BUFF HIZEN

[leonport]

To show that hizen is underpowered lets compare it to amagi a tier 8 japanese bb

 

Lets start off with the main guns:

amagi firepower is 10 410mm guns with 12600dmg/shot and and an ap dpm of 252 000dmg,180° Turn Time:41.86 s,1.8sigma with japanese dispersion,19.9 km max range

 

hizen fire power is 12 410mm guns with 12750dmg/shot and an ap dpm of 241 578dmg,180° Turn Time:45 s,1.7simga with japanese dispersion,20.3 km max range

penetration and shell travel time chart here:

so in terms of fire power hizen has a wooping 150more dmg/shot and 2 more guns and bit better penetration,shell flight time,also 400m bettter main gun range but for the cons of lower rate of fire,lower base dpm(hizen has 274 521dpm if you equip reload mod but your turett rotation weakness will be even worse),lower sigma,worse turett rotation

 

i consider this a slight win for hizen because with main battery reload mod it has more dpm than amagi also it has a better main gun fireing angles,but still remember hizen is tier 9 and it has just a bit better overall firepower

 

 

Lets move on to survivability:

 

amagi: deck armor:32mm plating all around,small superstructure,280mm turett barbette armor, torpedo protection that covers the 254mm of side armor behind it,underwater citadel with 95-102mm turtleback,43% torpedo belt,4 heals,66 300base hp,111 978 potential maximum dmg can be with all 4 heals used(no modifications),WAY SMALLER THAN HIZEN

 

hizen:deck armor:32mm plating all,bigger superstructure than amagi,360mm turett barbette armor,torpedo,356mm side armor,above the waterline citadel with 108-115mm turtleback,37% torpedo belt,3 heals,75 900 base hp,112 449 potential maximum dmg can be with all 4 heals used(no modifications),BIG AS FAK

 

so in terms of survivability hizen has more base hp,+100mm turett barbette armor,thiccer side armor for the cons of WAY BIGGER profile than amagi,above the waterline citadel,flat 6% less torpedo damage reduction on torpedo belt,torpedo belt does not cover side amor(enemy will get no torpedo belt hit ribbons),more farmable superstructure,1 less heal that causes hizen to have same maximum potential dmg absorved before death.

 

i consider this a win for amagi,ALSO GUYS REMEMBER HIZEN IS A TIER 9 BB while amagi is a tier 8 bb

 

 

lets move on to Concealment:

 

amagi has Detectability Range by Sea:17.3 km and Detectability Range by Air:11 km

 

hizen has  Detectability Range by Sea:17.4 km and Detectability Range by Air:13 km

 

these are just numbers and hizen lost sea Detectability Range to amagi by 100m and also lost Air Detectability Range by 2km

 

while amagi Concealment sucks hard hizen suck Harder

 

 

Lets compare AA:

 

amagi:garbage

hizen:LITEARLY THE SAME AS AMAGI(Go check it, im not joking) exept hizen's flak deal 1540dmg instead of amagi's 1470dmg

 

yeah hizen aa is litearly the same as amagi aa, they even have the same number of aa guns,but hizen's flak deals 70more dmg/shot

 

i consider this a draw but still just remember hizen is tier 9 and it meets tier 10cvs more often than amagi

 

 

Lets check Maneuverability:

 

amagi: Maximum Speed:30 knots,Turning Circle Radius:870 m,Rudder Shift Time:17.3 s

hizen: Maximum Speed:28.2 knots,Turning Circle Radius:880 m,Rudder Shift Time:17.1 s

 

so amagi beats hizen in terms of top speed by 1.8 knots and -10m turning circle size,while hizen has 0.2s better rudder

 

do i even have to say who won this category?

 

And for last lets compare secondary just because hizen sucks at that too

 

amagi secondary consists of 8x140mm casemate guns and 4x2x120mm dual purpuse guns,their combined dpm is 312k (for one side),6.6km base range 10km maxiumum range

hizen secondary consists of 2x3x155mm mogami turetts and 4x2x120mm dual purpuse guns,their combined dpm is 229k (for one side),7km base range 10.6km maxiumum range

 

so in terms of secondary amagi beats hizen by 90k dpm but has +400m base range oh and i forgot to mention amagi's 140mm casemate guns have massachusetts aim

 

In terms of secondary power amagi beats hizen 

 

 

So hizen is worse than amagi in everyway and if its not worse in something than its just different but not better than amagi.

but here is the plot twist:hizen is a tier 9 ship shile amagi is a tier 8

wargaming overnerfed hizen,i already seen that they buffed premium ships after release can hizen get the same threatment,like giving it 4 base repair party?

hizen is an uptiered amagi that is worse than amagi

the only reason why hizen isn't total pepega garbage is because amagi is a good tier 8 bb

 

PLS BUFF HIZEN SO THAT ITS AT LEAST ON PAIR WITH AMAGI

 

 

[Fatal_Ramses]

Why? Ppl already spent their money on it, no point in buffing.

