What's the point in playing a battleship?

[Swen_rudobrody]

I'm wondering if there's any reason to play a battleship in this game. I think that in the current shape they are pointless, besides being large exp pinatas for destroyers and torp bombers.

They can be spotted from the other side of the map, have pathetic maneuverability (ok, that's understandable), terrible rate of fire and accuracy (so considering the role of the RNG, where you can do 300 or 10 000 damage with your AP salvo, battleships are not main damage dealers - but they should be), and fire range (e.g. Kawachi has shorter gun range than cruisers which makes no sense).

[Captain_Edwards]

Battleships represent the toughest of ships with the largest calibre guns it can get. While RNG at extreme ranges will hamper accuracy, once you get in to the medium range window (ie sub 16k) RNG becomes much less of a factor and its more about player accuracy and lead prediction to hit the "sweet spot" for citadel and magazine strikes.

[Unintentional_submarine]

Another case of trying the initial level battleships.

 

I do wish people would just try them a little more before declaring the entire class as bad.

[Swen_rudobrody]

That's the role battleships should perform but they fail miserably. I rarely see battleships entering medium range combat because they get hammered by cruisers and torp bombers much earlier (the fact that cruisers have much bigger damage output than battleships is just wrong).

[nikos13ole]

Having 2 tier 3 BB's and making up an opinion about all BB's.....

 

BB's are fine yes the HE spam is irritating cause they cause way too much dmg that they supposed to do 

 

but BB's have the armor and the biggest caliber guns yes the accurasy is not great buuuuut your are not supoosed to play the snipping game anyway you have the armor and the guns to go close and personal and dmg everything and with the new armor mechanics implemented it's even better bouncing 14 inch and 16 inch AP shells

 

as for the torps planes PAY attetion to minimap and the whooole battlefield you have planes indicators and you can start manouvering and minimize the amount of torps you can take (you might sometimes wont be able to avoid all the torps but it's still better taking 1 or 2 torps then a whole salvo of torps) stick with you team so aircraft carriers and DD's wont see you alone and think aaaa free meal 

 

and just play them a bit more having 2 tier 3 bb's doesnt show the whole image how they develop later.....

[Swen_rudobrody]

Having 2 tier 3 BB's and making up an opinion about all BB's.....

 

Yes, I did try only tier 3 BBs and they do suck which you seem to confirm. And this is a beta test so developers should take note on that and improve these low tier battleships. However, I do observe higher tier BBs in my games and I think they also underperform. They go forward and die before they can even fire a few salvos. Just like scouts in WOT.

[conductiv]

That's the role battleships should perform but they fail miserably. I rarely see battleships entering to medium range combat because they get hammered by cruisers and torp bombers much earlier (the fact that cruisers have much bigger damage output that battleships is just wrong).

 

generally BB's have a longer range then a cruiser...generally, there are a few exceptions. they also have more HP and significantly thicker armor to prevent CA's from getting AP citadel hits on them. to top it off they generally...come with a far superior secondary set of weapons, so if the guy has no, or just discharged its torpedo's the BB can initiate a close range fight.

 

on range the BB's guns are the biggest around, and while not extremely accurate and fast they hit like a truck when properly aimed..so from a BB's perspective its trying to get the opponent on the sweet range where he is accurate enough to maul the cruiser or destroyer...and either to far out to get hit by anything extremely dangerous (like torpedo's) or..if that threat isn't present, so close that the enemy feels every single gun on the ship while being practically helpless to stop it.

 

the CV is the BB's "counter" class, they have planes that can close in and deliver the counter ammo the torpedo without having to sail through a gauntlet of shells, and even if the run fails the CV is in no mortal danger...but he can run out of planes, so rest assured any attempt would be well considered. The DD can use stealth or ambush to close in and use torps as well, but many battleships are only a few knots slower and getting hit is practically a death sentence for a destroyer. the DD at least has the option to use smoke to cover the escape after attempting a torpedo run

 

cruisers can fire at the battleship from a safer range, using HE to get some damage past the armor...but even that requires some evasion as catching a BB's heavy punch can quickly sink the cruiser..mostly only requiring 3-4 citadel hits to sink, while the battleship requires 30-40 hits and fires to die because its almost impossible to citadel. if the cruiser has torpedo's it can try to close the range...but as they lack stealth, this is a road of no return..the cruiser either kills the battleship with the torpedo run...or he is dead.

