Tier X Battleships

[liwile_1]

Hi Commanders

 

Hope Im in the right section if not plz direct me to it.

 

Question

Where does wargaming get there stats and info regrading the BB. lets just start with BB for now.

 

Regards

 

Liwile

[ColonelPete]

They create them.

 

Some is based on historical figures or designs, but much is based on design philosophy for that line or balance decisions.

[liwile_1]

Was the Kremlin ever build

[Zemeritt]

6 hours ago, liwile_1 said:

Was the Kremlin ever build

 

lol, no.

The only T10 BB that ever was build is the Yamato.

[liwile_1]

The Montana was design and planned for production.  

""The Montana-class battleships were planned as successors of the Iowa class for the United States Navy, to be slower but larger, better armored, and with superior firepower. Five were approved for construction during World War II, but changes in wartime building priorities resulted in their cancellation in favor of continuing production of Essex-class aircraft carriers and Iowa-class battleships before any Montana-class keels were laid. ""

 

Could this be the kremlin. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovetsky_Soyuz-class_battleship

https://warships.fandom.com/wiki/Kremlin#:~:text=Kremlin is a one off,predecessor the Sovietsky Soyuz-class.

 

Im just interested which Tier 10 BB (stock and Premuins) are real(build and or design) and which are fake (if you can say that)

 

So far

Yamota

Montana (design, approved and never build)

 

 

[SV_Kompresor]

Stalingrad....though technically a battlecruiser but still. C'mon it's basically the size of a BB.

[Marblehead_1]

I think I didn't make any errors but this is my list:

 

Battleships:

Yamato - built in 3 examples with one converted into CV,

Shikishima - not named and never built 4th Yamato class battleship with enlarged guns as it's almost sure that last ship will have 510mm,

Montana - planned into build, not started, not sure did Midway and FDR were based on hull lines of Montana,

Ohio - USN never considered serious 457 guns although one piece of gun was produced - WG imagination,

Grosser Kurfurst - one of maaaanyyyy preliminary projects of super battleship,

Kremlin - project although as I remember Stalin was negative about 457 guns and 406 were more possible,

Slava - real project,

Conqueror - mix of Vanguard and Lion enlarged - WG imagination

Thunderer - enlarged Vanguard and with much more powerfull cannons - WG imagination,

Republique - enlarged Gascogne with more powerfull cannons - WG imagination,

Bourgogne - refit of Alasce class shown in similar manner like refit of Jean Bart in 50's

 

Cruisers:

Zao - IJN never considered triple 203mm - WG imagination,

Des Moines and Salem - both built and Salem is museum ship,

Worcester - built,

Hindenburg - WG imagination,

Moskva - there are project of 220mm gun for this cruiser for sure, 

Smolensk - project,

Alexandr Nevsky - project,

Stalingrad - started but never completed,

Petropavlowsk - project,

Henri IV - enlarged WG imagination of Saint Louis project,

Colbert - built, converted into museum ship but scrapped,

Venezia - WG imagination

 

Most destroyers were real with Harugumo, Kleber, Marceau, Z-52, Khabarovsk and Grozovoi as projects.

Harugumo - not sure did even was project,

Kleber - real project,

Marceau - after war refit of Kleber class into 127mm guns

[liwile_1]

Thanks for the info.

So all the ships that shoot the @#$ out of you is WG imagination

 

[S_h_i_v_a]

1 ora fa, liwile_1 ha scritto:

Thanks for the info.

So all the ships that shoot the @#$ out of you is WG imagination

 

Consider that only the US had an industry able to build fast enough new ships based on new projects.

Germany and Japan had not the resources to do that.

UK was surrounded by german subs, their industry never got enough materials.

France was occupied as war started, all their plans were canceled during occupation, and was liberated when Germany was only fighting a sub war in the atlantic.

Russia needed to keep open the route USA - Murmansk, and more than Torpitz - hidden in a norvegian fjord - their biggest  problem were the subs.

