Budyonny is the single most overpowered cruiser at tier VI and here's why

[anonym_ziPQbxoJkOE7]

Hi

I know I'm not the guy who contributes a lot to these forums. You can mostly see me lurking around in the "What were your greatest gaming achievements today" topic and I really don't do much aside from that, cause I don't feel like there's topics I can talk about that people haven't already touched beforehand, but with this one I feel like I can share something new with the forumites here, so let's go

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Budyonny

 

Long time ago, when I was a potato, and didn't really know how to play cruisers, I disliked this ship. I didn't do much, and died. Then I started improving, and had quite the success with Shchors later on and once I got tired of constantly facing tier IX (Since we all know how good the glorious matchmaking is) I decided to just chill at mid tiers, and picked Budyonny.

Now Shchors has taught me to play very cautiously due to her squishyness.

"Play at a safe range so you don't get devastated". That kind of thing. And only then I realized this ship has the exact same guns as Shchors and Chapa. Which means great shell velocity and travel time. I started playing around max range, using spotter and I was shocked of the improvement I made

 

                                                                                      ^{This was from the last 21 days but you get my point}

 

At that point I realized this thing is [edited] overpovered. The ability to effectively farm even at long range where battleships struggle to hit you due to Buddy's borderline outstanding shell ballistics is not a joke.

 

 

This graph shows that Budyonny has both the shortest shell travel time AND the best penetration over distance from ALL tier VI light cruisers. This is bonkers

 

Gameplay

Positioning is not hard in this ship.
While most light cruisers at the same tier struggle to find good positions to abuse due to their limited range, Budyonny, if fails to do so, can just pop spotter, extend it's range to 20km and just farm,farm and farm while being a VERY difficult target to hit.

 

                             ^{Hate being HE spammed by cruisers in your BB? Just stay out of their range bruh}

 

 And with the commander REEEwork, we got a new skill, "Eye in the sky" which allows players to maximize spotter plane efficiency on their cruisers if they chose to do so

Now hear me out

This skill is tailor made for both Budyonny and Shchors. you can take this skill, halve the cooldown time of your spotter, and with consumable specialist, the consumable cooldown signal, and the spotter coal upgrade from the armory, you can have access to this efficient long range firepower more consistently while blunting the impact of the halved spotter duration from the skill

 

 

65 seconds is enough to deal meaningful damage and the cooldown isn't even that long

 

Vs Tier VIII - Still reliable

Everyone's worst nightmare is facing opponents two tiers higher than them. Tier VI cruisers are really having a hard time due to their limited range, and tier VIII BBs tend to sit further back, and even more so thanks to the growing Deadeye meta amongst them.

However Budyonny does not care. Spotter will allow you to farm even those Battleships sitting at A-B line the entire match and punish them for it. Which is a great thing. Not that they'd do much aside from

"REEE HE SPAM OP"

 

When top tier - BROKEN
 

Being top tier in Budyonny, is not even a fair fight. For the enemy at least. One match I managed to COMPLETELY farm an Iron Duke to death from HIS SPAWN, and got Arsonist 4 minutes in.

 

Farmed to death from 20km. I felt sad. He couldn't even do anything due to mid tier BBs being of the dreadnought era, and are extremely slow.

 

Afterword

"Why should I play Budyonny when Graf Spee exists?"

 

Rightful question. Spee is workhorse amongst tier VI cruisers, that has strong guns that make her a fearsome opponent for other cruisers, and a heal that gives her sustain. So isn't she just better than Budyonny?

Here's my points:

 

• Slow - Spee lacks mobility with her 28.5 knot maximum speed. When spotted, dodging is not much of an option.
  All you can do, is try to mitigate incoming damage, and that doesn't really work against tier VIII BBs that overmatch the entirey of your armor scheme. Budyonny in the mean time, can just dodge with her 35 knots rather effectively
   
• Inaccurate - Due to her massive caliber for a cruiser for her tier, wargaming had to balance Spee's firepower so she doesn't end up 360 noscoping cruisers left right and center. She has a meager 1.80 sigma and large dispersion that leads to salvos being inconsistent, and broadsides being left unpunished (Mikoyan has similar accuracy, just saying lul). Budyonny in the meantime, retains good accuracy even at 20km with spotter active
   
• Damage output - Spee relies on punishing broadsides with her strong AP. However people can just angle. And her HE performance is not stellar either. Pair that up with her inconsistent accuracy, and there isn't much left she can do against a top tier cruiser that just angles and melts her with HE. Budyonny in the mean time, still has her good HE and accuracy so people picking a fight with her will still take a beating

 

 

Well, this is my 2 cent opinion on possibly the most overpowered cruiser at tier VI. How do you feel about it? Discuss it below.

