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DFens_666

FP or Extra Heal

FP or Extra Heal  

79 members have voted

  1. 1. If you have to choose, would you take FP or the extra heal skill on non-russian BBs?

    • Fire Prevention Expert
      59
    • Emergency Repair Expert
      20

45 comments in this topic

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[CHEFT]
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I wanna see what other people think of this. I wanna exclude russian BBs here, because i think for them its obvious you want extra heal/DCP. Also RN BBs have to be looked at seperately because of their superheal.

So if you need to choose, f.e. if you take Deadeye and CE, you can only take either. Or if you skill for secondaries, you might only take either of the 2. Previously, taking SI had ofc the benefit of being a 3pt skill and it also gave extra charge for all other consumables. And it didnt interfere with other skills, because you still could take 3x4pt skills.

 

So here are my thoughts on it:

 

- FP provides a permanent benefit. Its basicly guaranteed that you can see that benefit every game, because getting shot at by HE happens all the time. Everyone targets the superstructure anyway, so its rather easy to get 2 fires there, and small caliber HE shells can do that without sacrificing damage. Unlike shooting Bow/Stern, which might cause HE shells to shatter, so you wont deal damage when trying to start a fire.

- extra heal does only provide a small permanent benefit: 10% longer heal/DCP. 10% longer heal is 2,8 sec (or 2 sec for some british BBs), and 10% longer DCP is between 1 or 2 secs depending on the nation. That hardly matters imo, because it doesnt reduce the cooldown, so you might aswell burn 1 or 2 secs longer if you are unlucky, so thats just a tradeoff in my book.

- Having one more heal doesnt necessarily mean anything. If the game doesnt last long, if you die early, if you dont constantly tank or if you take 1-2 citadels or a couple of torps on the midsection, you probably cant use that heal to its maximum potential anyway.

- FP also grants -10% firechance, while this can hardly be calculated, atleast in theory you will burn less often.

 

Lets do some math with heals and fires.

 

- 1 Fire burns for up to 60 secs, but it could also be 51 sec, 48 sec, 43,4 sec, 40,8 sec or 34,7 sec, depending if you use anti-fire flag/BoS/DCP mod in 4th slot. That means, 1 fire can eat up between 10,4% and 18% of your HP.

- 1 Heal restores 14% of your HP. If you use the heal-flag, it is 16,8%. With the repair skill, you can restore 15,4% or 18,48% with the heal-flag.

 

Lets take Bismarck here as an example with 69.000 HP.

- Using 4 heals + healflag to its maximum potential, Bismarck has an effective healthpool of 69.000 + 46.368 (4x 11.592) = 115.368.

- Using 5 heals + healflag to its maximum potential, Bismarck has an effective healthpool of 69,000 + 63.755 (5x 12.751) = 132.755.

So with the extra heal, Bismarck can gain an additional 17k HP under best circumstances.

 

I have to add one remark here:

In a situation, where you would not burn, you cant use the full healing power from 5 heals with healflag. Assuming, you also dont take any form of citadel damage, you need to receive double the amount you can heal in damage, to use the heal to its full potential since you can heal pen damage to 50%. So if you take 25502 pen/overpen damage with Bismarck, you can pop the heal and get 12751 HP back. After the 4th heal, you would be down to 17996 HP, thus you cant receive 25502 damage before you die.

This if ofc highly unlikely, since BBs basicly burn every game. But what is not unlikely is to receive citadel damage, which includes taking torps into the torpbelt. Taking a citadel or a torp on the belt means, you can only heal 10% (unless you are Vanguard or Thunderer, then its 33%) of that damage back. Thats usually somewhere around 1000-1500 depending on the BB citadelling or the torp hitting you, but you lose somewhere between 10-13k HP permanently.

 

Now lets see what a fire does

- Lets say, you are using the Anti-fire flag and either BoS or the DCP mod, which means 1 fire burns for 40,8 sec. This results in a loss of 12,24% of Bismarcks HP, which means 8445. This is roughly half of the healing power the extra repair would give you.

- This means, 2x40 sec duration fires can eat up that extra healing power. There are ofc many situations how this can happen, must not even be a permafire running for full duration, but you might also catch 2 fires, let them burn for 15 sec before you can get behind cover and then extinguish them. While with FP, you would have received 1 fire and only lost half of that health.

