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Alex_steel_45

Detectability range timer after shoot. (20 sec)

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Hi

In general 20 sec timer must be depend on ship type, bb must be visible more and DD less.

In world of tanks gunner have perk called Designated Target .

This perk increase 10 sec timer when you spot enemy tank and make this timer to be  12 sec, so enemy tank will be visible plus 2 sec.

Please add to Capitan of cruisers and destroyer's opposite skill to reduce 20 sec timer to 15 sec.

In world of tank player can equip Improved Radio Set that reduce timer by 2 sec,

Please add the same upgrade to cruisers and destroyers to reduce 20 sec timer to 10 sec.

I hope these adds will improve chance for cruisers and destroyer to survive, when they fight against battleships.

thx
 

 

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I agree with this. 

20s for battleships

15s for Cruisers

10s for Destroyers 

I think that would be nice.

 

Nerfing battleship concealment by 20% across the board would be nice also!

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This idea was as I read tested some time ago by WG and rejected on the grounds that the opponents must have time to respond.

Maybe in future they will change their minds.

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I'm not against this, though in order to go from 20s to 15s the skill would have to be pretty expensive, like the current "Dazzle" one is.

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Even tho balancing between classes could be tweaked, i disagree that firing penalty should be lowered to 10 secs. It would be way too easy to harass a ship on the flank for gunboat DDs, and then just stop shooting when the Cruiser/BB is turning its guns. Most Cruisers cant turn their turrets within 10 sec (some cant even reload in that time), so a DD could just stop shooting and wait till the Cruiser turns its guns again.

Ive never played WoT, but i guess these games are inheritly different when it comes to shooting enemies.

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I just want the stupid “once a target diappears you hit crap” feature to be removed. It’s the most annoying aim click..... oh I lost my target 0.000001 second before firing..... and shells go 200 km astray.... only for the target to get re-spotted 1 millisecond later.

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@DFens_666 I think given how things are currently for DD's 10 seconds is about right... Ships have radar, ships have Hydro and it might make those camping BB's a little less inclined to sit back and snipe...

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3 hours ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

if destroyers are having a hard time fighting battleships 

maybe they should consider going down a few tiers 

Nah, since the Devs are BB/CV mains, they buffed CVs and gave BBs dead eye.

See, no low tier gameplay needed! They can suck at high tiers now without penalty. 

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3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Ive never played WoT, but i guess these games are inheritly different when it comes to shooting enemies.

Not so big a difference in gunplay tbh, but there are differences, the biggest difference is the mobility of SOME units and the terrain features (height and pitch angle control for hull down). There's more variation in weakspot layouts and internal layouts than in WoWs and the potential effects upon getting hit are further expanded, but modules going down, catching fire and repair is pretty much the same principle. You just get a separate button for repair, fire extinguishing and slightly healing crew. WoT is more refined in its potential effects in detail in that sense, as you can knock out specific crew members. Theoretically killing crew with the tank still having hp. But that's very unlikely in anything bigger than a T3 tank. Most the time you just either explode instantly or you get chipped away at, while inching your way forward or holding a position to the last tank.

 

There are similar module hitboxes like ammoracks that deal more damage. Engine can be knocked out, etc. Module damage can be extremely interesting ways to take out enemies, like detracking a tank so it spins around if at full speed while coming to a full stop, or simply making it stop so you can circle it (even out circle its turret rotation). But armour deflection and RNG are pretty much the same as in WoT. Fires and repairs work with rechargable consumeables too. Repair, heal crew and stop fires each have their own thing. Heals aren't so much of a thing, making attrition damage more permanent damage against heavy targets.

 

It's a lot more about the side that scouts best or makes fewest mistakes wins though. Maps have a lot more chokepoints and cover, making for ambushes and bogging down lemming trains.

 

Plus corpses are permanent (and depending of relative weight, movable), so imagine blocking a mountain pass with a corpse with the entire lemming train stuck on the other side of a narrow gap one tank could pass through, or using a corpse to hide your frontal weakspots while pushing a line.