Dang. I don't even remember when was the last time I made a topic. Feels refreshing.

 

Good luck and fair seas out there, commanders!  

[DFens_666]

Well i wouldnt call it overpowered. Is it a strong Cruiser on T6? Definetely, but i dont think its too strong.

In your example, id more blame the broken CV spotting, as we can perfectly see. CV spots the BB for you, you can farm him from spawn, and there is nothing he can do about it, since he cant disengage. He couldnt even reach any island to shield himself from your fire, because he is too slow. Now imagine, if the CV couldnt spot ships for you. Then the BB could move ahead, and bring an island between you and him if necessary. But now he is trapped in the open, without anywhere to go. Maybe the Visby could have spotted him before he died, but i assume the CV just spotted him like 1 minute in and you could start to farm him.

 

[ColonelPete]

While she is a strong ship, I do not consider her to be too strong.

And playing her with a spotter focus is good for farming damage on BB, but they can take it.

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210213/eu_week/average_ship_u.html

[principat121]

In my personal view the Molotov with IFHE is way stronger.

[Panzer_Guido]

any T6 BB with a similar skill level will wipe the floor with a T6 cruiser. There is no OP T6 cruiser

[bobtherterrible]

Well i don't know about all those graphs and spreadsheets and what not but here's how i saw it

 

Kotovsky - no good attributes (ok maybe the ships horn sounds nice)

Budyonny - whahey much better finally i can enjoy playing these things 

Shorrs - this is going to be even bett........oh it's not

 

Although obvs i am terrible^tm at any of them

[anonym_ziPQbxoJkOE7]

27 minutes ago, principat121 said:

In my personal view the Molotov with IFHE is way stronger.

I played Molotov with IFHE before and it was indeed strong

However she has Donskoi railguns which is both a blessing and a curse:

- Easier to hit targets at longer ranges due to the flat shell arcs and great shell velocity

- Due to her flat shell arcs abusing islands to farm is difficult

 

Which leads to Molotov mostly doing open water to get damage. You can fire from behind Islands but you need to be a considerable distance from them so your shells can arc over

And she certainly is squishier than Budyonny. Weaker citadel armor, and (In my experience) a weak rudder that tends to get knocked out all the time

[Procrastes]

Hi, Captain @DEADSNAKE2!

 

It was interesting to read of your opinions concerning the Budyonny! I consider her to be a good cruiser at her tier, but I wouldn't call her overpowered. In my experience, long-range HE spam is too unreliable and too dependent on circumstances - such as access to cover and team members willing to spot - to be very much of a game-changer these days. You can do a good amount of damage if the stars are right, true, but you can also find yourself shooting a lot of ordnance that just drops into the sea. And if you get caught in the open in a big, slow-turning cruiser like the Budyonny, you are liable to get blapped by battleship AP in short order. They only have to get lucky once or twice, while you have to keep getting lucky all the time.

 

This is not to say that the Budyonny can't put the hurt on her enemies. You've clearly managed to do so with great aplomb, for which I can only congratulate you. You are quite obviously a far better marksman than I am!

 

If I am going to try my own luck at long-range HE spam, I personally prefer to sail out in the HMAS Perth. She doesn't have the same shell velocity and base range as the Budyonny, but she has a sneaky combination of moving smoke, hydro and spotter plane that makes her uniquely self-sufficient. Have you tried her out? If not, I would definitely recommend her!

 

And by the way, I would also like to hear your thoughts on the tier VII Russian cruiser, the Lazo? With access to long-range rifles and a near-constantly available spotter plane, she might perhaps fit your palate equally as well as her tier VI silver cousin?

[Ronchabale]

Budyonny... well if I can have 59% winrate in it in 159 battles there must be something going on

 

[anonym_ziPQbxoJkOE7]

21 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

Hi, Captain @DEADSNAKE2!

 

It was interesting to read of your opinions concerning the Budyonny! I consider her to be a good cruiser at her tier, but I wouldn't call her overpowered. In my experience, long-range HE spam is too unreliable and too dependent on circumstances - such as access to cover and team members willing to spot - to be very much of a game-changer these days. You can do a good amount of damage if the stars are right, true, but you can also find yourself shooting a lot of ordnance that just drops into the sea. And if you get caught in the open in a big, slow-turning cruiser like the Budyonny, you are liable to get blapped by battleship AP in short order. They only have to get lucky once or twice, while you have to keep getting lucky all the time.

