Point of US DDs ?

[XDukenukemX]

I reseted the US DD line to test the feature and also the ships were gathering a fair bit of dust for a really long time (basically since begining)

So after reaching T8 what is the point of US DDs in current game?

The are:

Outspotted by JAP torp boats

Outgunned by almost everything except JAP torp boat

Mediocre speed

Mediocre AA

Mediocre HP

no radar/sonar (so the better smoke is useless pretty much 1/2 of time, and exactly everytime you need it)

short range torps (except gearing, which is kinda pointless, you need him for 1 game)

 

My plan is to use as much Free XP as possible to grind up this powercrept wrecks and next time reset something else, or is there some super secret trick Im missing?

the firing from out of spotrange is dead for a super long time, think WG forgot that this boats pretty much didnt do anything else good.

 

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

I reseted the US DD line to test the feature and also the ships were gathering a fair bit of dust for a really long time (basically since begining)

So after reaching T8 what is the point of US DDs in current game?

The are:

1. Outspotted by JAP torp boats
2. Outgunned by almost everything except JAP torp boat
3. Mediocre speed
4. Mediocre AA
5. Mediocre HP

1. That is why they have better guns
2. No. US DD have high DPM, they are just not good at range
3. It gets the job done
4. US DD have stronger AA than most DD
5. they have more HP than most

They are good at taking out enemy DD. They have extremly good smoke that can be used to the advantage of the team and have decent torps in high Tier.

[ThePurpleSmurf]

Nothing wrong with the US DDs. Looking at your stats reveal that you are just horrible with DDs in general. Your best DD is Kamikaze R, which is THE sealclubber in the game and people play it if they want to have a 75% WR in any ship, but you have only a 52% WR with it. Looking at all detail stats across your DD board i'd conclude that you are simply not a DD guy. You also have only 20% of your played games in DDs and you seem to be a BB main with almost 50% of your played games. The extremely low average damage in DDs also suggest that you simply play them wrong. So it's not the DD line's fault, it's the player IMO. You should stick to Cruisers and BBs, because you perform significantly better with them, at least compared to your DDs.

 

But you are not wrong, the US DDs got powercrept by quite a bit and could need some form of buff. But knowing WG this will never happen.

[ForlornSailor]

4 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

So after reaching T8 what is the point of US DDs in current game?

 

Does that mean, you think the T6/T7 actually are in a better spot? Id argue, they are much worse than Benson/Fletcher/Gearing

 

4 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

Outspotted by JAP torp boats

 

... and you outspot almost everything else + outgun the IJN torpboats.

 

15 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

My plan is to use as much Free XP as possible to grind up this powercrept wrecks and next time reset something else, or is there some super secret trick Im missing?

the firing from out of spotrange is dead for a super long time, think WG forgot that this boats pretty much didnt do anything else good. 

US DDs are hybrids. They are good around caps. If you play them long range and gun focused, its no wonder, you think they are bad. I suggest russian gunboats or french DDs then. They will fit your/this style. Leave other DD lines alone, because there are people out there, that enjoy them. Like me.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

Outspotted by JAP torp boats

 

So you have the advantage except everything else basicly, even if you have less gunpower. Well Lightning/Cossack boast very good concealment and good DPM, alltho Benson has higher DPM than Lightning.

Benson also has 9,2km torprange, which is better than lightnings 8km or close to Z23s 9,5.

Fletcher has better torprange than Z46 and Jutland, while also having higher DPM.

 

US DDs are jack of all trades. They can do everything while not being best in anything. One can argue, thats its not a strong trait these days with all the min-max ships, but i think they are in a better spot than german Cruisers, which are also jack of all trades.