 

 

Some of the gunplay is pretty much "get spotted, face the firing squad" though, since people get spotted one by one with everyone having view range and range on them in some more open maps.

 

 

 

 

 

But once you see HOW the players pick positions, fights and move around, you know it's still the same internet as WoWs is on.

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1 hour ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Nah, since the Devs are BB/CV mains, they buffed CVs and gave BBs dead eye.

See, no low tier gameplay needed! They can suck at high tiers now without penalty. 

if a DD gets killed at deadeye range 

they should probably just go down to tier 2 and practice pushing either w, a ,s or d

just one of those will do 

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11 hours ago, gopher31 said:

 

Nerfing battleship concealment by 20% across the board would be nice also!

Getting rid of CE and stealth module would be better, allow for easier concealment balancing and get rid of t7-t8 power gap, but what do i know...

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11 hours ago, gopher31 said:

I agree with this. 

20s for battleships

15s for Cruisers

10s for Destroyers 

I think that would be nice.

 

Nerfing battleship concealment by 20% across the board would be nice also!

 

Must not have good and reasonable ideas.

 

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9 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Even tho balancing between classes could be tweaked, i disagree that firing penalty should be lowered to 10 secs. It would be way too easy to harass a ship on the flank for gunboat DDs, and then just stop shooting when the Cruiser/BB is turning its guns. Most Cruisers cant turn their turrets within 10 sec (some cant even reload in that time), so a DD could just stop shooting and wait till the Cruiser turns its guns again.

Ive never played WoT, but i guess these games are inheritly different when it comes to shooting enemies.

 

How about a minus percentage skill? In place of one of the current ones. Or minus % detection when firing from smoke.... 

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Instead of a hard reduction in spotting time an alternative solution could be to increase the dispersion of the firing ship if it is "late to the party". For example:

 

Firing on a detected DD within 10 seconds of its detection: Normal dispersion.

Firing on a detected DD within 15 seconds of its detection: Dispersion increased by x.

Firing on a detected DD within 20 seconds of its detection: Dispersion increased by x+y.

 

Firing on a deteced CA or CL within 15 seconds of its detection: Normal dispersion.

Firing on a deteced CA or CL within 20 seconds of its detection: Dispersion increased by x.

 

Firing on a deteced BB within 20 seconds of its detection: Normal dispersion.

 

Many dev strikes on DDs or CAs (CLs) occur when the enemy shots have been fired within the last few seconds of its visibility, i.e. when the DD or CA has already gone "dark" and started manouevering while the shells are still in the air. Depending on where the shots come from it may take up to 35 seconds before the fired upon ship can freely manouver again. Increased dispersion of "late" shells could help with that whithout compromising overall reaction times.

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Vor 13 Stunden, Ashardalon_Dragnipur sagte:

if destroyers are having a hard time fighting battleships 

maybe they should consider going down a few tiers 

 

Only chance to sink a battleship within a reasonable time* with a destroyer is to hit with multiple (!) torpedoes at once (at higher tier and full health you need at last 3-4 hits even with Ijn torps to sink a BB) .

Unfortunately, only incompetent BB captains get hit by multiple torpedoes at once without having really bad luck. The chance to hit a competent BB captain with torps when he is aware that there is a destroyer targeting him is quite low.

 

So having a hard time fighting battleships sucessfully** is normal for a destroyer, even more in high tiers than in low tiers (in low tiers you have good chances to torp rush BBs , which won't work reliable in higher tiers). Subsequently, as DD you need to relay on mistakes a BB captain makes (especially in positioning and while he is pushing) and outplay him.

 

* you can sink BBs with gunfire but it takes quite long.

** Of course you can always stay concealed and spam torps which won't hit but that's imho not "fighting" but "fleeing"

 

The idea of only have to wait 10 secs after gunfire is nice but in fact unnecessary. As DD you won't mindlessly shoot open water at any ship and then wait for your gun flare timer goes down. You use island as cover or simply move out of your gun range to break loss after shooting before anyone can shoot back. Good DD players always plan an escape route.