As a battleship, you counter cruisers...a single cruiser needs to do some hard work to bring down a battleship, they are not fast enough to reliably dodge BB shots in the sweetspot, have a citadel spot BB AP can readily hit and penetrate for monster damage and don't have stealth options to readily escape or approach. all they can do is dance outside of the sweetspot spamming HE...hoping they last long enough for you to burn down.

 

battleships are the only ships that can engage each other with AP rounds for massive damage from halfway across the map being big enough to hit at extreme range for each other, and being the only class that has enough punch in the AP to get reliable citadel hits.

[AgarwaenME]

Yes, I did try only tier 3 BBs and they do suck which you seem to confirm. And this is a beta test so developers should take note on that and improve these low tier battleships. However, I do observe higher tier BBs in my games and I think they also underperform. They go forward and die before they can even fire a few salvos. Just like scouts in WOT.

 

This is the sort of undeducated, self important, ridiculous drivel that causes devs to throw even more buffs at battleships, so no matter how much of a total failure you are, you're not going to get penalised for it.

 

"I'm in a battleship so I should do more damage, take less damage and as easily avoid damage as any other ship".

[Figment]

Dude, you tried TWO battleships of the LOWEST TIER which means you have NO EXPERIENCE PLAYING THESE AT ALL and you make a post about how the ENTIRE CLASS (which has been buffed beyond believe in 0.3.1) is underpowered.

 

 

 

Have you any idea how bad this makes you look?

 

Swen_rudobrody, on 29 May 2015 - 12:08 AM, said:

Yes, I did try only tier 3 BBs and they do suck which you seem to confirm. And this is a beta test so developers should take note on that and improve these low tier battleships. However, I do observe higher tier BBs in my games and I think they also underperform. They go forward and die before they can even fire a few salvos. Just like scouts in WOT.

 

And you don't think that has anything to do with them going forward into a crossfire of all enemy ships, instead of picking duels with one or two ships tops at a time?

 

 

Experience lad, do NOT expect your allies to have it.

 

[Swen_rudobrody]

 

This is the sort of undeducated, self important, ridiculous drivel that causes devs to throw even more buffs at battleships, so no matter how much of a total failure you are, you're not going to get penalised for it.

 

"I'm in a battleship so I should do more damage, take less damage and as easily avoid damage as any other ship".

 

Dude, there is no science here. How can it be "uneducated drivel"? It's just a game. And it's imbalanced which understandable - it's still in beta.

I'm not saying this because I'd love to pwn in my BB. Slow vehicles or vessels are definitely not my pair of shoes. I won't be playing it very often.

It's a similar situation to the one we have in WoT atm. You can have a great game in a heavy tank. I'm sure one can have a great game in a BB. But great and unicum players in WoT prefer mediums and lights over heavies because they can perform well consistently in those classes which is not the case for heavies (they are simply too slow). WoT developers are desperately trying to mitigate that by introducing corridor maps and nerfing shell penetration (a huge nerf incoming). I would not like to see similar process in WoW - make BBs better, don't nerf other classes to death.

[Swen_rudobrody]

Have you any idea how bad this makes you look?

I'm terrified to think.

[conductiv]

It's a similar situation to the one we have in WoT atm. You can have a great game in a heavy tank. I'm sure one can have a great game in a BB. But great and unicum players in WoT prefer mediums and lights over heavies because they can perform well consistently in those classes which is not the case for heavies (they are simply to slow). WoT developers are desperately trying to mitigate that by introducing corridor maps and nerfing shell penetration (a huge nerf is coming). I would not like to see similar process in WoW - make BBs better, don't nerf other classes to death.

 

that is interesting, as a closed beta player of world of tanks I played the game while the 248mm range penetration was the best penetration you could basically have without having to spend money (I'm lying..... ISU was already in the game I just never played it back then). and I always favored mediums by a massive degree, even when their lines stopped at tier 8.

 

this wasn't because mediums where better, the consistency comes from being able to bring your weapons to bear where they are needed. the medium and light hype really caught on later when the tier 10 mediums came around and where used like lights in clanwars (but heavies still form the brunt there), and when the tier 8 "combat light" (AMX-13-90) came around for the tier 8 maximum tournaments (using a light there is basically using a tier 9...as they have the tier 9 gun balance with vastly improved camouflage and speed, but even then the T8 HT was around up to the point the tournament model changed from single to multi-cap point)

 

the fun dropped a lot when you feel like you are gimping yourself when you are not using the 300mm range penetration premium shells and spamming everyone in the face with it. never became a gold spammer...but it just felt like I was deliberately gimping myself by playing with standard AP or using "old" vehicles like the pantherII (the beta panther), and the VK series.

