The end of Flint

[Giuturna]

Is anybody capable of a satysfing battle after the captain skill rework ??

[Lootboxer]

I had one nice game when we've carried hard as a bottom trier vs t9s. But it was in a div with my clanmates in Atlanta and Yudachi. Still range is totall cr@p and very, very limiting. Luckily the map was small enough with a lot of islands close to the cap points, but when they started to run I was completely hopeless. Can't imagine how poor experience would be on a bigger and open map. After this one game I gave up on Flint until they will buff range and /or fix t7 MM. 

[illy]

i'm getting either good or really bad games, it can be fun but also very frustrating seeing all those enemies kiting away out of range

[Giuturna]

Basically you need to get close to the reds to shoot, smoke, and when the smoke is over being shred to pieces in one BB salvo (if they did not manage to heavily damage you while concealed). Parking at 11 km to tier IX BB is an experience ... In the current meta is a  crap ship and I wasted so much carbon to get it... For old players it was a legendary vessel... I even tried to return the ship to wargaming but they denied...

[SirTogII]

They’re gonna sort the range on it though as far as I could tell from the answers given so far. Surprised it’s not included in the next patch as it’s a bit if a no brainer. 

[YabbaCoe]

Před 36 minutami Giuturna řekl/a:

Basically you need to get close to the reds to shoot, smoke, and when the smoke is over being shred to pieces in one BB salvo (if they did not manage to heavily damage you while concealed). Parking at 11 km to tier IX BB is an experience ... In the current meta is a  crap ship and I wasted so much carbon to get it... For old players it was a legendary vessel... I even tried to return the ship to wargaming but they denied...

Unfortunately you can't return the ship after long time using that. After purchase you have limit of 24 hours and maximum of 5 battles played, to be able to ask for return. But nothing outside that.

 

We understand, that currently playing with Flint can be frustrating, as she is looking at Atlanta, who got her range buff. As we mentioned, we still closely watch the results of Flint and when we decide we need to do something here, we will. But so far no ETA for that, as it is also not sure, that it will happen.

[hellhound666]

59 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Unfortunately you can't return the ship after long time using that. After purchase you have limit of 24 hours and maximum of 5 battles played, to be able to ask for return. But nothing outside that.

 

We understand, that currently playing with Flint can be frustrating, as she is looking at Atlanta, who got her range buff. As we mentioned, we still closely watch the results of Flint and when we decide we need to do something here, we will. But so far no ETA for that, as it is also not sure, that it will happen.

even if wg/lesta in their ultimate wisdom (=ignorance here) have fcked them up like secondary bb's, super cruisers, flint ... and then you wonder in your meetings that why player base hates you so much while you do only good, like fcking .... .

allow fcked up ships to be compensated and there will much less hate ... but this might be a too complex of a concept as I've understood lately about wg/lesta staff

[YabbaCoe]

Před 31 minutami hellhound666 řekl/a:

even if wg/lesta in their ultimate wisdom (=ignorance here) have fcked them up like secondary bb's, super cruisers, flint ... and then you wonder in your meetings that why player base hates you so much while you do only good, like fcking jesuses.

allow fcked up ships to be compensated and there will much less hate ... but this might be a too complex of a concept as I've understood lately about wg/lesta staff

To buff or as you mentioned compensate those ships, you need data and analysis of how much they were "punished" or became worse than before. It is simply not possibly to blindly buff everything, as we can't nerf premium ships. So with buffs of premium ships we need to be cautious not to go too far. That is why Flint didn't get same buff as Atlanta, as it has smoke and therefore some advantage comparing those two ships.

[Zen71_sniper]

3 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

To buff or as you mentioned compensate those ships, you need data and analysis of how much they were "punished" or became worse than before. It is simply not possibly to blindly buff everything, as we can't nerf premium ships. So with buffs of premium ships we need to be cautious not to go too far. That is why Flint didn't get same buff as Atlanta, as it has smoke and therefore some advantage comparing those two ships.

Let me try to playback what you said;

 

Assumption is that Flint and Atlanta were balanced (as they should be) before the nerf. They both got nerfed (incidentally, after putting Flint in armoury - but that is another story....).  Now you are saying that one had to be buffed and you are not sure about other one, yet they were balanced before the SAME nerf? 

 

WG logic or just  a pathetic PR spin?