[XDukenukemX]

2 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Nothing wrong with the US DDs. Looking at your stats reveal that you are just horrible with DDs in general. Your best DD is Kamikaze R, which is THE sealclubber in the game and people play it if they want to have a 75% WR in any ship, but you have only a 52% WR with it. Looking at all detail stats across your DD board i'd conclude that you are simply not a DD guy. You also have only 20% of your played games in DDs and you seem to be a BB main with almost 50% of your played games. The extremely low average damage in DDs also suggest that you simply play them wrong. So it's not the DD line's fault, it's the player IMO. You should stick to Cruisers and BBs, because you perform significantly better with them, at least compared to your DDs.

 

But you are not wrong, the US DDs got powercrept by quite a bit and could need some form of buff. But knowing WG this will never happen.

Well, I absolutely agree that I dont like playing DDs, the real reason is that its 200k XP cheaper to level TX then a BB line. But there is a difference between playing something wrong, yet getting something and playing something and feel powerless in 90% of the games (and no, CVs have nothing to do with the powerlessnes, you can ignore them mostly with your AA silented). Almost all duels with similar Tier od DD are lost due other factors and not the DPM, like they get into smoke and hydro/radar you.

[xe_N_on]

Fletcher is one of the best Torpedo DD and having quite workable guns it is a also very good hybrid DD.

 

However, Jutland is IMHO the better generalist.

 

And both of them don't want to get a gunfight with the Kitakaze.

 

US DD are quite workable in general, however until t7 they are gunboats with high projectile angles and should be played as.

 

[XDukenukemX]

9 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Does that mean, you think the T6/T7 actually are in a better spot? Id argue, they are much worse than Benson/Fletcher/Gearing

well, I played 1 game in each so not really, but I expected T8 to be playable and its hitting me hard to know that this ordeal will be 80% FreeXP grind on other ships.

well, my time with benson will be soon over (supercontainer with 50k FXP at the right moment) so maybe Fletcher might be a bit better (grinded it so long ago and cant remember)

 

The main problem with this reseting is that you lose your TX, so you are inclined to reset branch you dont play.... which also is the branch you are least comfortable playing. I would reset my US BB line but I enjoy having my Montana.

[ForlornSailor]

2 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

The main problem with this reseting is that you lose your TX, so you are inclined to reset branch you dont play.... which also is the branch you are least comfortable playing. I would reset my US BB line but I enjoy having my Montana.

 

Well, what kind of advice to give to that... I mean I hear you, but then again: shouldnt you still maybe reset a line, which rather suits you? So that regrinding is actually something rather pleasent then a chore? Or you just completly ignore the Reseach Bureau (which I do) because I dont like grinding anyway.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

Almost all duels with similar Tier od DD are lost due other factors and not the DPM, like they get into smoke and hydro/radar you.

 

There is only 1 DD which has both smoke and Radar: Black. So unless you smoke yourself up, they cant radar you and be unspotted.

PA DDs can carry radar, but then they forfeit smoke for it, and they dont have the greatest DPM anyway.

Orkan and Smaland have radar, but no smoke. Smaland has insane DPM.

 

The only real threat with hydro are german T8+, Z39, Friesland and Loyang/Siliwangi. But you spot all of them before they are in hydro range, so getting trapped inside their hydro is basicly just misplaying. Hydro DDs are very strong against weak players, because they make the mistake of entering the hydro range. But against good players, the hydro often doesnt do anything, except spot the torps which are coming for you.

[Jethro_Grey]

18 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

well, I played 1 game in each so not really, but I expected T8 to be playable and its hitting me hard to know that this ordeal will be 80% FreeXP grind on other ships.

well, my time with benson will be soon over (supercontainer with 50k FXP at the right moment) so maybe Fletcher might be a bit better (grinded it so long ago and cant remember)

 

The main problem with this reseting is that you lose your TX, so you are inclined to reset branch you dont play.... which also is the branch you are least comfortable playing. I would reset my US BB line but I enjoy having my Montana.

 

The tier 5 and 6 are ambush predators and should be played as such. Both excellent boats, with concealment being a weakness.

 

Mahan is a gunboat and the weakest of the bunch.

 

Benson is a great boat and it only gets better from there.

