Plotting room 2 in 6th slot.

 

Secondary Pommern

Killed the DD for me, half with guns, other half did my secondaries. Seems fine to me?

 

Secondary Georgia

 

These are rookie numbers

 

[CptBarney]

6 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Whats the range of the GK secondaries nowadays, on my FDG it is 12Km, sure wish the secondaries on my GZ were that range

Needs to be Atlanta levels before its satisfactory for me. Imagine the tier 11 and 12 german BB's probs would have what i put down lol.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

6 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Whats the range of the GK secondaries nowadays, on my FDG it is 12Km, sure wish the secondaries on my GZ were that range

 

12.5 km.

 

With the Mod 1 and 3 pt captain skill.

[CaptainKreutzer]

9 hours ago, Mydgard said:

You always forget when someone build a brawler ship he gives up large part of survivability skills of his BB, somewhere he would have to get a strong compensation for it, but instead of it get a sucks.

This is actually solved, previously before rework you couldn't get Fire Prevention or concealment. Now you can build for Tank secondary build, biggest problem tho is manual secondary nuked and buff for German seconaries aren't enough.

 

Ships such as Shikishima, American secondary BBs, German BBs and French BBs lost huge secondary power in this update, Reason is unknown but there's buffs needed for sure.

 

5 hours ago, Mydgard said:

GK never has better accuracy like Bourgogne, that's sure. You speak about numbers - sigma, dispersion - what you never experienced in a real game... 😉

GK actually always had same accuracy to Bourgogne but with full secondary build you give up on main battery accuracy that's why it feels different.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Tried a couple of random battles with a secondary build GK....

 

Not recommended. The problem is not so much with the lackluster secondaries as it is with the fact that you get shot us and HE spammed long before you can return any fire, not just with secondaries but even with your main guns!

[DFens_666]

3 hours ago, Sigimundus said:

These are rookie numbers

 

 

Havent played that many games yet (4 Georgia, 6 Pommern) but i got use out of the secondaries in 8 out of 10... kinda (depends what one thinks about the 10k on the DD, because i didnt do anything that battle anyway, except hunt a DD with my BB lol).

2 Games could have been better, but my team decided "nope, you are not gonna kill the enemies with your secondaries"

[Sigimundus]

4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Havent played that many games yet (4 Georgia, 6 Pommern) but i got use out of the secondaries in 8 out of 10... kinda (depends what one thinks about the 10k on the DD, because i didnt do anything that battle anyway, except hunt a DD with my BB lol).

2 Games could have been better, but my team decided "nope, you are not gonna kill the enemies with your secondaries"

I play now mostly ranked. The smaller format (7vs7) is much better for brawlers respective secondary builds. It is much easier to get to secondary range.