Conte di Cavour — Thumbs up WG!

[1MajorKoenig]

Dear WG,

 

sending this as a short message to appreciate that you improved vastly on „modernizations“ and refits! Boy was I disgusted by what you did to my favourite boats Kaiser and König but I do appreciate that this is got much better on new lines.

 

Particularly Conte di Cavour and Gangut come to mind 

 

Good job! 

 

@MrConway / @Crysantos / @Ev1n / @Sub_Octavian

 

 

YAY :–)

 

 

 

 

NAY :–(   —    Imagine someone making a loud „booooooohhhh“-sound:

[HystericalAccuracy]

Bayern and König never got refits, so WG had to pull something out of their drawer. What details are bothering you on the German ships and what is done better on the others? 

 

Edit: Also, isn´t Viribus Unitis just put in game as it was?

[anonym_ziPQbxoJkOE7]

1 hour ago, VIadoCro said:

Edit: Also, isn´t Viribus Unitis just put in game as it was?

Sort of

In terms of looks, nothing was changed

Tho it was originally intended to be a tier IV but WeeGee was afraid they'd create another Nikolai so they threw it up to tier V without buffing the AA

 

[Humorpalanta]

1 hour ago, DEADSNAKE2 said:

Sort of

In terms of looks, nothing was changed

Tho it was originally intended to be a tier IV but WeeGee was afraid they'd create another Nikolai so they threw it up to tier V without buffing the AA

 

What AA? :D

[1MajorKoenig]

3 hours ago, VIadoCro said:

Edit: Also, isn´t Viribus Unitis just put in game as it was?

Yes she is a real ship and therefore got a green “thumbs up” as well 

[1MajorKoenig]

Just now, VIadoCro said:

Bayern and König never got refits, so WG had to pull something out of their drawer. What details are bothering you on the German ships and what is done better on the others? 

I am ok with them receiving something. At least T5 in a limited form and a bit more at T6.

 

My issues:

 

• Kaiser wouldn’t need a refit AT ALL in my opinion. If you want you could have added a couple of auto cannons against planes similar to what the Turkish navy did with Yavuz. She had 40 (!) auto cannons in the 1940s. But seriously, who would refit an out dated ship like Kaiser? And the refit doesn’t make any sense on top. Why a new bow? The ships sailed around the world through all the oceans before the Great War, apparently without a big issue. Most importantly: the refit looks like steaming horse-pile  - it still triggers me. It contains a absurd mix of randomly combines elements such as 1940 range finders and funnel caps to make it look WW2ish but from a design perspective the package is beyond nonsense. They should have left her basically roughly in a 1918 state - same as Gangut. So the only positive I can say about this is that WG seemed to have learned from that debacle.
• König’s refit looks half-reasonable when Stock but the bow of the upgraded hull is again garbage 
• Bayern’s refit is plain terrible and makes no sense whatsoever. We have been joking around on another thread and came up with more reasonable refits in almost no time. 

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I am ok with them receiving something. At least T5 in a limited form and a bit more at T6.

 

My issues:

 

• Kaiser wouldn’t need a refit AT ALL in my opinion. If you want you could have added a couple of auto cannons against planes similar to what the Turkish navy did with Yavuz. She had 40 (!) auto cannons in the 1940s. But seriously, who would refit an out dated ship like Kaiser? And the refit doesn’t make any sense on top. Why a new bow? The ships sailed around the world through all the oceans before the Great War, apparently without a big issue. Most importantly: the refit looks like steaming horse-pile  - it still triggers me. It contains a absurd mix of randomly combines elements such as 1940 range finders and funnel caps to make it look WW2ish but from a design perspective the package is beyond nonsense. They should have left her basically roughly in a 1918 state - same as Gangut. So the only positive I can say about this is that WG seemed to have learned from that debacle.

From a british prespective, givin the old ladies some love and life so they can continue to be useful, i mean the Queen lizzy class was still capable even in ww2 (Warspite). Although to be fair these were mostly internal upgrades and weapon upgrades. Although too be fair im not sure why weegee changed the bow for, and should of made the upgrades between 1935-1940 and made them more consistent, like how fuso and kongou got multiple refits and upgrades through their life time, but they weren't random and ended up improving certain aspects of the ship they felt were needed.

