British BBs

[Vana_Kurat]

Something must be wrong here. They are ridiculously underpowered. Tier 9 Lion has just 58K life bar !?, ie equal to Tier 7 of other nations ?  And generally the tech tree looks very strange, Nelson should be regular researchable Tier 7 as other BBs of interim type so to say, ie interwar construction like Nagato or Colorado, KGV should be Tier 8 as other BBs of immediate pre WW2 construction, Lion Tier 9.  Something called Monarch should disappear as a nonsense, lets stick to reality guys. Lion was at least laid down. 

[lafeel]

KGV at tier 8? With those 356mm guns? You be real dude, she'd be easily the worst tier 8 in the game.

 

Also you are either forgetting, or ignoring, the fact that not only has the upgraded hull Lion 67K health, which ranks her considerably higher than that, but also a superheal.

[Vana_Kurat]

2 minutes ago, lafeel said:

KGV at tier 8? With those 356mm guns? You be real dude, she'd be easily the worst tier 8 in the game.

But thats the reality. She was built like that, and was not a bad ship, not weaker than Bismarck after all in real battle as we know. 

[lafeel]

51 minutes ago, Vana_Kurat said:

But thats the reality. She was built like that, and was not a bad ship, not weaker than Bismarck after all in real battle as we know. 

Debatable, as Prince of Wales' performance was not good at all.

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, Vana_Kurat said:

But thats the reality. She was built like that, and was not a bad ship, not weaker than Bismarck after all in real battle as we know. 

And this is an arcade game. Reality is the worst argument to use.

 

As for them being underpowered: not really, they are not the strongest of the pack, but they are by no means the worst either. 

If you can't make them work:

- They do not suit your playstyle;

- You don't know how to properly play them.

Pick whichever answer suits you.

[lafeel]

44 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

And this is an arcade game. Reality is the worst argument to use.

 

As for them being underpowered: not really, they are not the strongest of the pack, but they are by no means the worst either. 

If you can't make them work:

- They do not suit your playstyle;

- You don't know how to properly play them.

Pick whichever answer suits you.

Should be noted @Vana_Kurat that those two options are not mutually exclusive.

[ollonborre]

Also, 58k is stock HP, upgraded she has 67k. And while the HP is low, have you seen the heal? The actual HP of the Lion and Conqueror is very misleading. Not to mention best in class concealment.

[KillStealBoss]

The lower hp pool of RN BBs is a disadvantage only in one situation - when IJN torps hit you. 4 of them and you're dead from max to zero. Even taking 2 torps can ruin your game totally. 

[mdjmcnally]

13 hours ago, lafeel said:

Debatable, as Prince of Wales' performance was not good at all.

Prince of Wales also sailed straight from shipyard with people from the shipyard still onboard when met Bismarck.

 

when sunk not going there about airplanes.

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

I love them, when I send them to the bottom of the sea 

[Chaos_Umbra]

14 hours ago, Vana_Kurat said:

Something must be wrong here. They are ridiculously underpowered. Tier 9 Lion has just 58K life bar !?, ie equal to Tier 7 of other nations ?  And generally the tech tree looks very strange, Nelson should be regular researchable Tier 7 as other BBs of interim type so to say, ie interwar construction like Nagato or Colorado, KGV should be Tier 8 as other BBs of immediate pre WW2 construction, Lion Tier 9.  Something called Monarch should disappear as a nonsense, lets stick to reality guys. Lion was at least laid down. 

Actually the initial Line announcement had the Nelson as the Tech tree T7 and KGV as the T8, but the super testers complained that KGV couldn't overmatch cruisers so WG dropped it a tier so all BBs the same tier overmatch it instead, and then they Magic'd the Monarch out of their arses which is a KGV copy with bigger guns and a random 1950s lattice mast put on it for no reason.

 

Mind you these issues with the line are quite minor compared to the way WG designed them to be HE BBs which was one of the most stupid ideas they ever had on par with the new SAP BBs...

