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Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel

Tier 3 Italian BB where?

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Hi all,

 

I'm really sorry if this has been discussed to death previously, but frankly I am going to post another thread on this as it's incredibly worrying.

 

Tier 3 remains the only tier in the game which is:

 

- Mostly balanced

- Mostly free of overbearing CVs

- Free of the meta problems facing higher tiers

- Free of the crappy MM facing mid tiers

 

Yet Wargaming have indicated they don't believe this tier deserves a Battleship representing Italy?

 

Ignoring for a moment the fact this game is played by countless individuals who are into naval history, this tier offers plenty of financial opportunities if some basic imagination is applied to the equation. Perma camos, premiums, scenarios etc. 

 

This isn't a rant but a serious question I'm posing to the Community Staff here: Is this being done on purpose? And if so, what the heck is the reasoning for it?

 

I look forward to your clear and to the point response :Smile_Default:

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5 minutes ago, Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel said:

Free of CVs

Weird. Last time I took my tier 3 HMS Dreadnought to a battle she got farmed down by the two enemy carriers in no time...

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3 minutes ago, Yamashiro42 said:

Weird. Last time I took my tier 3 Dreadnought to a battle she got farmed down by the two enemy carriers in no time...

Tier 4 CVs have nothing on 6s, 8s and 10s though; that's my point. A T4 can be mostly negated, even without AA. Their ordnance drops are too minor to make anything other than a concerted attack more than a nuisance. Double T4 CVs games are a problem for T3, I agree. But imo it's less so than most if not all other tiers. EDIT: I modified it to more correctly reflect my thoughts. 

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IMHO there was no Italian dreadnough that would fit to tier 3 power-wise. The very first RM dreadnought Dante Alighieri with 12 x 12" guns seems appropriate for tier 4.

 

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6 minutes ago, Yamashiro42 said:

IMHO there was no Italian dreadnough that would fit to tier 3 power-wise. The very first RM dreadnought Dante Alighieri with 12 x 12" guns seems appropriate for tier 4.

 

And the other Italian designs I have seen from that era (namely the ones submitted to the contest that led to the Gangut class) were..considerably less sane.

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5 minutes ago, Yamashiro42 said:

IMHO there was no Italian dreadnough that would fit to tier 3 power-wise.

There was Vittorio Cuniberti's "Ideal Battleship" design that could easily be adapted to T3. It predated and influenced HMS Dreadnought.

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1 minute ago, Aragathor said:

There was Vittorio Cuniberti's "Ideal Battleship" design that could easily be adapted to T3. It predated and influenced HMS Dreadnought.

Pre dated for sure, wasn't even the first all big gun battleship design. Influenced? Debatable at best..

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2 minuti fa, Aragathor ha scritto:

There was Vittorio Cuniberti's "Ideal Battleship" design that could easily be adapted to T3. It predated and influenced HMS Dreadnought.

But was not realized for italian navy.

As far as i understood the devs, they are using only real existed ships until they were really build / planned and add some original ideas toptier to fill the line, but not downtier.

Considering the range disadvantage T8 - T10 of italian BBs, i'm not even sure if i will start them-

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13 minutes ago, S_h_i_v_a said:

As far as i understood the devs, they are using only real existed ships until they were really build / planned and add some original ideas toptier to fill the line, but not downtier.

I wanted to dispute that, but thanks to Tzoli I found out that the T10 is based on a design by Adm. Ferrati for an upgrade to the Carcciolo class.

Dammit.

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38 minutes ago, Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel said:

Ignoring for a moment the fact this game is played by countless individuals who are into naval history, this tier offers plenty of financial opportunities if some basic imagination is applied to the equation. Perma camos, premiums, scenarios etc.

In the current state? Probably not.

Yes, WG could change the lower Tiers to make them more attractive to players. I even made a suggestion how to do it. But they are content with the money they earn in high Tier, which is a pitty.

19 minutes ago, S_h_i_v_a said:

But was not realized for italian navy.

As far as i understood the devs, they are using only real existed ships until they were really build / planned and add some original ideas toptier to fill the line, but not downtier.

Considering the range disadvantage T8 - T10 of italian BBs, i'm not even sure if i will start them-

We have fantasy ships on low Tier...

 

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26 minuti fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

 

We have fantasy ships on low Tier...

 

 

Change in weapons (ex. Hipper to Mainz) or complete fantasy?

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2 minutes ago, S_h_i_v_a said:

 

Change in weapons (ex. Hipper to Mainz) or complete fantasy?

Complete.

Rhein, Phoenix, Knyaz Suvorov (first BB of the line), Myogi and Ishizuchi never existed.

 

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4 minuti fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

Complete.

Rhein, Phoenix, Knyaz Suvorov (first BB of the line), Myogi and Ishizuchi never existed.

 

I own none of those. So my apologies about writing bullsh!t.

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21 minutes ago, TheBicentennialman said:

will Italian BB be sap only ?

AP and SAP,  just no HE.

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On 1/27/2021 at 5:44 PM, lafeel said:

AP and SAP,  just no HE.

Exactly 😊.

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V 27. 1. 2021 v 15:56 Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel řekl/a:

Hi all,

 

I'm really sorry if this has been discussed to death previously, but frankly I am going to post another thread on this as it's incredibly worrying.

 

Tier 3 remains the only tier in the game which is:

 

- Mostly balanced

- Mostly free of overbearing CVs

- Free of the meta problems facing higher tiers

- Free of the crappy MM facing mid tiers

 

Yet Wargaming have indicated they don't believe this tier deserves a Battleship representing Italy?