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The game has currently way bigger problems than the visibility system, especially when you keep in mind that we had this suggestion already discussed long time ago and WGs response was it is to complicated for the player to remember the different times of the classes, if I remember it correctly. So there goes that. The only suggestion that will improve the game and WG starts to listen to people that care about better gameplay is to stop spending money in Warships.

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11 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

@DFens_666 I think given how things are currently for DD's 10 seconds is about right... Ships have radar, ships have Hydro and it might make those camping BB's a little less inclined to sit back and snipe...

 

I just question the usefulness of something like that. It benefits certain DDs, which are imo not weak to begin with, because they can be spotted anyway, and are played as such. What benefit do you have f.e. when playing IJN DDs? Will you suddenly start to gunboat enemy DDs because you get undetected faster after shooting? Doesnt make sense, because you still spot yourself in the first place.

 

As for Cruisers, ive sometimes asked weak Cruisers to stop shooting so they wont die. Answer was "im spotted anyway" :Smile_facepalm: Ofc they are, because they are constantly shooting! So they dont even understand it in the first place. 15 sec wont change that, except for a handful with very slow reload, and even they might get undetected between shots anyway, because their reload is 20 sec (or even more).

 

All it does is increase the skillgap yet again, something we dont need. Bad players wont benefit at all, good players will.

 

4 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

Getting rid of CE and stealth module would be better, allow for easier concealment balancing and get rid of t7-t8 power gap, but what do i know...

 

Yep, just give everyone the appropriate value right away. Thats atleast something which reduces the skillgap, as bad/new players can benefit from it if they dont have 10pt captains (or dont skill CE, or dont use the module...).

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Před 16 hodinami Alex_steel_45 řekl/a:

Hi

In general 20 sec timer must be depend on ship type, bb must be visible more and DD less.

In world of tanks gunner have perk called Designated Target .

This perk increase 10 sec timer when you spot enemy tank and make this timer to be  12 sec, so enemy tank will be visible plus 2 sec.

Please add to Capitan of cruisers and destroyer's opposite skill to reduce 20 sec timer to 15 sec.

In world of tank player can equip Improved Radio Set that reduce timer by 2 sec,

Please add the same upgrade to cruisers and destroyers to reduce 20 sec timer to 10 sec.

I hope these adds will improve chance for cruisers and destroyer to survive, when they fight against battleships.

thx
 

 

Thank you for your suggestion.

Honestly in my opinion these 20 second rules, should be applied to everyone, regardles which ship type they play with. It is also part of the tactics to calculate those 20 seconds, if it is worth it to fire the salvo to be spotted for this time, or not.

But true is, that updated Commander Skills gives opportunity for the future to maybe consider such skill, probably for a DD.

 

I just want to add one thing. Even though WoT and WoWs are from the same company WG, our development is separate, so if something is working in WoT, it doesn't mean, that it will apear in similar version in WoWs and on the contrary. We can share development ideas with each other, but still we prefer to do it our way.

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1 hour ago, xe_N_on said:

Subsequently, as DD you need to relay on mistakes a BB captain makes (especially in positioning and while he is pushing) and outplay him.

yes you have to rely on BB mistakes to hit more then one torp per volley, tho hitting one isnt that hard

meanwhile the DD needs to crew up in a glorious way for the BB to even get a chance to fight back 

if your not choosing the time to engage as the DD what are you doing, its all in your hands, all the BB can do is damage limitation 

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1 hour ago, YabbaCoe said:

Honestly in my opinion these 20 second rules, should be applied to everyone

Which would strangely mostly benefit BaBBies, which keep the ability to go invisble after shooting, while cruisers and DDs don't.. so your "opinion" is flawed.

 

Making the gun bloom a derivate of gun calibre would be an easy and also easily understandable solution though.

 

(Gun Calibre (in mm) divided by 10) s would give most BBs a gun bloom of more than their reload, bringing into game the tactical aspect which You mentioned above (but probably should not be used for BaBBies, because WG and reason and money), while allowing other classes to also choose to reasonably "dark" after firing.