 

Also i guess because of the incredibly limiting tier 1-10, personally tier 0-15 would of been a better range really. But oh well.

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

• König’s refit looks half-reasonable when Stock but the bow of the upgraded hull is again garbage 
• Bayern’s refit is plain terrible and makes no sense whatsoever. We have been joking around on another thread and came up with more reasonable refits in almost no time. 

Ahh, so thats the reasons lol, been meaning to ask.

 

I would be curious too see what weegee would do if they had to modernise her: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/orp-warszawa-01433c9d51a84fc085dc7743eeeb3d68

 

[1MajorKoenig]

5 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

mean the Queen lizzy class was still capable even in ww2 (Warspite).

Sure and I agree a refit on Bayern is a reasonable assumption. But also that refit looks terrible and doesn’t make much sense. 
 

But Kaiser had the outdated en-echelon gun layout and small 30cm guns. Nobody in their right minds would have EVER rebuilt these!! Mind you a Refit costs about 30-50% of a new fast Battleship. 
 

Nonsense.

 

8 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Ahh, so thats the reasons lol, been meaning to ask.

Konig with the original bow would already fine for the most part.

 

Heck even the Queen Elizabeth which git entirely rebuilt did not receive a new bow! Neither did the Kongos or the Fusos!

 

 

[CptBarney]

3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Sure and I agree a refit on Bayern is a reasonable assumption. But also that refit looks terrible and doesn’t make much sense. 
 

But Kaiser had the outdated en-echelon gun layout and small 30cm guns. Nobody in their right minds would have EVER rebuilt these!! Mind you a Refit costs about 30-50% of a new fast Battleship. 
 

Nonsense.

I forgot about her turret layout too be fair, Bayern would of received a refit and/or upgrade later down the line if you know certain events didn't take place.

 

I would build the uss texas 1885 version for memes with modern equipment lol.

 

3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Konig with the original bow would already fine for the most part.

 

Heck even the Queen Elizabeth which git entirely rebuilt did not receive a new bow! Neither did the Kongos or the Fusos!

 

 

Ye, just weegee things i guess. i mean look at the roma sisters (i forget the name of the original ship) they had different bridges and some rangefinder placements and i think a few guns, but just did copy n paste instead.

 

Oh well, will just have to wait for those 3 in either warthunder and/or UA:D

[BruceRKF]

I still have not rebought any of Kaiser, König and Bayern since grinding them years ago because I just cannot stand the look of them. At least the Italian BBs have historical refits that can be used, but those German t4-6 are just catastrophic.

Of course WG putting Conte di Cavour at t5 in her pre-refit state and then Andrea Doria at t6 in refit state also illustrates once again how blatantly op Guilio Cesare is. She would have been fine at t6 as well (while not identical, their respective ship classes are very similar in performance, and so for both classes t5 is too low for the refit version). On another note, the Tegethoffs should be t4 all day long!

 

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, BruceRKF said:

but those German t4-6 are just catastrophic.

Quoted for truth @MrConway

 

2 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

still have not rebought any of Kaiser, König and Bayern since grinding them years ago because I just cannot stand the look of them.

Absolutely - I kept König as I like the ship but it is close to physical violence looking at the Refit. I am occasionally resetting the DE BB line and therefore have to look at Kaiser once more 

 

 

[CptBarney]

9 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Absolutely - I kept König as I like the ship but it is close to physical violence looking at the Refit. I am occasionally resetting the DE BB line and therefore have to look at Kaiser once more 

Weegees Kaiser:

 

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

On 2/17/2021 at 4:57 PM, CptBarney said:

Weegees Kaiser:

 

 

 

Well whatever they wanted to do with this poor ship - it did not work out at all

 

If they would allow modding it would solve parts of the issues though. It is possible to export models into Blender but as far as I know there is no way back into the game yet 

[VC381]

Completely agreed. Cavour is a beautiful classic dreadnought and I am very happy to see her in game in such an unaltered form. It's enough to make me want to have it in port and even play it occasionally regardless of stats or anything else.