 

Not all nations were able to build T-X ships. Lots were simply planned or never completed.

[Tzoli]

Oh and you will never find these ship names in any creditable sources, both books, magazines or official documents.

The only true names were Yamato, Montana, Worcester, Des Moines, Stalingrad classes. Others are just pure imagination names

 

[1MajorKoenig]

On 1/26/2021 at 3:04 PM, liwile_1 said:

Hi Commanders

 

Hope Im in the right section if not plz direct me to it.

 

Question

Where does wargaming get there stats and info regrading the BB. lets just start with BB for now.

 

Regards

 

Liwile

Pulled out of very thin air 

[CaptainKreutzer]

On 1/27/2021 at 4:02 PM, Marblehead_1 said:

I think I didn't make any errors but this is my list:

 

Battleships:

Yamato - built in 3 examples with one converted into CV,

Shikishima - not named and never built 4th Yamato class battleship with enlarged guns as it's almost sure that last ship will have 510mm,

Montana - planned into build, not started, not sure did Midway and FDR were based on hull lines of Montana,

Ohio - USN never considered serious 457 guns although one piece of gun was produced - WG imagination,

Grosser Kurfurst - one of maaaanyyyy preliminary projects of super battleship,

Kremlin - project although as I remember Stalin was negative about 457 guns and 406 were more possible,

Slava - real project,

Conqueror - mix of Vanguard and Lion enlarged - WG imagination

Thunderer - enlarged Vanguard and with much more powerfull cannons - WG imagination,

Republique - enlarged Gascogne with more powerfull cannons - WG imagination,

Bourgogne - refit of Alasce class shown in similar manner like refit of Jean Bart in 50's

 

Cruisers:

Zao - IJN never considered triple 203mm - WG imagination,

Des Moines and Salem - both built and Salem is museum ship,

Worcester - built,

Hindenburg - WG imagination,

Moskva - there are project of 220mm gun for this cruiser for sure, 

Smolensk - project,

Alexandr Nevsky - project,

Stalingrad - started but never completed,

Petropavlowsk - project,

Henri IV - enlarged WG imagination of Saint Louis project,

Colbert - built, converted into museum ship but scrapped,

Venezia - WG imagination

 

Most destroyers were real with Harugumo, Kleber, Marceau, Z-52, Khabarovsk and Grozovoi as projects.

Harugumo - not sure did even was project,

Kleber - real project,

Marceau - after war refit of Kleber class into 127mm guns

Corrections.

Battleships:

Shikishima - She's A-150 design

Montana - ordered but cancelled later, Midway is entirely different design.

Grosser Kurfurst - There's no design that is like GK, She's WG's own creation

Kremlin - Early project 24 design battleship

Slava - Later version of Project 24 battleship after 457 mm guns are declined.

Vermont - one of the Tillman design battleship

Colombo - Ferratti's battleship G project or atleast very similar to it.

 

 

Cruisers:

Zao - Actually they did considered making triple 203 mm turrets, Zao is real design named "Type A 1941"

Moskva - Project 66 cruiser

Smolensk - project MLK 16 - 130 anti aircraft cruiser

Alexandr Nevsky - Project 84 anti aircraft cruiser

Petropavlowsk - Preliminary project of Project 82 in 1949

 

Destroyers:

Grozovoi - Project 40N design

Khabarovsk - Project 47 design

Z52 - Zestörer 1944 class destroyer

Elbing - Spähkreuzer 1938 design

Harugumo - She's WG's own creation, last AA DD design of IJN is V7 which is Kitakaze.

Kleber - Futher development of Mogador class destroyer

 

[Marblehead_1]

2 hours ago, CaptainKreutzer said:

Corrections.

Battleships:

Shikishima - She's A-150 design

Montana - ordered but cancelled later, Midway is entirely different design.

Grosser Kurfurst - There's no design that is like GK, She's WG's own creation

Kremlin - Early project 24 design battleship

Slava - Later version of Project 24 battleship after 457 mm guns are declined.

