Respond to DD influence how?

[COPlUM]

How do you guys deal with the enormous influence DDs have on the match? I'm finding it harder and harder to play cruisers and battleships because the outcome of a match is almost entirely determined by whichever team has competent DDs, I don't like being at the mercy of someone else, for the most part I just play destroyers now to actually enjoy myself, but when I do play cruisers or battleships - it's changing the way I play in various ways :

 

DDs on my team die early or leave flank for "muh flanking torpedo" enemy team has all the caps => This is a loss => Stop doing things to win, just pad damage numbers and hope it's over quick.

Enemy DDs die early, my team has all the caps => This is a win => Play super aggressive to get some damage done before the match is over, hope some of your teammates die so you have time to do some damage.

 

It's influencing me to the point where if I see potato DDs on my team, I don't even bother getting in good positions to radar anymore, because I know they won't win their DD vs DD duel even if they are smoked up and the enemy DD is lit up by radar, they likely won't even shoot the enemy DD when they are safe and smoked up while the enemy DD is radared. And if I get myself into a good position to provide radar coverage, that's usually a bad position to kite away from and farm in the (inevitable) loss.

Lately when the enemy team has a very good DD that's obviously doing what needs to be done for a win, I will chase it with radar, even if I know it will cost me my ship, because in the back of my mind I know, if that thing lives, we lose anyway. I'm noticing in my own behaviour that it's gotten a bit silly to the point where I see a radar cruiser on 6K HP and a full HP BB, if my DDs are potato, I will farm the battleship, obviously this is moronic but hey, more damage, winning was never an option anyway.

Basically

Enemy DDs good, your DDs bad => Farm damage, stop trying to win
Your DDs good, enemy DDs bad =>  Charge in like a maniac to do damage before the time is up
Enemy has a superunicum DD => Charge into him like a maniac to kill it knowing full well you will die

Is this a normal way to respond? If not, how do you respond? It's even making me appreciate competent CVs in a weird way because competent CV can at least partially fill the role of several dead potato DDs.

The only games I enjoy in cruisers or battleships is when both teams have potato DDs or both teams have competent DDs, I can't remember a match where one team lost their DDs early and it was fun, for anyone, not for the team steamrolling or the team getting steamrolled.

I'm thinking maybe play DD exclusively solo and play other ship classes only when in division with a good CV or DD?

[AgarwaenME]

Nerf BBs. That's your answer.

Whenever BBs gets more buffs (direct or indirect) it leaves the ships that can survive the enduring BB meta as top dogs.

 

Though really the only reason DDs can have this impact is the utter incompetence by your average BBaby.

[mdjmcnally]

I tend to try and fire on a dd when I can but is very dependent on it being spotted.

which comes back to how good your own teams dd is or there dd being bad.

 

i don’t try and charge in but will fire across the map on fire and Hope sometimes just to put shells around the dd on the basis that if people fling enough then some will hit,

 

not sure if bb players grew or dd players shrunk but certainly less to be seen in matches and even fewer what would say are good,

 

If I have to play a dd for mission then play it in co-op so not quite so bad as I really suck at dd play.

[MrWastee]

hmmm.... any dd is only as good, as bad the others wasd is so to say... "respond to dd influence" on a note is kind of a funny title, as all the odds are on his side (xcept concealment). so, i can conclude for myself: dd still is hardest to master, while not necessarily most to gain. now excuse, gotta shrugg off those 2 dd hulls which i just murdered off my fuso

[Hirohito]

Well, I said it before and I'll say it again - promoting a passive sniping playstyle through Dead Eye was a buff more to DDs than to anything else.
With BBs (and as a consequence, cruisers) sitting so far back, we DDs now have the room to contest caps, zone out enemy ships and take map space as we see fit.
Good thing they nerfed BFT imo, as DD hunters are otherwise having a field day in the average Dead Eye BB game now.