 

Ignoring for a moment the fact this game is played by countless individuals who are into naval history, this tier offers plenty of financial opportunities if some basic imagination is applied to the equation. Perma camos, premiums, scenarios etc. 

 

This isn't a rant but a serious question I'm posing to the Community Staff here: Is this being done on purpose? And if so, what the heck is the reasoning for it?

 

I look forward to your clear and to the point response :Smile_Default:

This time we decided to try to implement a BB branch without a Tier III ship, because Tier III is not very popular, and the development of a tier III ship takes as much time as any other ship.

How many of you actually keep in port and play tier III tech tree ships?

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On 1/27/2021 at 4:15 PM, ColonelPete said:

Knyaz Suvorov (first BB of the line)

Let me just correct you quickly on that one.

 

Knyaz Suvurov was never built that is true, but the design is 100% legit.

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On 1/27/2021 at 4:17 PM, S_h_i_v_a said:

But was not realized for italian navy.

As far as i understood the devs, they are using only real existed ships until they were really build / planned and add some original ideas toptier to fill the line, but not downtier.

Considering the range disadvantage T8 - T10 of italian BBs, i'm not even sure if i will start them-

Knyaz Suvorov, Friant and Phoenix would like to have a word with you ;)

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1 hour ago, YabbaCoe said:

How many of you actually keep in port and play tier III tech tree ships?

Tier 3 tech-tree ships include some of the best seal clubbers in game!

 

Phra Ruang is magnificent with a 19- I mean 21-point captain. Torps hit like a freight train, and have a great stealth torping window - still highly recommended.

 

Bogatyr was the the long-time crowd favourite with Ovechkin or why not Kuznetsov -- As a wise man said, "Everyone a gangsta until a tier 3 cruiser pops a flare". Unfortunately you kind of killed this fun now that there's no skill to increase the main battery range...

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2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

This time we decided to try to implement a BB branch without a Tier III ship, because Tier III is not very popular, and the development of a tier III ship takes as much time as any other ship.

How many of you actually keep in port and play tier III tech tree ships?

First, based on this logic WG should remove all T3 and most likely T2 and T1 ships from the game. Maybe even T4.

And in the future stop creating low tier ships.

 

Second, let me check:

T2 - 7 8

T3 - 8

 

Those ships have history and oftentimes are important achievements of naval design. They often have fantastic historical camouflage that WG is refusing to implement and earn money for.

WG however is pushing the game to be limited to only T10 in a sudden rush of excrement to the brain.

 

PS: Did you know that the fully upgraded T2 Russian cruiser Novik represents the Izumrud-class? A different class than the one off Novik.

PPS: Started rebuying T2 and T3 ships that are interesting.

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2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

This time we decided to try to implement a BB branch without a Tier III ship, because Tier III is not very popular, and the development of a tier III ship takes as much time as any other ship.

How many of you actually keep in port and play tier III tech tree ships?

:etc_swear:

 

We would like to play these ships but it’s becomes close to impossible!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

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2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

This time we decided to try to implement a BB branch without a Tier III ship, because Tier III is not very popular, and the development of a tier III ship takes as much time as any other ship.

How many of you actually keep in port and play tier III tech tree ships?

Back in the day, when low Tier was playable, I liked to replay my low Tier ships from time to time.

I even bought some low Tier premiums like Koenig Albert...

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8 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

This time we decided to try to implement a BB branch without a Tier III ship, because Tier III is not very popular, and the development of a tier III ship takes as much time as any other ship.

How many of you actually keep in port and play tier III tech tree ships?

Thank you for the decent reply, YabbaCoe.

 

As others have already pointed out though, I'm not sure I understand the logic of your answer. Tier 3 is not very popular by design. It *used* to be; but then almost every mission and objective became V+; CVs at that tier became too lethal after the rework and we also lost AFT and BFT recently which were essential for making several of the ships 'fun'. All of this drained it of player enthusiasm, not a lack of willing to play the tier on part of the player. Plenty of us still play Tier 3 for fun; drop into a match at that tier on any night of the week (or day for that matter) and you'll find you're not in queue for very long. I realise the earning potential is lower, but to date I've probably spent about £1,000 on tier 2-4 Silver and Gold ships and I know I'm not alone. I probably have just about every Tier 3 ship in the game; I can't say that for most tiers.

 

So while I appreciate your answer, I don't think I can agree with its merit. It makes it sound like Wargaming are surprised about players not playing a tier that WG actively suppressed with the above actions for the past 2-3 years.

 

EDIT: I'm a 3D dev myself so I do appreciate the time that goes into it. But I also realise the money and time players would spend with it. If I were one of your artists, I'd be damn proud to model a Tier 3 Italian BB and they clearly make a financial return, which means this isn't a creative decision in my opinion but possibly one motivated by corporate data...which only ever tells half the story.

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Vor 8 Stunden, YabbaCoe sagte:

How many of you actually keep in port and play tier III tech tree ships?

If the Tier 3 Ship is good I will keep it. I still have a Nassau, a St.Louis and a Vampire and play them sometimes.

If the Grind through Tier 3 and below Ships would not be so extremly Short, you could balance them better.

People would need to play more Games to get the next Ship.

More Battles Played means more Data for the Balance Department.

I would even play Tier 2 Battleships if the BB-Tree would start at Tier 2

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