 

Ive been playing a couple of BBs without FP lately, and getting 2 fires instantly on the superstructure is not unlikely, even getting shot at by a Cruiser, let alone from a BB shooting HE at you.

 

For me, the extra healing power doesnt seem worth it to me. Yes, in certain situations it might cause a game to end in a loss, when the game is running for a long time, and i have to tank a lot of damage that i run out of heals. I actually had a Scharnhost game lately, where i only had the 4 heals and i could have used a 5th... theoratically atleast. I didnt die, so one can make the arguement, that i didnt actually need a 5th heal anyway. I just needed to adapt and play a bit more passively to survive.

On the other hand, getting 2 fires from one salvo can be annoying in a lot of situations. Not to mention taking a citadel or a torp essentially can make that extra heal entirely useless.

 

All things considered, i assume you receive a bigger benefit from FP than from that extra heal. In either case you might end up losing a game because you dont have both skills available, but i think you might lose more often not having FP than not having that extra heal.

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[SPURD]
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Well I tried kurfurst without fire prevention and it's outrageously painful. Planes come in, get 4 fires before you see anything, planes aren't going away, get more fires.

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Players
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FP all the way. You are more likely to miss it than a 5th heal, it is always better to minimise the damage rather than being able to heal part of it.

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[SM0KE]
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BBs are not my thing really, so I'm actually quite glad they added the extra heal skill (for 4 points): it makes it a lot easier to spec my captains when I do need to play BBs - it's a simple "waste of points" that I can cheerfully ignore the bulk of the time.

 

As stated in the OP, FP works all the time (and is better than it 'ought' to be, because it combines the middle part of the ship into one fire zone, and that middle part is what the majority of players shoot at, so making the practical number of fires you get even lower), and - unlike an extra heal - doesn't lose efficacy depending on the sort of damage you take (less healing for citadel damage, for instance).

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Beta Tester
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Basic Emergency Repairs and Fire Prevention seem to be essential in the current meta. The extra heal is therefore an unavailable luxury most the time. I can't afford it on most ships atm.

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[PANEU]
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i only dont use fire prevention on Conqueror, the heal it too powerful to give up. I use either full tank build or dead eye with FP + concealment on the rest.

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Extra heal + concealment on RU and UK BBs

Concealment + Fire prevention on all other BBs

That's what I'm running right now

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[SHAD]
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The single superstructure fire is so strong. Also, if the enemy destroyer or non-threshing light cruiser is targeting your bow to set a second fire, they are not doing any damage. In the current HE/ fire meta, this is one of the strongest skills for a slow ship that burns well.

 

A quick thought for the supercruisers  as they light up the seas with their four fires....... They only get three heals!

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[TF]
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I went with FP. But on Massa and Georgia I would really like to have that extra heal, the 40s cool down is very strong and allows you to use sometimes half a heal to stay in the green when you have 1 minute to spare... can't afford to do that with 1 less heal. I will probably take both with 18 pts and give up reload or accuracy buff on these 2 specific ships. On others, i rarely use 5 heals anyway.

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[CR33D]
[CR33D]
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Extra Heal is nice if you have a time to use it. But it is useless if you get burned to the death by HE spamming.  

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FP. Most of games ends anyway by the time I use all repairs even without extra heal aviable, FP works all the time. Add all those HE slinging BBs and there is no contest.

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[IDDQD]
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image.png.393028cf9d10c9c0796431d3ed6d3529.png

 

 

dont take CE. u will end up with 14.9km conceal what is coincidentally exactly when your RU BBs special dispersion kicks in. So you can either use Dead Eye over 15km, or super dead eye below 15km and keep all the tankiness

 

/thread

 

on all other nations, take FP, CE, DE and not the heal (obviously does not apply to brawlers)

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[SCRUB]
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I don't know why my experience is so different to everyone else, but even in the old system I never took FP. I don't remember getting double fire on the middle very often. But heals I am always running out of and desperate for the last one to come off cooldown. Of course I am not maxing out the theoretical healing potential, but when I'm down to <5k HP being able to go up to >10k for the last damage trade of the game is the difference between life and death.