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 14 Stunden, Vana_Kurat sagte:

But thats the reality. She was built like that, and was not a bad ship, not weaker than Bismarck after all in real battle as we know. 

Oh dude, you're just a few years late to the party, but we'll have another one soon. Theme: Italian battleships.

[Camperdown]

40 minutes ago, mdjmcnally said:

Prince of Wales also sailed straight from shipyard with people from the shipyard still onboard when met Bismarck.

 

when sunk not going there about airplanes.

Wut, did the baddy pigeons go kaka on her?

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Actually the initial Line announcement had the Nelson as the Tech tree T7 and KGV as the T8, but the super testers complained that KGV couldn't overmatch cruisers so WG dropped it a tier so all BBs the same tier overmatch it

Really??? Wow just wow... Why did WG even listen to that? With Nelson at T7 (and a buffed KGV at T8) the line would have been entirely different! 

 

Just Imagine: a line of Warspite type ships with decent AP, a Nelson at T7 and a KGV at T8? That could have been one of the most popular lines after all!

[Chaos_Umbra]

42 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Really??? Wow just wow... Why did WG even listen to that? With Nelson at T7 (and a buffed KGV at T8) the line would have been entirely different! 

 

Just Imagine: a line of Warspite type ships with decent AP, a Nelson at T7 and a KGV at T8? That could have been one of the most popular lines after all!

Yeah I was trying to find the original image from the line reveal, but the old images no longer seem to exist, but I did find the reference to it being dropped to tier 7: 

And the Daily Bounce page: https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-warships/british-battleships-complete-list/

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Yeah I was trying to find the original image from the line reveal, but the old images no longer seem to exist, but I did find the reference to it being dropped to tier 7: 

And the Daily Bounce page: https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-warships/british-battleships-complete-list/

Yea remember that as well but didn’t know it was the ST’s fault 

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 16 Stunden, Vana_Kurat sagte:

But thats the reality.

Yeah.

Like planes that could not fly in bad weather.

And like fires and detonations happening on CVs and being very very bad for them.

And like three dozen other things but unlike radar and sonar going through islands and unlike health bars hovering above ships and unlike three dozen other things.

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 18 Stunden, Vana_Kurat sagte:

Something must be wrong here. They are ridiculously underpowered. Tier 9 Lion has just 58K life bar !?, ie equal to Tier 7 of other nations ?  And generally the tech tree looks very strange, Nelson should be regular researchable Tier 7 as other BBs of interim type so to say, ie interwar construction like Nagato or Colorado, KGV should be Tier 8 as other BBs of immediate pre WW2 construction, Lion Tier 9.  Something called Monarch should disappear as a nonsense, lets stick to reality guys. Lion was at least laid down. 

Yes the Lion lacks the HP of other BBs. But what she lacks in HP she makes up with that Superheal.

Since the Lion is usually firing HE from Behind that should be OK.

King George V was originally planned as a Tier 8, but she was not strong enough for Tier 8.

King George V is best compared to the Florida a North Carolina Design that is also at Tier 7.

The Second London Naval Treaty restricted the Gun Size to 356mm (14 inch)

The British could not wait, because they desperatly need some new fast Battleships.

So they started with the Building.

The US waited until a new Treaty allowed Guns up to 16 inches and then started with the North Carolina Class.

This means Nelson had to be a FeeXP Ship

Monarch is a King George V Design with 381mm (15 inch) Guns.

She is OK at Tier 8, but I was expecting the Vanguard instead. Vanguard later became a Tier 8 Premium

[Skurfa]

24 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

and unlike health bars hovering above ships .

 

What? Next you tell me Santa Claus doesn’t exist!

[Chaos_Umbra]

6 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

King George V was originally planned as a Tier 8, but she was not strong enough for Tier 8.

King George V is best compared to the Florida a North Carolina Design that is also at Tier 7.

I disagree with this as we have Odin at tier 8 so the not strong enough for tier 8 due to the size of the guns argument has no weight.