 

nowadays I hardly play it...if the penetration drop is significant enough my tanking frequency might increase again... 

[Massive_Ghost]

@Swen: Did you ever drive a large truck with a long trailer? Probably not, and so you would suck big time trying it, but every day you step out of your house, you see truckers which handle that huge carrier of goods very well. Why is that so?

 

[AgarwaenME]

I'm terrified to think.

 

You should maybe try thinking, it's nothing to be scared about. After doing a bit of that you might want to look back on this thread and remember how you were before you started thinking.

[warspite666]

You have to remember its rock, paper, scissors, this is not a simulator, its a game that happens to use warships to make its mechanics visual for playing. So playing a battleship is a question of player choice and style, if you like being able to hit at long range ( provided you are skillful ), have huge amounts of hit points, have a large secondary anti ship /anti aircraft ability (depending on the class ), understand that good situational awareness of the enemy and your allies is key, then the battleship is for you. If you dont like being pwned at short range by smaller vessels, being easily hit because, hey, those hit points were purchased with your massive, easy to spot and hit hull, hit by torpedoes because you didnt watch your map and dont have the ballet like grace of dd`s or ca`s, then battleships are obviously not to your taste. The great thing about this game is that no one ship class has a massive advantage over any other, battleships are not the ultimate, they are simply a play style choice.

[MacHopper]

Trying the low(est) tier in any line of any tree in almost any game does not give you much of an impression of how the class or the line plays at later stages. Does anyone playing the AT-1 Soviet Tank Destroyer in World of Tanks really "get" what happens once you set foot in an Su-100, Su-152 or ISU-152? Not one bit. Sure some lines sometimes have the same feel at the bottom as they do at the top, like for example the british medium line where the Cruiser III has similar characteristics to the top, such as high rate of fire, good accuracy, light armour generally etc., but on the whole you would be quite exasperated with someone who judged all that is to come from the beginning.

To look at WoWS Battleships in particular, there are a few misconceptions that have to be addressed (with a good effort at not quoting "historical accuracy" which is flexible, at best, in this game).

1) They have the manoeuvrability of a concussed Koala - Actually, you can find a half dozen threads quite easily complaining about how the British and US Battleships seem to be able to turn on a dime and how that makes torpedoing them useless and impossible. The speed is slow compared to Cruisers but there are a few more points that form the basis of this trade off.

 

2) RNG means you can't hit what you aim at or at best you tickle them for a couple of thousand HP - Sure, at long distance RNG seriously hampers your attempts to take out a target with just a couple of volleys - but then it should. This is the trade off - you have the ABILITY to hit targets at those range, but it doesn't make you a long-range deathstar. In my case I will fire volleys at incoming targets to soften them up, but I just do that so that any damage I cause gives me a head-start once the "real" combat starts within the 7 - 10km (15 in Jap BBs) range. Also, if I can persuade a BB captain to use his Heal skill at this point it means he won't be able to use it again during our impending battle. All that said, it is "possible" to take out a target at maximum range, but it has happened to me precisely ONCE in over 600 Battles - and that was two lucky citadel hits made on me in my Fuso by MeanGreenUnseen (I seem to remember it was) in his Amagi with his first salvo. I congratulated him because it was AWESOME (even if I was the victim) because it was a good bit of luck and I like to be a decent opponent.

3) Cruisers rate of fire means they tear me to shreds in the time it takes me to load twice - To be honest if its a pure CA versus BB battle, then this has never happened to me. Firstly angling between your shots will reduce the amount of incoming penetrations. You'll still be hit a lot, but if you're calm and keep an eye on your HP pool, you'll notice a proportion of the shots won't do any damage at all. If the Cruiser is spamming HE at you, then there is a fair chance you'll be set on fire but again if you keep calm and don't use the Repair or Heal abilities straight away, you can generally take care of the immediate threat, extinguish the fires and then heal back a large chunk of the hit points you lost to fire. And finally, if you have kept your nerve throughout all this and have learned how to shoot properly for best results, then you will take out that Cruiser in just a couple of volleys. But all this of course assumes a pure one versus one - and who goes and abandons their team mates to go lone ranger and expects to survive?