 

But as this is

  • too logical
  • too easy to implement
  • restrictive to BBs, as they would need have to use brains to work with it, hence would probably threaten the monetary base upon WGs game comcept is set upon

we never see anything like that....

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3 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Which would strangely mostly benefit BaBBies, which keep the ability to go invisble after shooting, while cruisers and DDs don't.. so your "opinion" is flawed.

 

Making the gun bloom a derivate of gun calibre would be an easy and also easily understandable solution though.

 

(Gun Calibre (in mm) divided by 10) s would give most BBs a gun bloom of more than their reload, bringing into game the tactical aspect which You mentioned above (but probably should not be used for BaBBies, because WG and reason and money), while allowing other classes to also choose to reasonably "dark" after firing.

 

But as this is

  • too logical
  • too easy to implement
  • restrictive to BBs, as they would need have to use brains to work with it, hence would probably threaten the monetary base upon WGs game comcept is set upon

we never see anything like that....

Ok so by your plan. A Yamato would have 46second gun bloom a thundered 45seconds, a Des moines 20 seconds, worcester would have 15 seconds, Smolensk 13 seconds, and all dds would be around 10-13seconds. 

So I am a bit conflicted on this.

 

On the one hand having less gun bloom for dds would possibly incentivize them to use their guns and actually hunt other dds The downside here is that once counter fire starts you get 1 shot and then the dd stops shooting and disappears. That is extremely powerful defensively.

 

For a battleship this is also pretty punishing. As stated 38seconds-46 seconds, yes I know their is a bigger one. That feels extremely punishing and will only foster the camping ideology. 

 

For Super cruisers 30-31 second bloom time is HE death time. As that means more time exposed after a shot and thus more likely to burn.

 

For regular cruisers this doesnt really change much as 209=20.9 so it is a minor nerf. This is already a class that is being extremely punished in this new meta and would suffer yet still.

 

For light cruisers all I have to say is Smolensk. Smolensk would be able to open water gunboat with greater ease under this system as 13 seconds is nice. All they would have to do is wait for a bb to fire launch off 3 salvos turn run away and go dark before the bb could ever return fire.

 

For DDs this 128 is 12 seonds which as stated before is pretty insane. It gets worse when you look at IJN DDs and DARING.

 

TLDR; DDs would be harder to deal with, and Smolensk can troll harder.

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4 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

Instead of a hard reduction in spotting time an alternative solution could be to increase the dispersion of the firing ship if it is "late to the party". For example:

 

Firing on a detected DD within 10 seconds of its detection: Normal dispersion.

Firing on a detected DD within 15 seconds of its detection: Dispersion increased by x.

Firing on a detected DD within 20 seconds of its detection: Dispersion increased by x+y.

 

Firing on a deteced CA or CL within 15 seconds of its detection: Normal dispersion.

Firing on a deteced CA or CL within 20 seconds of its detection: Dispersion increased by x.

 

Firing on a deteced BB within 20 seconds of its detection: Normal dispersion.

 

Many dev strikes on DDs or CAs (CLs) occur when the enemy shots have been fired within the last few seconds of its visibility, i.e. when the DD or CA has already gone "dark" and started manouevering while the shells are still in the air. Depending on where the shots come from it may take up to 35 seconds before the fired upon ship can freely manouver again. Increased dispersion of "late" shells could help with that whithout compromising overall reaction times.

 

I don’t agree.

 

In my opinion the dispersion should be the same no matter what, even when shooting at a patch of water (with no target) the dispersion should be as targetting something.

 

First of all, it makes no sense that gunners need a target to place a salvo in a location, it’s about giving all guns the same firing solution.

 

Second.... It’s just stupid (best argument)

 

Then it would be appreciated if they look more into how aiming is handled against targetted ships, cause I think we all had entire salvos go over under targets, and I even have a few destroyers that seem to be way off shooting a certain ships when leading them, like 1 mm too low, and everything goes in the water, 1 mm up and everything goes over... there’s something not completely right when leading ships.

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