Vermont - one of the Tillman design battleship

Colombo - Ferratti's battleship G project or atleast very similar to it.

 

 

Cruisers:

Zao - Actually they did considered making triple 203 mm turrets, Zao is real design named "Type A 1941"

Moskva - Project 66 cruiser

Smolensk - project MLK 16 - 130 anti aircraft cruiser

Alexandr Nevsky - Project 84 anti aircraft cruiser

Petropavlowsk - Preliminary project of Project 82 in 1949

 

Destroyers:

Grozovoi - Project 40N design

Khabarovsk - Project 47 design

Z52 - Zestörer 1944 class destroyer

Elbing - Spähkreuzer 1938 design

Harugumo - She's WG's own creation, last AA DD design of IJN is V7 which is Kitakaze.

Kleber - Futher development of Mogador class destroyer

 

Oh yes I made mistake in case of Shikishima. I read in on one place that her armor scheme it's just Yamato class and her hull is just ctrl+c ctrl+v Yamato with different armament when A-150 should have different armor and hull design? I would definitely want to know what it's true. Unfortunately I didn't have Shikishima ( bought FDR instead ) and after last "glorious" patch I can't now see armor schemes of Armory ships.

 

So Grosser Kurfurst isn't just H-class enlarged and with similar treatment as Vanguard-Thunderer or Gascogne-Republique?

 

Cristophero Colombo resembles in few aspects this mentioned project. I wonder did WWI ship even if heavily modified in style of Giulio Cesare could be TX? Beyond quad 15 inch guns and some secondary mounts she must have changed machinery to archive "modern" speed ect. So far it looks like 20% of real design and 80% of WG imagination which is heavily transformed. It's definitely different case than Vermont which even if her look is based on refits of old USN battleships then she still have resemblance of Tillman projects. 

 

Personally I'm not suprised that Soviet TX were based on real projects as they have access to probably best sources for this matter like Naval Archives ect.

 

[liwile_1]

As per US Naval

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_of_the_United_States_Navy

Midway and FDR is a Midway classCV CVb-1 and CVB-2

But then there are CV that are newer

Forrestal, Kitty Hawk, Enterprise, John f Kennedy, Nimitz and Gerald R Ford classes (wargaming must plz keep then out of the game)

 

Vermont Kansas and Minnesota where all build https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battleships_of_the_United_States

 

Battlecruiser -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battlecruisers_of_the_United_States

Lexington class 8 x 406mm Mainguns they can bring this into WOWS

Alaska class 9x 305mm Mainguns

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_destroyers_of_the_United_States_Navy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cruisers_of_the_United_States_Navy

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, liwile_1 said:

Vermont Kansas and Minnesota where all build https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battleships_of_the_United_States

Not the ones we have in game...

[TohtoriP]

On 1/27/2021 at 3:02 PM, Marblehead_1 said:

Shikishima - not named and never built 4th Yamato class battleship with enlarged guns as it's almost sure that last ship will have 510mm,

Fourth Yamato would have probably been another 460mm vessel as that was planned to be built before the docks would be free to implement the A-150 design and 510mm guns.

[Tzoli]

All Yamatos would be 460mm armed ones but the design evolved as the ships constructed:

Yamato subclass:
Yamato (No.1) , Musashi (No.2)

41cm belt armour 20cm deck

3x3 46cm, 4x3 15,5cm, 6x2 12,7cm which later changed to 2x3 15,5cm and 12x2 12,7cm

Shinano Subclass

Shinano (No.110), No.111

40cm belt armour 19cm deck armour tonnage relocated to improved double bottom and other "sensitive" places like sensors

3x3 46cm, 4x3 15,5cm, 6x2 10cm which likely would be later changed to No.797 standard: 2x3 15,5cm and 12x2 10cm

No.797 Subclass

No.797

40cm belt armour 19cm deck armour tonnage relocated to full triple bottom and other "sensitive" places like sensors 

3x3 46cm, 2x3 15,5cm, 12x2 10cm

 