4) Destroyers appear 2 meters away from me and just murder me - read this thread: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/14258-basics-spotting-mechanics/ That thread has all the information you need.

 

5) The Battleship Healing ability seems really random and often doesn't give me much - That's because the ability can only heal light and medium damage (and I believe, Fire damage). It cannot heal heavy damage (take note the next time you're in combat at how the different hits come up informing you of what you're receiving, damage wise).

[OldGrandad]

+

[xBamBamx]

Well the whole reason CBT exists is to fix these issues, they test with small number of people I guess in Super Test which then comes to CBT where they can gather much more data (something we never see) and no matter an individuals opinion as they could be either good, bad or average in a particular ship, its the data as a whole which reveals true balancing of ships. Balancing is like a ship going to a destination, it goes too far left so they move it to the right, then to the left etc until its on course, their GPS is the data that's gathered.  Although its in human nature to whine and complain, constructive criticism is what is required.  Can you imagine the amount of work that would get done if devs listened and reacted to every individuals thought of balancing a particular ship this way or that way.  Every day we test brings us closer to OBT and then release, bring it on!

[Xevious_Red]

Battleships require you to think ahead - cruisers and destroyers can just react to things almost as they're happenening. With a battleship you need to constantly be thinking ahead; what direction do you need your turrets facing when the enemy appears? Torp bombers just appeared on the minimap? Start prepping your evasion.

Same goes for what angle you need your ship on at any particular moment, what ammo you need loaded, what route you'll be taking as hard turns will throw your turrets off target (or maybe onto your target), what angle your opponent will be on etc etc.

Most of these things you'll need to take into account while doing something else

[CaptainNorse]

I've played both US and IJN BB up to tier 6 now. And yes, tier 3 and 4 can be painfull. Due to a mix of not having learned the basics of captaining a BB, and because as BBs they are a bit underwhelming (but that goes for the same tier of cruisers as well). But once you're past that B is great fun imho. They are slower and therefore require a lot more planning than destroyers and cruisers. But if you manage to stay with your group, or use terrain to limit your opponents to 1 or 2 at the time, they are beast tanks, and patiently lining up your shot on cruisers and destroyers will often let you destroy them in one volley on medium and close ranges.  

 

As for torpdoes from planes and destroyers: Most can be avoided due with situational awareness and manuvering. The few you do take are often easily repaired and sealed. And for those rare occasions when you do take a full volley of torpedoes from a DD or CV and sink, it's either due to them performing a well skilled and planned attack or me not paying enuogh attention to aformentioned situational awareness. 

 

BBs are great fun, whether you like to brawl as US or snipe as IJN. 

[ReynoldsXD2]

Once you have learned to pick your targets (like chose a target that shows you his broadside.... instead of the guy angling away from you...), learned to stop going for a kill despite better and more important targets showing themselvs (like if you are shooting a BB but a cruiser drives by, giving you a good chance at  his broadside but you do not switch to give the cruiser a package and instead insist of dealing another 3k damage to that BB...) and have finally gotten around to learnign to aim proberly, then BB can be rewarding and fun.

 

 

If your aim sucks and you are horrible at making decisions, play CA's instead.

Cruisers have decent hp, and as such forgive a mistake or 2 and a fast rate of fire so you can scrape by even with horrible aiming.

 

 

Do not go play DD's. thats  a do or die thing. And requires good decision making.

 

[Coenraad]

the biggest issue for me is the bounce chance. If the enemy is at ove that 30deg angle you suddenly do allot of 0 dmg hits.

Also the HE on a BB is very weak compared to cruisers. So if a n enemy ship angles or simply manouvers well you are very much at the enemies mercy. Especialy against cruisers at 8-12 km i think a BB is at a disadvantage.

Battleships for me are best against other battleships I feel. Against anything less the damage is just too unreliable.

I mainly play cruisers though. I am sure things will be atempted rebalanced with the next big patch.

[_DeathWing_]

Played only with 2 battleships (Kawachi and South Carolina) and he already knows everything... 

 

[Userext]

[edited]

[blademansw]

OP, wait until you get to the tier 5 USN and IJN BB's, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how much better they are and arguably a lot more fun.  You cannot write off an entire class as poor until you have got to tier X.