 

EDIT: Konig is in my opinion the "least worst" of the others. That one I can live with.

[Maris_Piper]

I love all the old Dreadnought/Super Dreadnought era ships in the game and WG's Art/Graphics on the whole do a great job in portraying them in game, Some of the Stats do baffle me though as a Fan of Drachinifell's channel his article on powering turrets never mentioned that earlier Royal Bavy Battleship turrets were pushed around by very weak Hamsters hence BS 72 second traverse 

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, VC381 said:

EDIT: Konig is in my opinion the "least worst" of the others. That one I can live with.

Agree on that part - hence why I left her out of my thumbs downs. Although it would probably be an easy fix to replace her bow with her actual one! Which would in my opinion lift  her into the “OK” category 

[VC381]

3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Agree on that part - hence why I left her out of my thumbs downs. Although it would probably be an easy fix to replace her bow with her actual one! Which would in my opinion lift  her into the “OK” category 

 

She has her original bow in A hull. But I don't mind that. The Germans put Atlantic bow on absolutely everything, it is a logical assumption that if e.g. Konig survived to be used in WWII, this change would be made.

[1MajorKoenig]

51 minutes ago, VC381 said:

 

She has her original bow in A hull. But I don't mind that. The Germans put Atlantic bow on absolutely everything, it is a logical assumption that if e.g. Konig survived to be used in WWII, this change would be made.

But it doesn’t make any sense on that ship. Even on Queen Elizabeth, Revenge, Fuso or Kongo they didn’t do it! Neither did the Americans.

 

It is a waste of money and either waste of weight or a relatively large structural change to the ship. 
 

It is plain nonsense.

 

I may add to that - yes - WG also got Dante Alighieri right! 
 

 

 

SAME FREAKIN TIER AS KAISER!! 

[VC381]

4 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

But it doesn’t make any sense on that ship. Even on Queen Elizabeth, Revenge, Fuso or Kongo they didn’t do it! Neither did the Americans.

 

It is a waste of money and either waste of weight or a relatively large structural change to the ship. 
 

It is plain nonsense.

 

The Japanese changed the bow shapes of Nagato and Mutsu, and added length to the sterns of all their battleships and battlecruisers. You can argue it wouldn't have been worth changing the bows on Admiral Scheer, Hipper or Scharnhorst as they were already built with straight ones, but the Germans did it anyway.

 

And yes they did Dante right, but that one is ugly anyway

[1MajorKoenig]

13 minutes ago, VC381 said:

Scharnhorst

Big difference - this ship had 1) multiple design faults and the wet first half was one of them. And 2) was the newest unit of that navy by the time. Of course they tried to improve it as much as they could. The new bow did not solve the issue though. 
 

Konig though was a proven ship by the time of the hypothetical Refit. And did have neither the imbalance nor the speed that a different bow would even matter 

 

Lengthening the Japanese ships on the stern was clearly aimed at adding speed. But you need a certain base length to achieve anything meaningful to begin with. Konig did not have that length and lengthening it would add anything meaningful to the speed potential 

[Yedwy]

Bow shape needed is predominantly dependent on the speed of the ship, Kaisers and like probs wouldnt need it

[bobtherterrible]

The british ships had a requirement to be able to fire forward with zero elevation hence the bow and submarine tendencies.

BTW i was slightly dissapointed that the a hull of QE is not the WW1 version

 

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

2 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Bow shape needed is predominantly dependent on the speed of the ship, Kaisers and like probs wouldnt need it

Precisely 

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Precisely 

So with miss Hitachi here, would lowing the bow or raising it help her speed at all?

Just wondering as im doing an italian supercruiser and notice venezia has a really high bow, but the tier 9 doesnt. And is almost straight as well.

 

[VC381]

The bow design is just as much about seakeeping, which any no sheer, straight bow BB could use help with even if not going that fast.