Of course the design take into consideration the install of twin 51cm turrets in place of the 46cm ones to maintain gunnery superiority over the USN (Japan expected that the follow up design of the Iowa which became the Montana will be equipped with 18" cannons)

[totally_potato]

On 2/1/2021 at 5:11 PM, Marblehead_1 said:

So Grosser Kurfurst isn't just H-class enlarged and with similar treatment as Vanguard-Thunderer or Gascogne-Republique?

well she is apparently the summary of all the design studies and a prediction of what the Germans would have settled for. They aren't quite wrong about the caliber and size, although I am a bit skeptical of the no. of guns. There were no H projects with 12 guns

Even Hitler's dream of H-45 which was half a kilometer long, had the Gustav guns aka 800mm guns, the entire aft of the ship as a CV with 75 planes, torpedoes and going 30 knots with more armor than the entire tank force of Germany and the WW1 dreadnoughts combined, had only 8 guns

 

[ColonelPete]

4 hours ago, totally_potato said:

well she is apparently the summary of all the design studies and a prediction of what the Germans would have settled for. They aren't quite wrong about the caliber and size, although I am a bit skeptical of the no. of guns. There were no H projects with 12 guns

Even Hitler's dream of H-45 which was half a kilometer long, had the Gustav guns aka 800mm guns, the entire aft of the ship as a CV with 75 planes, torpedoes and going 30 knots with more armor than the entire tank force of Germany and the WW1 dreadnoughts combined, had only 8 guns

H-45 is a web invention...

[totally_potato]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

H-45 is a web invention...

I saw some drawing of the ships in some sources. Can't tell if its fiction but seems pretty legit for a Hitler dream since he was quite an oscar winning madman.......Oh wait that's joker, nvm

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, totally_potato said:

I saw some drawing of the ships in some sources. Can't tell if its fiction but seems pretty legit for a Hitler dream since he was quite an oscar winning madman.......Oh wait that's joker, nvm

That was a modern sketch...

Spoiler

 

Hint: It is english...

 

[totally_potato]

9 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

That was a modern sketch...

  Hide contents

 

Hint: It is english...

 

Yeah, this one

It looks like something Hitler would come up with

I mean he also came up with Flugdeckkreuzer

This crap and there are designs for that

I am coming up with a line for this concept to be added at a late point of the game, which is currently in the works

Point is, hitler came up with some nasty crap, so I am pretty convinced H-45 was a dream of Hitler

[LastButterfly]

12 hours ago, totally_potato said:

Point is, hitler came up with some nasty crap, so I am pretty convinced H-45 was a dream of Hitler

 

It was not.

It would appear a "historian" named David Porter stumbled upon a forum discussion about the theorical possibility of fitting 800mm guns on a battleship and mistook it as a discussion about a real thing. Instead of making more reasearch or simply reading correctly his "sources", he included a mention of this 800mm-wielding battleship in a book her published. Every subsequent mention and drawing of H-45 as a "real historical project" instead of just as a joke, "fanmade" battleship comes from after he published that book, and everyone with sources trace back to his book.

 

You got caught in the error of a pseudo-historian who took what he found on the internet for granted.

[totally_potato]

14 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

 

It was not.

It would appear a "historian" named David Porter stumbled upon a forum discussion about the theorical possibility of fitting 800mm guns on a battleship and mistook it as a discussion about a real thing. Instead of making more reasearch or simply reading correctly his "sources", he included a mention of this 800mm-wielding battleship in a book her published. Every subsequent mention and drawing of H-45 as a "real historical project" instead of just as a joke, "fanmade" battleship comes from after he published that book, and everyone with sources trace back to his book.

 

You got caught in the error of a pseudo-historian who took what he found on the internet for granted.

Ok

Still, would be pretty funny to have one of these monsters in WoWs. Then again, the shockwaves of these guns would knock planes out of the sky, and all 8 shells hit would nuke everything in sight, even a small country. So idk