 

 

I honestly don't understand your complaints about this line. Especially,  since you're not even a DD player. And above all, I don't understand, why someone would reset a line/ class, he is not comfortable playing or doesn't like.

 

I am 10k RPs away from getting the last RB ship (have all others) and I've only reset lines i actually want to play and I enjoy playing.

In my case, the Italian CAs with 17 or 18 resets sofar. 

 

So, my recommendation to you:

You wanna use FXP to skip lines fast, reset IJN gunboat line  which is the cheapest XP wise.

You wanna grind a line? Reset one you enjoy playing.

[Taliesn]

22 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

Well, I absolutely agree that I dont like playing DDs, the real reason is that its 200k XP cheaper to level TX then a BB line. But there is a difference between playing something wrong, yet getting something and playing something and feel powerless in 90% of the games (and no, CVs have nothing to do with the powerlessnes, you can ignore them mostly with your AA silented). Almost all duels with similar Tier od DD are lost due other factors and not the DPM, like they get into smoke and hydro/radar you.

 

What's the point of it being 200k cheaper if you can't make them work? If your plan is to play as your grind them back up again to tier X then pick a line you do well in.

As others have said, they are versatile and not bad at anything in particular and Fletcher is a verym very good boat. If another DD is using both their hydro and smoke to kill you you've done something wrong, like sitting inside your own smoke way too close to the enemy DD, probably. Very few DDs have radar.

[XDukenukemX]

13 minutes ago, Taliesn said:

 

What's the point of it being 200k cheaper if you can't make them work? If your plan is to play as your grind them back up again to tier X then pick a line you do well in.

As others have said, they are versatile and not bad at anything in particular and Fletcher is a verym very good boat. If another DD is using both their hydro and smoke to kill you you've done something wrong, like sitting inside your own smoke way too close to the enemy DD, probably. Very few DDs have radar.

200k XP is quite a lot give you will be spending it on mostly T7-9 ships that doesnt have that much XP gain. its almost full TX level you dont have to grind

 

also for all others suggesting JAP Torp boats.... you have to have a line to reset that, I dont have it. (i would definitely reset that if I could)

[Excavatus]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

They can do everything while not being best in anything. One can argue, thats its not a strong trait these days with all the min-max ships,

but whomever I've spoken to, 

says the best and strongest tier 10 DD is daring, 

which don't have anything best in class.. but the best "Jack of all trades" 

 

So I agree.. Even though I don't like US DD line.. The game play.. 

I say they are extremely capable and strong when you make the right decisions

 

[gabberworld]

4 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

when you make the right decisions

 

yes, and that how also win gun fight with Shimakaze against halland, what is kind off hard todo

[XDukenukemX]

44 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

You wanna grind a line? Reset one you enjoy playing.

Too bad the line is crippled in terms of RP gain, the CV line gets 3/4 of RP and you are stucked with regrinding the XP for planes at the end...

[ghostbuster_]

1 hour ago, XDukenukemX said:

I reseted the US DD line to test the feature and also the ships were gathering a fair bit of dust for a really long time (basically since begining)

So after reaching T8 what is the point of US DDs in current game?

The are:

Outspotted by JAP torp boats

Outgunned by almost everything except JAP torp boat

Mediocre speed

Mediocre AA

Mediocre HP

no radar/sonar (so the better smoke is useless pretty much 1/2 of time, and exactly everytime you need it)

short range torps (except gearing, which is kinda pointless, you need him for 1 game)

 

My plan is to use as much Free XP as possible to grind up this powercrept wrecks and next time reset something else, or is there some super secret trick Im missing?

the firing from out of spotrange is dead for a super long time, think WG forgot that this boats pretty much didnt do anything else good.

 

They are really good hybrids. Very good torps and good guns. They have always been really solid DDs. 

-They get outspotted by IJN DDs but that doesnt mean they have bad concealment. Fletcher has 5.8. Gearing with leg. module has 5.6 which is the shimas concealment. 