[Hirohito]

27 minutes ago, mdjmcnally said:

I tend to try and fire on a dd when I can but is very dependent on it being spotted.

which comes back to how good your own teams dd is or there dd being bad.

This is very true.
Some DD captains have claimed on these forums that "Dead Eye kills DDs", but no - it only kills bad DDs.

A bad DD will get hit by those accurate shots, but conversely a good DD will have a very easy time juking those same BB shells that have flight times upwards of 10 seconds or more (due to how far they sit back).

[arquata2019_]

3 minuti fa, Hirohito ha scritto:

This is very true.
Some DD captains have claimed on these forums that "Dead Eye kills DDs", but no - it only kills bad DDs.

A bad DD will get hit by those accurate shots, but conversely a good DD will have a very easy time juking those same BB shells that have flight times upwards of 10 seconds or more (due to how far they sit back).

hey emperor hirohito, wanna send some glorious cvs to the OP so it sees that cvs are more powerful than dds?

cheers,

your sincerely,

Friend of emperor Hirohito

[Altsak]

9 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

a good DD will have a very easy time juking those same BB shells that have flight times upwards of 10 seconds or more (due to how far they sit back).

 

No, not really. A bad  backline sniping deadeye BB shoots badly and you occasionally juke in into those poorly aimed BB shells with your DD. That's half of the HP gone in an instant.

 

If you want DDs to have less influence on match outcome, you need to incentivize the BBs to push.

 

 

[The_Norwood]

As the BBs get torped by DDs they can't see, burned to death by cruisers behind islands they can't even shoot and tied in knots by the CVs focussing them all damn game, you might want to consider getting the  glaring problems with the game sorted if you want BBs to push. Push at the wrong time and you are just an XP pinata that will die in seconds. Unfortunately, with the terrible cv rework and now the terrible captain rework, there is now never a right time to push.

[OldPappy]

Long range accurate sniping bbs has killed off much of the cruiser play I used to enjoy. I suck at playing bbs and also find it boring and I sincerely detest cvs. So I play almost 90% dds now with increasing irritation about the moronic bbs at b and i lines. Long range torp dds is the name of the game. 
I am at best an average player with a tendency to get tunnelvisioned so in one game I die right away, and the next I do everything right. 
Teamplay is less rewarded than damage focus so it depends on my mood which I choose. Normally damage. 😊

[Hirohito]

7 minutes ago, Altsak said:

 

No, not really. A bad  backline sniping deadeye BB shoots badly and you occasionally juke in into those poorly aimed BB shells with your DD. That's half of the HP gone in an instant.

 

It can happen occasionally, but generally I have no issue juking BBs that sit 13kms + out.
When a Thunderer for instance fires from that distance, you can tell quite early whether or not the shot is heading in front or behind you (depending on how you correct the speed) due to the flight time at those ranges.
And since a lot of BBs do sit quite far out now, it gives less overall BB fire support to the enemy DD when you engage him.

[Padds01]

they could introduce a class that makes DD have to be carefull rather than having an unbreakable stealth field they never have to loose there might be something that could spot them and make it dangerous to go off alone.. oh wait nm

[COPlUM]

Why is this now about BBs not pushing, I wanted to know how people deal with DDs that explode in the 95th second. Its demoralizing in a way potato cruisers and BBs on your team are not, because you dont depend on them to play a decent match.

[GraySlayer]

2 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

how do you respond?

I'm the one torping you :)

Soz..

[Humorpalanta]

I see it is time for triple Shima or triple Halland divisions. :D

[arttuperkunas]

As a BB main, I am struggling with this, and trying to learn how to DD. Tired of having so little influence on the match outcome. I mean I’m sure a unicum can swing matches even playing a BB, but I don’t have those superpowers.

[Verblonde]

16 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I wanted to know how people deal with DDs that explode in the 95th second.

Play DDs yourself. The best way to ensure DD competence is to bring it yourself.