What does change from T8 to T7 is that almost all BBs you will face overmatch T7 BBs while only 3 can overmatch T8s, and between being able to overmatch and being overmatched I would prefer not to be overmatched.

With the HE gimmick WG decided on the ships and the fact that KGV has a raised citadel and is overmatched from every angle I would rather play a Myoko, as it does the same job just better. As while it can be overmatched it at least is small and agile enough to dodge (also it has a 32mm deck which isn't overmatched), has torps and is more accurate thus making switching to AP to shoot broadside cruisers actually viable.

 

If I want to sling HE play a cruiser, not a BB. One of the worst design decisions WG ever did, the competition for top spot is SAP doing more damage than AP...

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 4 Minuten, Chaos_Umbra sagte:

I disagree with this as we have Odin at tier 8 so the not strong enough for tier 8 due to the size of the guns argument has no weight.

What does change from T8 to T7 is that almost all BBs you will face overmatch T7 BBs while only 3 can overmatch T8s, and between being able to overmatch and being overmatched I would prefer not to be overmatched.

With the HE gimmick WG decided on the ships and the fact that KGV has a raised citadel and is overmatched from every angle I would rather play a Myoko, as it does the same job just better. As while it can be overmatched it at least is small and agile enough to dodge (also it has a 32mm deck which isn't overmatched), has torps and is more accurate thus making switching to AP to shoot broadside cruisers actually viable.

 

 If I want to sling HE play a cruiser, not a BB. One of the worst design decisions WG ever did, the competition for top spot is SAP doing more damage than AP...

I do agree with that. I was surprised when I found out that these Line was a Line of He Spammers.

This is why I prefer playing other BB-Lines like US or Japanese BBs and especially German and French Brawlers.

I also have a Warspite that I like alot.

[invicta2012]

53 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

The Washington Naval Treaty restricted the Gun Size to 356mm (14 inch)

The British could not wait, because they desperatly need some new fast Battleships.

So they started with the Building.

The US waited until a new Treaty allowed Guns up to 16 inches and then started with the North Carolina Class.

Nope. Nelson was built after the Washington Treaty. The restrictions on gun calibre came in the Second London Naval Treaty of 1935, largely at the request of the British. There was an escalator clause allowing nations to build ships with up to 16in weapons if other nations refused to sign - notably Japan and Italy. You are right that the British did - after much vacillating - decide that they needed both new BBs and to try and keep everyone to the 14in calibre, hence the KGVs. It was the US that invoked the escalator clause when Japan did not sign, resulting in the North Carolinas. The British would have built the Lion class in 1940 but were suddenly more in need of smaller ships. They actually revised the Lion design later in the war and it's that one we should have in the game - as it would have the Daring type 4.5 inch secondaries (10/12 turrets). 

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 7 Minuten, invicta2012 sagte:

Nope. Nelson was built after the Washington Treaty. The restrictions on gun calibre came in the Second London Naval Treaty of 1935, largely at the request of the British. There was an escalator clause allowing nations to build ships with up to 16in weapons if other nations refused to sign - notably Japan and Italy. You are right that the British did - after much vacillating - decide that they needed both new BBs and to try and keep everyone to the 14in calibre, hence the KGVs. It was the US that invoked the escalator clause when Japan did not sign, resulting in the North Carolinas. The British would have built the Lion class in 1940 but were suddenly more in need of smaller ships. They actually revised the Lion design later in the war and it's that one we should have in the game - as it would have the Daring type 4.5 inch secondaries (10/12 turrets). 

Thanks

 

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

disagree with this as we have Odin at tier 8 so the not strong enough for tier 8 due to the size of the guns argument has no weight.

Precisely. Some decent pen and decent armor would have been enough. 

[peoplescavalry]

21 hours ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I do agree with that. I was surprised when I found out that these Line was a Line of He Spammers.

This is why I prefer playing other BB-Lines like US or Japanese BBs and especially German and French Brawlers.

I also have a Warspite that I like alot.

After the introduction of the AP only RN CLs there was many a humorous post about the forthcoming British BBs being HE flameboats. How little did we know.