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Players
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Russian Ships: Heal. Massa and Georgia Heal. Others: FP. Even on Brit BBs. But there i have Cunnigham. 2 Kills = one extra Heal. 

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[RODS]
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Need to ask yourself two questions

1: How often do u get 4 fires even if you aint running FP ? (FP does come with a "probability of catching fire reduction" which increases from 50% to 55% on a tier 10 BB)

2: Will u be alive to use ur last heal, playstyle ? Will it make a difference ?

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Modder
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In countless of games with 5 repair party + India Delta flag, I only remember a few when I have used them all. For me "SI" is a useless skill.

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13 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Need to ask yourself two questions

1: How often do u get 4 fires even if you aint running FP ? (FP does come with a "probability of catching fire reduction" which increases from 50% to 55% on a tier 10 BB)

2: Will u be alive to use ur last heal, playstyle ? Will it make a difference ?

Your first question would be better if it were: How often do you get two superstructure fires.

This is far more frequent as most ships aim for centre mass at range and small calibre HE is always aimed at the soft superstructure.

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23 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Your first question would be better if it were: How often do you get two superstructure fires.

This is far more frequent as most ships aim for centre mass at range and small calibre HE is always aimed at the soft superstructure.

Whatever..

having 4 fires is no walk in the park but how often does it happen 

I´d say I get to use the last heal more often than 4 fires

depends a lot on the ship and playstyle tho

Trying to "insert" your GK for a brawl, or standoff at around 20km with a LM Yamato (Does LM Yamato even need deadeye ? If not then u have both heals and FP) 

(Smolensk only has 16km nowadays :Smile_teethhappy:)

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6 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Whatever..

having 4 fires is no walk in the park but how often does it happen 

I´d say I get to use the last heal more often than 4 fires

depends a lot on the ship and playstyle tho

(Smolensk only has 16km nowadays)

Not often. However, without fire prevention, two superstructure fires is common for the reasons I cited above.

Fire prevention means you can let a superstructure fire burn while limiting potential fire starter targets to the much smaller bow and aft sections.

 

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[RODS]
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Just now, gopher31 said:

Not often. However, without fire prevention, two superstructure fires is common for the reasons I cited above.

Fire prevention means you can let a superstructure fire burn while limiting potential fire starter targets to the much smaller bow and aft sections.

 

True that

 

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Players
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fp

i dont tend to get the use of the extra heal.

i either get dreadnought or die trying.

and not being on fire helps more.

given i have either won, lost or died before i get the time to use the extra heal.

 

fire mechanics are broken and need rebuilt. negating the effect of broken dross helps.

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[THESO]
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Depends on the BB.
For anything like a Massa or Conq (faster heal reload vs. bigger heal), I'd take the extra heal.
I've never used FP on Massa, and I've never really missed it either.
I frequently burn through all her heals, so there's that, it's not like any are going to waste.

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So many variables IMHO. 

 

YOUR playstyle, YOUR ship, YOUR gimmicks, YOUR premium captain and YOUR flags.

 

You need to mix them all up and come to the one that benefits one skill the most.

 

You will never see me in a Kurf without FP, ever.  Far too much superstructure not to.  So the amount of superstructure is ONE factor. Vermont is another ship.

 

Can I  disengage easy in the ship I am in? Yes? Great, then i don't really need FP as i will have time to use the heals and go invis.  Does my captain skills give me a bonus to AR, like Honore?

 

Am I going balls deep and trying to go against the meta and Brawl? Then FP is the ticket as i'm not gonna live long enough for all those heals.   What is your playstyle? How good are you at managing fires?  What other skills have you put on like BoS and what not. 

 

Fire can be healed and most of the time, the shear amount of HE spam you receive will create more than one fires anyway, regardless of FP?

 

What i did was test all the ships and see how many heals, on average i burned through and went from there. 

 

Bourg, conq and thunderer is Heal all the way as i always use them up.  The Massa I use BOTH.  The Kurf I use BOTH. The Jean I use FP.  Clan Battles BB's will have both on IMHO.

 

So when you go into your next game, see how many heals you use up.  But TANK ladies and gents, like a good BB should to be able to judge it right. 

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1 hour ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

ngl my big brain move is getting 10% closer so I get deadeye for free and run both the extra heal and FP

 

And how is that going for you.  Not well I bet..:cap_tea:

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