[Angry_Penguin18]

They could nerf Amagi...that'd make Hizen look good.

[SuperDare83]

I agree, buff's required

[Itwastuesday]

5 minutes ago, Angry_Penguin18 said:

They could nerf Amagi...that'd make Hizen look good.

Unfortunately Izumo exists and makes Hizen look really bad. Heck, any T9 bb makes Hizen look really bad. I'd far sooner drive an FdG, at least that ship reloads before the heat death of the universe.

[ThePolishDJ]

Hizen was fun to play when it was still being tested

[Jethro_Grey]

We figured out out WGs formula, by which WG decides which ships gets buffed or nerfed ages ago.

 

See the simplified version below.

 

is ship = russian;

return "buff";

 

is ship = german;

return "nerf it into the ground...and then some more";

 

is ship = string;

cheaters of Tsushima

capitalist

english imperialist

anything else

 

do nothing (bugger all);

 

end of line;

 

[leonport]

31 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Why? Ppl already spent their money on it, no point in buffing.

this devblog post gave me hope that hizen might get buffed too,if not then i want everyone to know how bad hizen is so the next time wg sells it(if they even do it at somepoint,PR never returned since its dockyard event) people don't waste their money or coal or free xp on this junk

[Fatal_Ramses]

1 minute ago, leonport said:

this devblog post gave me hope that hizen might get buffed too,if not then i want everyone to know how bad hizen is so the next time wg sells it(if they even do it at somepoint,PR never returned since its dockyard event) people don't waste their money or coal or free xp on this junk

There are quite many premium ships that need buffs... not to mention some need them even to compete with techtree counterparts.

Buffs for Hizen would be nice, but I'm afraid this "Japanese Minnesota" wont get them.

[D4TC4]

37 dakika önce, Angry_Penguin18 dedi:

They could nerf Amagi...that'd make Hizen look good.

+1

[Ocsimano18]

8 hours ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Why? Ppl already spent their money on it, no point in buffing.

 I fully grinded the dockyard missions but did not buy Hizen,waiting for the buff... 

[MementoMori_6030]

Why should a somehow cheap T9 whale trap be any good in the first place? Maybe its HP should be reduced to Odin level...

[TheBicentennialman]

if you want WarGaming to start listing to YOU then give them 

 

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

Lol. Hizen. Lol.

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

11 ore fa, Angry_Penguin18 ha scritto:

They could nerf Amagi...that'd make Hizen look good.

Don't say it ! don't give WG bad ideas 

[FatherTorque]

I don't see a problem with Hizen. Guns are fine, better then i expected to be honest ( on paper they look mediocre). They can easily pen anything in range, can punish broadside BBs with at least 1 citadel hit and 20k salvoes. Even HE shells are fine against angled hard targets. The only problem i had was 3 heals which i had to negate by respeccing my commander for 1 more.

[leonport]

3 hours ago, FatherTorque said:

I don't see a problem with Hizen. Guns are fine, better then i expected to be honest ( on paper they look mediocre). They can easily pen anything in range, can punish broadside BBs with at least 1 citadel hit and 20k salvoes. Even HE shells are fine against angled hard targets. The only problem i had was 3 heals which i had to negate by respeccing my commander for 1 more.

Man did you read my post? amagi is just a better hizen at tier 8 thats my main problem, there is not a tier 9 ship that gets beaten in basically everything over its tier 8 version,even fdg that people like to say its garbage it still has noticable improvements over the bismarck

[ColonelPete]

14 minutes ago, leonport said:

Man did you read my post? amagi is just a better hizen at tier 8 thats my main problem, there is not a tier 9 ship that gets beaten in basically everything over its tier 8 version,even fdg that people like to say its garbage it still has noticable improvements over the bismarck

But she is not.

Hizen can shoot all her guns while well angled, Amagi cannot do that.

And Amagi is softer.

[leonport]

36 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

But she is not.

Hizen can shoot all her guns while well angled, Amagi cannot do that.

And Amagi is softer.

i understand the fire angles statement,yes hizen has good fireing angles,but softer??????????? I ask again did you read my post?There i explained all the things why amagi has better survivability, besides base hp and better raw side armor value in what way amagi is softer?? amagi can tank the same damage as hizen at tier 8,has the same deck armor,has less farmable superstructure,way smaller than hizen,1.8knots faster,underwater citadel.So hizen has better fireing angles for all of these downsides including uplifted to tier 9,HIZEN IS THE WORST TIER 9 BB that has a role that a lot of ships do better than her including its tier 8 counterpart amagi.