 

This is not to say that the Budyonny can't put the hurt on her enemies. You've clearly managed to do so with great aplomb, for which I can only congratulate you. You are quite obviously a far better marksman than I am!

 

If I am going to try my own luck at long-range HE spam, I personally prefer to sail out in the HMAS Perth. She doesn't have the same shell velocity and base range as the Budyonny, but she has a sneaky combination of moving smoke, hydro and a spotter plane that makes her uniquely self-sufficient. Have you tried her out? If not, I would definitely recommend her!

 

And by the way, I would also like to hear your thoughts on the tier VII Russian cruiser, the Lazo? With access to long-range rifles and a near-constantly available spotter plane, she might perhaps fit your palate equally as well as her tier VI silver cousin?

I had Perth for rental during an event back in ~mid 2020 on my NA account. Didn't have much time to play her but under the few matches I got she was pretty interesting to play with the spotter/smoke gimmick.

 

On the side of Lazo, I got her last week. She's technically a better Shchors. Bit slower reload, better citadel armor and range. Did 100k the first match. Tho I was spamming the rapid spotter to farm a DoY.

[Jethro_Grey]

I wouldn't call it OP. Strong yes  OP no.

 

Budyonny and Schchors were my favourite mid tier cruisers (until Zara kicked Schchors into the ground) and Buddy is still my go-to cruiser in mid tier randoms and my most played cruiser on my alt-account. 

 

Budyonny's strength increases with the inability of enemy players to aim or position correctly. 

 

While true for any ship, Buddy has that tiny bit of an edge over other ships. 

 

 

[CptBarney]

I actually hated body with a passion that i sold her after 13 games with a 46% winrate.

Ended up liking shores alot more, but never thought much of them besides as above avg or average cruisers really.

[The_Chiv]

not over powered but definitely a strong cruiser.

[Big_Daddy5]

While strong and one of my favorite cruiser , it is definitely not OP.

Only noob BB can fall prey, any decent BB player will blap you and send you to port.

 

It can deal a good damage for sure due to the fast reloading guns and good fire starter. Nevertheless it is fragile and easy to kill as any other cruiser, if got focused fire.

Even before the captains rework there is less and less players playing cruisers and dds, and now nerf them even more and you will have only BB players and CVs in the queue waiting to test their newly equipped Dead Eye 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

I think Perth can do more but long range HE spam is easy  and up tiers very well.

Budyonny does this very well. 

[doerhoff_damian]

Budyonny is a nice Ship but she is not OP.

She has good DPM but nothing Special for a Tier 6 light Cruiser

Stealth is also Ok.

She turns better than some of the later Russian Cruisers like the shors or the Moskva but still nothing Special compared to other Cruisers

The Armor is quite nice for the Tier but that doesn´t mean that Battleships and Heavy Cruisers can´t punish you.

Sure the Range is nice. But you often have to go closer in order to Support Allies.

All in all she is a Decent Ship

[Skurfa]

I hate the headline.... I’m not sure why?

[invicta2012]

8 minutes ago, Skurfa said:

I hate the headline.... I’m not sure why?

It's not the OP's fault, it's just that type of headline tends to be attached to an article with a subtext that says "I know I'm right and I have already anticipated your puny objections."

 

I recall Budyonny being my favourite of the Soviet cruisers but it still has a turning circle the size of a battleship, and that means when you've engaged one it's either going to have to turn and show you a fat juicy broadside made entirely of citadels, or it's going to go in a straight line and show that broadside to someone else. Sounds as if the OP got lucky with a CV prepared to do some spotting and a BB player who hasn't discovered how to build for fire prevention - others will have 20K+ range, decent defensive builds and won't panic and put out the first fire. One decent AP volley back at a Soviet cruiser is normally enough to make it think again. 

[Matt_FSR]

Bear in mind that you're now playing her in the "Deadeye" meta of the game.

 

A large percentage of battleships are now desperate to hang back, avoid pushing forward for caps, and as a result CAN now be reliably farmed at 18-20km because they will not move forwards.

 

Yes, you could do this pre-rework, but if the enemy team pushed forwards, it resulted in Budyonny having to retreat, or die.  And retreating does not win battles.  

[The_Chiv]

2 hours ago, Big_Daddy5 said:

While strong and one of my favorite cruiser , it is definitely not OP.