 

Besides that, when playing fatties, ignore the opposing BBs (unless there is nothing else to shoot at), particularly if they're 'Deadeyes', and focus your fire on opposing radars and DDs. Your DDs have the best chance of being of being of use to you if they can can survive more than half a minute past first contact, and that's a lot more likely if all available friendlies are trying to kill their key predators.

[Verblonde]

1 minute ago, arttuperkunas said:

Tired of having so little influence on the match outcome.

You can have a lot of influence still, but it isn't easy (I really struggle to play BBs well), and it does require putting yourself in harm's way:

• Anything that - in the early stages at least - that's focusing on BBs (unless they're a Dev Strike waiting to happen due to broadsiding, or something like that) is wasting their fire; a BB is most influential by blasting things that can tip the balance of the game - this usually means radars and DDs.
• Most opposing players won't know this, so give them something to shoot at; everyone that is shooting at you isn't shooting a more valuable target. You want to be tanking.
• Pick your spots though, you aren't much use if you get blown to bits right away and/or burned alive; arrange yourself such that you can break contact and heal (fire damage, in particular is 100% healable, of course).
• You're after a balance; push too hard and you'll get scragged, but play 'Deadeye' and the opposition can largely ignore you.

With the addition of Deadeye, I've found that the difference between a decent (or better) BB player, and a poorer one is even more pronounced; playing full 'Deadeye' removes the BB's direct influence from the game, whereas being a direct threat from roughly surface detection distance forces the opposition to react to you, and that helps take some of the initiative away from those opponents.

 

This is the perspective of a DD main though; when I see 'Deadeye' BBs, I usually chuckle to myself, as that's usually an effective mission kill right there, and I didn't even have to do anything to get it. A BB that closes to a more intelligent range is clearly a threat and requires some attention, which might easily mean I'll miss something sneaker that's stalking me...

[Fatal_Ramses]

Pretty much dropped cruisers 4 to 5 months ago and been concentrating on playing Anti-DD DDs or hybrid DDs.

Once the DDs are sunk it dont matter what torps you have cause most of the BBs are just sitting still and Cruisers tend to be sunk when the DDs are  hunted down.

[MrWastee]

56 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Why is this now about BBs not pushing, I wanted to know how people deal with DDs that explode in the 95th second. Its demoralizing in a way potato cruisers and BBs on your team are not, because you dont depend on them to play a decent match.

newsflash: if that's ur perception u might doin something wrong! u do not depend on ur dd's. u do depend on urself.... play for the team, that simple. if that means to risk ur hp against a dd, go for it and murder him. coz, if done halfway right (no one always gets do suceed ofc....), he doesnt stand a chance...

 

tldr: when u do depend on ur dd's, u're doin something wrong.

2cts

[DFens_666]

2 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I'm thinking maybe play DD exclusively solo and play other ship classes only when in division with a good CV or DD? 

 

Thats probably the best idea... since i dont play solo (for health reasons ) i pretty much either play the DD myself or if someone else in the div picks then DD than i pick BB or Cruiser.

Even with competent DDs, you can still lose if your BBs decide to hang so far back to stop the Cruisers from advancing. What you gonna do as a DD when hydro and Radar Cruisers just push into you? You gotta give ground and eventually lose the cap and the game...

To me, a good DD and BB are essential to win games. Whether you take a CV or Cruiser as 3rd spot is up to you, alltho a CV can do the work better than a Cruiser. So Cruiser can be replaced, BB and DD can not.

[Miscommunication_dept]

I think the lack of cruisers is what keeps destroyers strong. The lack of cruisers seems to be because there are so many battleships.

There are so many battleships because they are such reliable damage dealers that one can play poorly, farming damage and  when they lose, thinking the rest of their team are potatoes!

[GraySlayer]

Speaking as the DD main here this is what I want.