[ColonelPete]

13 minutes ago, leonport said:

There i explained all the things why amagi has better survivability, besides base hp and better raw side armor value in what way amagi is softer??

That are the reasons.

 

The other arguments are hardly noticeable.

• Players aim for the center mass, a slight size difference will not change much.
• 1.8 knots do not get you hit noticeably less
• the underwater citadel helps at short range and when you expose your citadel, when you do not do that, it does not make much difference

[leonport]

16 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That are the reasons.

 

The other arguments are hardly noticeable.

• Players aim for the center mass, a slight size difference will not change much.
• 1.8 knots do not get you hit noticeably less
• the underwater citadel helps at short range and when you expose your citadel, when you do not do that, it does not make much difference

hizen is way wider than amagi which means it eats more bombs from cvs and gets farmed by thunderers or yamato ap or german secondary that pen 32mm more easily, hizen also has worse torpedo damage protection which means it will receive more dmg from torps and 1.8knots speed difference is "not so big" its just enough to define that you escape alive or get farmed to death,and denying that underwater citadel doesn't help you is plain dumb,also amagi's entire side armor is covered by  32mm torpedo protection so amagi's side armor effective thickness is about 280mm and its also tend to make enemy shells vanish to the torpedo protection void with dealing 0 dmg

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, leonport said:

hizen is way wider than amagi which means it eats more bombs from cvs and gets farmed by thunderers or yamato ap or german secondary that pen 32mm more easily, hizen also has worse torpedo damage protection which means it will receive more dmg from torps and 1.8knots speed difference is "not so big" its just enough to define that you escape alive or get farmed to death,and denying that underwater citadel doesn't help you is plain dumb,also amagi's entire side armor is covered by  32mm torpedo protection so amagi's side armor effective thickness is about 280mm and its also tend to make enemy shells vanish to the torpedo protection void with dealing 0 dmg

• how much is this "way wider"?
• Yamato, Thunderers and KM secondaries do the same to Amagi
• torpedos are hardly a problem for skilled players
• I am not denying anything, I told you were an underwater citadel makes a difference
• layered armor protects vs HE shells, which would shatter on Hizen on the same location

It looks like Amagi is just easier to play for inexperienced players.

[leonport]

32 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• how much is this "way wider"?
• Yamato, Thunderers and KM secondaries do the same to Amagi
• torpedos are hardly a problem for skilled players
• I am not denying anything, I told you were an underwater citadel makes a difference
• layered armor protects vs HE shells, which would shatter on Hizen on the same location

It looks like Amagi is just easier to play for inexperienced players.

look at this image: 

see hizen is about 20% wider and has about 20% wider citadel,do you still deny this is a lot?

 

and my point with yamato thunderer km secondary was that if you are 20% wider you will receive more hits ergo die more quick 

 

you said "the underwater citadel helps at short range and when you expose your citadel, when you do not do that, it does not make much difference" which isn't true, while underwater citadel helps you more at close range its also helps you prevent a lot of citadels on long range too but its not with the same efficiency

 

my point with the extended torpedo protection that covers amagi side armor  was that it also increases amagi's raw side armor value so its 280mm instead of 250mm so hizen's thick side armor isn't as big upgrade as it seems

 

and for the torpedo thing: even if you are a high skilled player you will sometimes eat torps and having 6% more torpedo protection isn't a bad thing to have,if you eat 3 shima torps in hizen you will receive 39 690dmg while you only receive 35 910dmg, thats a total of 3 780dmg prevented which is nice to have

 

[venderbomb]

28,700 posts? If you take an average of 60s per post (some more sums less)

 

You've been typing on the forums for 20 days equivalent!🤣

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, leonport said:

look at this image:

see hizen is about 20% wider and has about 20% wider citadel,do you still deny this is a lot?

 

and my point with yamato thunderer km secondary was that if you are 20% wider you will receive more hits ergo die more quick 

 

you said "the underwater citadel helps at short range and when you expose your citadel, when you do not do that, it does not make much difference" which isn't true, while underwater citadel helps you more at close range its also helps you prevent a lot of citadels on long range too but its not with the same efficiency

 

my point with the extended torpedo protection that covers amagi side armor  was that it also increases amagi's raw side armor value so its 280mm instead of 250mm so hizen's thick side armor isn't as big upgrade as it seems

 

and for the torpedo thing: even if you are a high skilled player you will sometimes eat torps and having 6% more torpedo protection isn't a bad thing to have,if you eat 3 shima torps in hizen you will receive 39 690dmg while you only receive 35 910dmg, thats a total of 3 780dmg prevented which is nice to have

 

You do not have any direct measurements of the model, just measurements from an unknown angle of sight?

You do not get sunk quicker, when you use the armor.

And I prefer 8k more HP to 3800 less damage from some hypothetical torpedos.