 

[hellhound666]

5 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

 as we can't nerf premium ships. So with buffs of premium ships 

should i provide the list of premium ships that were just nerfed or maybe you can figure it out with help of your colleagues?

 

ps! I've understood that you (=wg/lesta) were gurus of all kind of spreadsheets ... and now you cant figure it out ... perhaps you should not run tests on the live server then

you (=wg/lesta again) are really fcking joke

[Vbeest]

37 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

That is why Flint didn't get same buff as Atlanta, as it has smoke and therefore some advantage comparing those two ships.

Which, as everyone knows, was not the case pre-rework...

[principat121]

6 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

That is why Flint didn't get same buff as Atlanta, as it has smoke and therefore some advantage comparing those two ships.

Flint did has the same smoke too before the 0.10.0 patch. And Wargaming was okay with that. That this ship has a smoke can thus not be the excuse for the difference in treatments compared to Atlanta.

 

Flint and Atlanta were basically the same ships with the major difference that the one has Radar and the other smoke. The minor differences (turrets, torps) are negletable. Giving the Atlanta a range buff with the Commander Rework, while denying the very same buff to the Flint is not comprehensible in any logical way.

 

As many other stated the reason will most likely lay in the way you get those ships:

- Atlanta: luck with crates or hard cash

- Flint: ingame resources

To do not risk any legal matters with unsatisfied customers, Wargaming decided that the only-for-hard-cash-Atlanta will get a buff, while the Flint's buff is denyable as you "only" have to spent time instead of money to get the latter one.

 

The buff of the Atlanta was just an "avoid-legal-affairs-move".

[HystericalAccuracy]

57 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

To buff or as you mentioned compensate those ships, you need data and analysis of how much they were "punished" or became worse than before.

You cut off 20% of the range of which the ship was initially balanced around.

 

Now imagine you go get your car from the shop where it got repaired and they tell you: here´s your car, but keep in mind we reduced engine-power by 20% because reasons.

Would you need a year of collecting data to realize that your car is having issues going up a hill or would you protest instantly (and never buy a car from that manufacturer again)?

 

And no, I won´t let go. I don´t have the Flint, but I am stuck with a Krasny Krim which also lost 20% range.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, YabbaCoe said:

To buff or as you mentioned compensate those ships, you need data and analysis of how much they were "punished" or became worse than before. It is simply not possibly to blindly buff everything, as we can't nerf premium ships. So with buffs of premium ships we need to be cautious not to go too far. That is why Flint didn't get same buff as Atlanta, as it has smoke and therefore some advantage comparing those two ships.

What a load of bullocks. Another one of WGs self created problems that are absolute nonsense.

[YabbaCoe]

Před 2 hodinami Zen71_sniper řekl/a:

Let me try to playback what you said;

 

Assumption is that Flint and Atlanta were balanced (as they should be) before the nerf. They both got nerfed (incidentally, after putting Flint in armoury - but that is another story....).  Now you are saying that one had to be buffed and you are not sure about other one, yet they were balanced before the SAME nerf? 

 

WG logic or just  a pathetic PR spin?

 

Of course their range suffered with Commander Skills rework. Testers and also players during PT mentioned, that 11.1km range of Atlanta is very low, so as we understood that, we decided to dirrectly buff her range. But to gather further data, how this buff actually worked in terms of the effectivity of that ship, we decided to leave Flint with the same range as it has before.

We still can buff her, but we can't nerf her.

 

Před 2 hodinami hellhound666 řekl/a:

should i provide the list of premium ships that were just nerfed or maybe you can figure it out with help of your colleagues?

 

ps! I've understood that you (=wg/lesta) were gurus of all kind of spreadsheets ... and now you cant figure it out ... perhaps you should not run tests on the live server then

you (=wg/lesta again) are really fcking joke

Please, provide, if you had that. We never directly nerfed any premium ship.

Some ships could have been negatively influenced with global change, but it was never direct nerf.

 

[Onsterfelijke]

Anyone played the Friesland? I find it also changed slower reload does impact the ship a lot. I have only a 17 point captain on her but compared before the skill rework the damage output is 15-20% less.

Also experining with other skills i don't have the feel those are working.