I want my BBs to blast the enemy radar and cruisers to oblivion
I don't want them to even look at the enemy BBs unless they present a big fat side. I want them to shoot my main threats.
I want my cruisers to support me around 7 to 8km behind me to blast the enemy DDs to oblivion when I spot them

This is what i'm looking for in a team and with this I can work wonders. Without it and it's hard even for a good DD player to carry as he can get pushed around and forced to give ground. With it and yeah a good DD player will ensure all their dds end up toast and you get caps and win.
 

[GulvkluderGuld]

DD player here for the same reasons as you outline (and I enjoy the playstyle).

Havn't played Cruisers voluntarily for over a year except in CBs (and grinding various new lines) - reason being they're mostly trash at winning (russians and supercruisers exempted)

The only BB i play regularly is Jean Bart, which is very good at changing playstyle and get into super aggressive island-positions and have a huge impact on the match.

Still maintain 60% winrate after the patch. If anything, deadeye made it stronger since i added a total of 17% improved dispersion instead of running secondary module. 

 

3 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

How do you guys deal with the enormous influence DDs have on the match? I'm finding it harder and harder to play cruisers and battleships because the outcome of a match is almost entirely determined by whichever team has competent DDs, I don't like being at the mercy of someone else, for the most part I just play destroyers now to actually enjoy myself, but when I do play cruisers or battleships - it's changing the way I play in various ways :

This happened to me after the first ranked season 4 years ago.

Nothing new, just normal player development that means your situational awareness increases in game.

3 hours ago, AgarwaenME said:

Nerf BBs. That's your answer.

Whenever BBs gets more buffs (direct or indirect) it leaves the ships that can survive the enduring BB meta as top dogs.

Honestly, this is part of the solution. We all know what WG will do though 

 

What you can do as BB player is learn to play on the razors edge of you detection range or use island to go undetected (works best with JB). @Verblonde really said it best:

42 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

You can have a lot of influence still, but it isn't easy (I really struggle to play BBs well), and it does require putting yourself in harm's way:

• Anything that - in the early stages at least - that's focusing on BBs (unless they're a Dev Strike waiting to happen due to broadsiding, or something like that) is wasting their fire; a BB is most influential by blasting things that can tip the balance of the game - this usually means radars and DDs.
• Most opposing players won't know this, so give them something to shoot at; everyone that is shooting at you isn't shooting a more valuable target. You want to be tanking.
• Pick your spots though, you aren't much use if you get blown to bits right away and/or burned alive; arrange yourself such that you can break contact and heal (fire damage, in particular is 100% healable, of course).
• You're after a balance; push too hard and you'll get scragged, but play 'Deadeye' and the opposition can largely ignore you.

With the addition of Deadeye, I've found that the difference between a decent (or better) BB player, and a poorer one is even more pronounced; playing full 'Deadeye' removes the BB's direct influence from the game, whereas being a direct threat from roughly surface detection distance forces the opposition to react to you, and that helps take some of the initiative away from those opponents.

 

[Camperdown]

8 minutes ago, GraySlayer said:

Speaking as the DD main here this is what I want.

I want my BBs to blast the enemy radar and cruisers to oblivion
I don't want them to even look at the enemy BBs unless they present a big fat side. I want them to shoot my main threats.
I want my cruisers to support me around 7 to 8km behind me to blast the enemy DDs to oblivion when I spot them

This is what i'm looking for in a team and with this I can work wonders. Without it and it's hard even for a good DD player to carry as he can get pushed around and forced to give ground. With it and yeah a good DD player will ensure all their dds end up toast and you get caps and win.
 

Dis.

I can't for my life understand why BBs keep farming other BaBBies while (radar) cruisers are spotted. 

Earlier today I had a game where a Seattle was dominating a cap behind an island. A DM on my team was so scared he did not even dare to get into radar range.

After 10 minutes the Seattle did not care to shelter behind the islands any more. He entered the cap in full sight and lived for several minutes. Any BB could have devstruck him but nobody even bothered 

What's wrong with these people?