-Outgunned by everyone except IJN DDs is just a very wrong statement. It comes down to engagement conditions and player skill. You can outgun a gearing with shima. You can also outgun other DDs with gearing. Its entirely possible.

-Their HP pool is not the best but its also not bad.

-They dont have radar or hydro but they have very long duration US smoke which is pretty good for teamplay. You can someup some allies.

-Benson has 9.2 fletcher has 10.5. I dont see how those are short range. 

US DDs are really strong ships. Like i said it comes down to player skill. If you are not a good DD player, you are gonna suffer with them. 

[tocqueville8]

Imho the line has been powercrept a bit.

 

Back in 2016 or so, when it was USN DDs or IJN torpedo boats, the former would have the better guns, smokes and AA. Worse concealment and arguably worse torps, but a clear role as more conspicuous, more exciting ships. Also, high tiers didn't swarm with 12 km Soviet radars, so smokes were more usable.

 

Since then, they've introduced all sorts of DDs with faster or longer-ranged torps, heals, hydro, arguably better smokes (Pan Asian and even British, after a fashion...), much better shell arcs, much better AA, etc., so it's harder to figure out what USN DDs "are supposed to be".

 

Still, the line clearly gets *better*, not worse, starting with the Mahan (good stealth-torping window) and the Benson (good concealment as well). They still have a pathetic fire chance, and the long-duration smoke is often wasted on the teammates Randoms throw at you, but they're an okay, if unspectacular, line. 

[XDukenukemX]

well, its partly my fault that I should saw better there are almost none T8+ US DDs (most of the time Im the only US DD in the match). Well, Fletcher does not feel any more different then Benson, a bit better as it can only be upteared by 1 and not 2.

Im going to burn rest of my FXP on this and next time reset something different... and given the Ohio requires 3 resets minimum....

 

also from all of you "just do the right things" people, any suggestion of APLICABLE hints for randoms, to make the suffering to Tx a tiny bit more beareable?

[Taliesn]

42 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

200k XP is quite a lot give you will be spending it on mostly T7-9 ships that doesnt have that much XP gain. its almost full TX level you dont have to grind

 

also for all others suggesting JAP Torp boats.... you have to have a line to reset that, I dont have it. (i would definitely reset that if I could)

 

I did regrind once both IJN DD lines, enjoyed the Kagero/Yugumo one even with TRB and no smoke, the gun boating Aki/Kita not so much. Still, I'm only re-grinding the US BB line over and over again now because I can make them work more regularly and that means more XP on average per game played. Enough to offset the 200k difference? Maybe not, but you have to factor in how much you enjoy the games you play.

[Excavatus]

1 minute ago, Taliesn said:

Maybe not, but you have to factor in how much you enjoy the games you play.

Agree... 

 

Thats why I only reset IJN cruiser line and RU BB line over and over again.. 

I can make them work in any tier.. 

 

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, XDukenukemX said:

any suggestion of APLICABLE hints for randoms, to make the suffering to Tx a tiny bit more beareable?

I started off hating the US DDs when I first started playing the game, and I was utterly bemused as to why everyone thought Clemson was so ferocious; the problem was essentially that I didn't know how to play gun-orientated DDs at that time, so I did less poorly with the IJN torp line.

 

I've since grown to like the US DDs quite a lot, to the extent that the higher tier ones are on my 'go to' list for competitive modes.

 

FWIW I might suggest thinking along the following lines:

• You're 'good enough' at everything, but generally not excellent at anything; be mindful of this, as it'll inform how you play.
• You have good dakka, but the arcs can be a nuisance; you also have dangerous torps, but you don't get a stealth window until T7 - this is all indicative of an ambush predator (especially given your average concealment). Islands and smoke are your friends, if used judiciously.
• Be patient; the longer you survive, the more use you'll probably be. You may be out-spotted by the IJN, but you still win the vision battle if they get sunk before you do.
• You have excellent smoke; I find though that hiding in it and spamming HE is rarely of much use, as so many people know how to deal with angry smoke clouds, and have the tools to do so (hydro/radar). Better to use your smoke to conceal allies, set decoys (enough people still try and smoke spam that the enemy will attack smoke even if you aren't in it), and to escape aircraft.
• Speaking of aircraft, I usually take DefAA over engine boost (unless in a CV-free mode); combine that with sector reinforcement, and knowing how to Just Dodge^TM and you can make yourself a less attractive target for CVs, such that they go elsewhere. US DDs have decent (for a DD) AA, and you may as well make use of it; do remember though that most damage from CVs is due to spotting, and try to ensure there is hard cover between you and the enemy surface fleet if you expect a visit from planes.
• As with almost all DDs, you really need a 10 point captain from T5; if you are using the line for regrinding, then you want a good captain for every ship you'll actively play (for my regrind line, that means T5 and up). If you need to regrind multiple lines, do the same one over and over; you'll get better with the ships in question, making it go faster/less painfully, and you'll have better captains available for each ship (and save resources that you might otherwise use taking one captain up the tiers as you go).
• Don't get *too* hung up on damage; whilst you need to do damage to get rewards, pick your spots and only open fire when the reward outweighs the risk (until T7, you will be spotted when you fire any of your main weapons) - before firing, check to see who/what has LoS to you and might sink/cripple you with return fire. Also, try and have an escape plan; you need to be able to break contact when you've finished your attack (or if things go sideways).

[Figment]

2 hours ago, XDukenukemX said:

I reseted the US DD line to test the feature and also the ships were gathering a fair bit of dust for a really long time (basically since begining)

So after reaching T8 what is the point of US DDs in current game?

The are:

Outspotted by JAP torp boats

Outgunned by almost everything except JAP torp boat

Mediocre speed

Mediocre AA

Mediocre HP

no radar/sonar (so the better smoke is useless pretty much 1/2 of time, and exactly everytime you need it)

short range torps (except gearing, which is kinda pointless, you need him for 1 game)

 

My plan is to use as much Free XP as possible to grind up this powercrept wrecks and next time reset something else, or is there some super secret trick Im missing?

the firing from out of spotrange is dead for a super long time, think WG forgot that this boats pretty much didnt do anything else good.

 

They're pretty much jacks of all trades, not excelling at anything in particular, but not weak in any particular field either.

 

 

As for short range torps... I don't know what you define as short range, but I define short as anything below 6km. Medium range as 6-8km and long range anything over 8km. Though I'd say anything over 12km is excessive range. As if the target player doesn't change course in the time it takes to reach... Never mind. :P

[Figment]

48 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Imho the line has been powercrept a bit.

 

Back in 2016 or so, when it was USN DDs or IJN torpedo boats, the former would have the better guns, smokes and AA. Worse concealment and arguably worse torps, but a clear role as more conspicuous, more exciting ships. Also, high tiers didn't swarm with 12 km Soviet radars, so smokes were more usable.

 

Since then, they've introduced all sorts of DDs with faster or longer-ranged torps, heals, hydro, arguably better smokes (Pan Asian and even British, to a fashion...), much better shell arcs, much better AA, etc., so it's harder to figure out what USN DDs "are supposed to be".

Speaking of powercrept, or rather, nerfs, they - as all DDs - started of in Beta with smoke that could conceal your approach as you moved in for a kill at pretty high speeds compared to now (more akin to the Italian cruisers, just lasting for minutes). They were very, very effective fog stalkers compared to the other DDs in beta.

[ghostbuster_]

33 minutes ago, XDukenukemX said:

 

also from all of you "just do the right things" people, any suggestion of APLICABLE hints for randoms, to make the suffering to Tx a tiny bit more beareable?

So, let me get this straight. You have almost 5k battles. You had gearing already which means you grinded that line before. You probably have other tier 10s. You resetted the US DD line to get another tier 10 ship. Yet you are asking for suggestions about how to play US DDs? Dude, really?