[Humorpalanta]

11 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Of course their range suffered with Commander Skills rework. Testers and also players during PT mentioned, that 11.1km range of Atlanta is very low, so as we understood that, we decided to dirrectly buff her range. But to gather further data, how this buff actually worked in terms of the effectivity of that ship, we decided to leave Flint with the same range as it has before.

We still can buff her, but we can't nerf her.

What? :D

This is stupidest logic I have ever heard :D

 

So you buffed Atlanta because it had a small pp base range but with Flint having the same you didn't buff it...for reasons...

 

 

The game is a joke right now thanks to the Reeeeework.

[Zen71_sniper]

21 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

But to gather further data, how this buff actually worked in terms of the effectivity of that ship, we decided to leave Flint with the same range

Are you serious??!??

 

It is like chopping a leg from two guys, giving one a prosthetic leg and saying, I just want to see how effective is before I give it to the other one. While expecting them to perform the same? 

 

[Lootboxer]

How something OK before skills rework, nerfed already heavily in AA department by CV rework, can suddenly become to strong? Do you think that mayority played Flint before with base range or what that you need to collect more data? It's all about real cash for Atlanta vs resources for Flint. And how are you going to collect those data if most stopped to play the ship anymore?  Edit:I forgot about one more substantial nerf: ifhe rework. 

[ColonelPete]

Please note that we had multiple complaints about the range increase of Atlanta. Some people do not like getting spotted from farther away.

Additionally Flint has smoke, which allows her to get closer.

[hellhound666]

17 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Please, provide, if you had that. We never directly nerfed any premium ship.

Some ships could have been negatively influenced with global change, but it was never direct nerf.

 

not surprising answer tbh - we didn't nerf anything directly blahblahblah, it is a global change of blahblahblah, you should have suggested to read also eula or some crap you produce

"could have been" - fcking joke

it is far too complex concept that some ships provided some gameplay that was now removed ...

you are really becoming more disgusting as time goes forward ... and deserve what is coming

all you's refer to company group wg/lesta and not to any person

[Tordenskjold23]

2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

To buff or as you mentioned compensate those ships, you need data and analysis of how much they were "punished" or became worse than before. It is simply not possibly to blindly buff everything, as we can't nerf premium ships. So with buffs of premium ships we need to be cautious not to go too far. That is why Flint didn't get same buff as Atlanta, as it has smoke and therefore some advantage comparing those two ships.

We don't play that ship anymore - so no data incomming

[DFens_666]

33 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Of course their range suffered with Commander Skills rework. Testers and also players during PT mentioned, that 11.1km range of Atlanta is very low, so as we understood that, we decided to dirrectly buff her range. But to gather further data, how this buff actually worked in terms of the effectivity of that ship, we decided to leave Flint with the same range as it has before.

We still can buff her, but we can't nerf her. 

 

Pre-captain rework:

1. Atlanta with range x can skill AFT for range y

2. Flint with range x can skill AFT for range y

 

after captain rework

3. Atlanta gets buff so that range y is now standard range

4. Flint gets no buff, is stuck with range x

 

Why would performance between 1. and 3. be different? You already knew how Atlanta performs with 13km range - it was old Atlanta with AFT. Or did someone at WG expect, that Atlanta (Cruisers in general) get buffed with the captain rework?

If you want to know how Flint/Atlanta performed with 11km range, just look at people who didnt spec AFT prior to rework.

 

If you cant nerf/buff premiums as you wish, why couldnt you make a module, maybe as test for 1 patch ONLY for Atlanta and Flint, which increases range by 20%? Let them put it into 5th slot, which they didnt have anyway, that way, you wouldnt run into problems with buffing them. After you are done testing, you can decide to buff them for real, or just let them have the module instead. If you decided, no, they dont need extra range, remove 5th slot as global change for T7 US CLs

[illy]

29 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Please note that we had multiple complaints about the range increase of Atlanta. Some people do not like getting spotted from farther away.

Additionally Flint has smoke, which allows her to get closer.

you can get really close with that smoke as long as a DD doesn't spot you beforehand, getting away is the problem as you have less than 2km between being able to shoot something and not being spotted, the Flint isn't built to take sustained fire and at less than 11km it's back to port with your trousers around ankles before you know it

[GulvkluderGuld]

7 hours ago, Giuturna said:

Is anybody capable of a satysfing battle after the captain skill rework ??

(Only in) Operations (but that was true before the rework too)