Only noob BB can fall prey, any decent BB player will blap you and send you to port.

 

It can deal a good damage for sure due to the fast reloading guns and good fire starter. Nevertheless it is fragile and easy to kill as any other cruiser, if got focused fire.

Even before the captains rework there is less and less players playing cruisers and dds, and now nerf them even more and you will have only BB players and CVs in the queue waiting to test their newly equipped Dead Eye 

 

In some ways you have to play it like a t8 IJN cruiser. Line up the shot wait for the bb to fire on some one else shoot a salvo or two and then go dark while he turns guns to engage you. Fighting them is actually not that hard if you  can get a shot on them as long as you predict turn in or out right you can easily 1 shot them.

[Big_Daddy5]

1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

In some ways you have to play it like a t8 IJN cruiser. Line up the shot wait for the bb to fire on some one else shoot a salvo or two and then go dark while he turns guns to engage you. Fighting them is actually not that hard if you  can get a shot on them as long as you predict turn in or out right you can easily 1 shot them.

I think you are missing the point. I have no problem with playing Russian cruisers , with Shchors I have 29 to 1 kill ratio , ( Budyonny was grinded in operations mainly ) - I have problem with the statement that they are OP and then someone from WG decide to nerf them even more. If you keep the right distance you can be very effective with them against the Battleships, but that does not make them OP and we don't want a queue with BBs and CVs only, if cruisers got nerfed.

 

 

 

[The_Chiv]

33 minutes ago, Big_Daddy5 said:

I think you are missing the point. I have no problem with playing Russian cruisers , with Shchors I have 29 to 1 kill ratio , ( Budyonny was grinded in operations mainly ) - I have problem with the statement that they are OP and then someone from WG decide to nerf them even more. If you keep the right distance you can be very effective with them against the Battleships, but that does not make them OP and we don't want a queue with BBs and CVs only, if cruisers got nerfed.

 

 

 

 

I think you are missing the point.1. Its a game. 2 I never called it op, said it was powerful when played right which can apply to any ship in this game, said it is not hard to kill in a bb. I suggested using the IJN style of cruiser play with it to frustrate bbs and provide a bit more survivability to the play of the ship. 

 

Not sure how you missed all this and jumped instantly to the assumption I am saying it is op. There are few ships I would ever have said are OP in this game. Even the Smolensk was not OP. It was TOXIC AF, but relatively predictable thus could be countered with a bit of effort. The only thing you can ever call OP is the player as they are the ones who dictate how they play and thus dictate how a ship will perform. Calling something op is just another form of placing blame on everyone and everything but yourself thus I tend not to do this.

[Big_Daddy5]

11 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

 

I think you are missing the point.1. Its a game. 2 I never called it op, said it was powerful when played right which can apply to any ship in this game, said it is not hard to kill in a bb. I suggested using the IJN style of cruiser play with it to frustrate bbs and provide a bit more survivability to the play of the ship. 

 

Not sure how you missed all this and jumped instantly to the assumption I am saying it is op. There are few ships I would ever have said are OP in this game. Even the Smolensk was not OP. It was TOXIC AF, but relatively predictable thus could be countered with a bit of effort. The only thing you can ever call OP is the player as they are the ones who dictate how they play and thus dictate how a ship will perform. Calling something op is just another form of placing blame on everyone and everything but yourself thus I tend not to do this.

It was not clear to me what you are trying to say, I see now you was supporting my statement with the example of the IGN cruisers. 

Regarding Smolensk I never saw it as OP, was irritating HE spammer, but not so hard to kill ( especially when use the smoke and stay like a sitting duck inside just to eat few torpedoes seconds later ) 

 

And actually yes, both IGN and Russian cruisers can be successfully played with right distance and dodging ( Line up the shot wait for the bb to fire on some one else shoot a salvo or two and then go dark while he turns guns to engage you). 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ysterpyp]

budyonny / molotov has strong ap ... haha ok

 

[anonym_ziPQbxoJkOE7]

Alright

Reading through the comments now did I realize this was hella biased from my part. I could've been more reasonable with the entire thing instead of just straight up saying "Ayy lmao this sh*t is broken OP"

I do agree with everyone up there. She is decent, and can be very strong in the right hands, but is definitely not OP. Maybe I'll make more of these ship spotlight threads in the future about ships I like playing

But instead of it being "This ship is OP and here's why" It'll be "This ship is good and this is why you should play it".

Thank ya'll for the replies and shedding some light on my biased brain!