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DFens_666

New skills - will you use them?

If and where will you use the new skills  

117 members have voted

  1. 1. Dead-Eye

    • Every BB
    • All BBs except secondary/Brawlers f.e. germans
    • Not at all
    • Dont know
  2. 2. Super Heavy AP shells (BB)

    • All BBs
    • Most BBs (f.e. not on HE heavy ships like RN BBs)
    • Some BBs to try it out or just for the giggles
    • Not at all
    • Dont know
  3. 3. Super heavy HE and SAP shells (multiple choice)

    • On <149mm caliber Cruisers
    • On 152-180mm Cruisers
    • On 203-240mm Cruisers
    • On Italian Cruisers
    • On Battlecruisers
    • Not at all
    • Dont know
  4. 4. Heavy AP shells (Cruisers)

    • On Cruisers with >190mm guns
    • Only on Battlecruisers
    • Not at all
    • Dont know
  5. 5. Outnumbered

  6. 6. Top Grade Gunner

  7. 7. Dazzle

  8. 8. Fearless Brawler (multiple choice)

    • Open water gunboat DDs
    • Gunboat DDs with smoke (F.e. IJN gunboats)
    • Anti-DD DDs ( f.e. RN or Germans)
    • Every other DD (f.e. IJN torpboats)
      0
    • Not at all
    • Dont know
  9. 9. Swift in Silence

  10. 10. Extra-Heavy AP shells (DD)


47 comments in this topic

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[CHEFT]
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So im really interested what others are thinking about the new skills, and where/if you guys will use them. I left CV skills out because i think its less interesting. Also some questions are multiple choice, so watchout for those. I tried to cover any angle as much as i could, and for something like Swift in Silence i just assume that people probably will only use it on torpboats, because they dont want to be spotted, and gunboats dont want to lose reloadspeed. If someone plays a Kleber as torpboat, then you can just vote "for torpboats".

 

Everybody has been talking about Dead-eye anyway, i did include that, but we all know that most people are gonna use it, but many other skills did get much less attention, so id like to see what people think of those.

Me personaly, i dont like most of them. I think the Cruiser skills in general are rather worthless to me. I dont want to sit back and farm damage, i want to support my DD, so i skill for concealment.

Same goes for the DD skills. You basicly want CE, and i really like to have RPF. If id take Dazzle aswell, id have to miss out on other skills.

So i probably will forget about them and rather go with the "old" ones, they seem to be much more straightforward than some new ones, which seem to be rather situational. Id really like to bring up Outnumbered here, because i think its absolutely useless. First of all, getting that to trigger seems rather impossible. And what are the benefits? More speed, which is a few kts and improved dispersion - most Cruisers already have good dispersion, they dont need that.

Top Grade Gunner kinda has the same issue. It can be used on hightiers on Cruisers, which can brawl in the endgame (germans), but i think on midtiers, its actually much better. Other than that, it doesnt look interesting to me.

 

 

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[ALYEN]
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you should include a "No clue" option for those of us that either don't play certain classes but still want to comment on the classes they play ....

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1 minute ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

you should include a "No clue" option for those of us that either don't play certain classes but still want to comment on the classes they play ....

 

Done

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[KAKE]
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I will probably experiment a bit for as long as respecs are free (and then reset everything and leave the game well alone after the period ends until some semblance of balance has been restored - if that is "never", so be it).

 

Deadeye is too good not to try out. Super heavy AP.... dunno, the survivability hit seems harsh.

 

Super heavy HE/SAP... not sure I really have many cruisers it's good on. Zao and Hindy, maybe? Pasta cruisers I'm only up to the Trento, and I have doubts until you get up to the higher tiers.

 

Heavy AP... Might try it on Hindy, Yoshino and Alaska I guess.

 

Outnumbered seems worth trying on kiting cruisers like Yoshino.

 

Haven't really looked at the DD skills. Dazzle on smokeless DDs might be worth it, but dunno if I can find the points for it, none of my French/Pan Euro DD skippers are above 15 pts. TRB and Dazzle on Yugumo for the lulz? Might help to offset the loss of smoke screen.

 

But personally I'm not a fan of any skill that's only useful in certain game circumstances. I prefer to build for as much utility as possible in any situation.

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[PANEU]
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I wont spec anything that has a trade-off like concealment nerf or gunpower nerf in exchange of something else. 

Thats not how it should be. 

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[KAKE]
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Incidentally, if WG want to salvage some measure of respect after this :etc_swear:show, my suggestion would be to permanently remove the cost of respeccing captains.

 

I doubt it's a huge source of income these days anyway, and it's not as if the game is lacking in other monetization features.

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I did not experiment with DD skills, only tried BBs (brawling / deadeye).

With CA (heavy) i only used the standard skills (PT/IFA, more consumables, concealment) because the new ones are either pretty meh

or absolutely stupid / situational / hard to trigger).

 

The new skills don´t offer multiple meaningful ways to skill your captain. In my opinion we´re left with 1 "competitive" and maybe a meme build option.

 

So i am pretty sure this whole rework is just a badly disguised "gib me moh money" mechanic to rip us off.

 

 

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[CATS]
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18 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Super heavy HE/SAP... not sure I really have many cruisers it's good on. Zao and Hindy, maybe? Pasta cruisers I'm only up to the Trento, and I have doubts until you get up to the higher tiers.

Tried it on Hindy, makes it difficult to get into positions. Removed it after one game.

On the other hand tried it on Azuma with a concealment of around 15km and it works quite weill. She can take the damage and dishes out a lot. Add Top Grade Gunner and she becomes fearsome under 15km range.

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Im still very much experimenting one of the hard things is trying to tell if the passive skills have a noticeable impact, for example im finding dazzle quite handy but outnumbered is hard to really test regularly. 

 

I will be curious to see if people find swift in silence a useful skill or not, I can see the appeal in a torp boat, however over a skill such as dazzle (for when things go wrong) or RPF it seems an expensive choice.  

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[JCPB]
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Let me start by saying thanks to DFens for starting this topic.

I've been looking at what this whole Dead-Eye storm is about, and frankly I'm a bit mystified. Same with many of the other skills, it seems that there are plenty of drawbacks for the unique perks. Sure, 10% accuracy increase at range is great, but unless your detection radius is small and the gunrange very large you'll have little use for it, and you WILL be of little use to your team. You won't soak damage staying at range, so when multiple BBs stay at a distance, you leave your fellow CL/CA's as cannonfodder.

 

The odds of an enemy appearing in your standard detection range may be small at the start of a match, but odds are that you'll not have any use for this perk for much of the match (same goes for concealment expert on BBs, frankly). So, brawling BBs can't really use it, neither can low tier BBs and that leaves us with just a few that can. Will this change the meta? I'm not sure...

 

The same goes for other skills, really. For each perk you are likely to incur penalties (e.g. high detection radius for heavier shells on cruisers). I'm not entirely sure any of these skills will drastically impact the meta although there has never been a better incentive to just try and kite as there is now.

 

I will fill in the form when I have got a feel for all of the skills, to prevent multiple unknowns.

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My personal take so far:

 

1. Dead-Eye - Skill can be literally used by any BB, however as BB's seem to have the most viable 4 point skills you might run out of skillpoints at some time, depending on what you are trying to spec for.

2. Super Heavy AP shells (BB) - The penalty on the fire extinguishing time is too harsh. Perhaps some Russian battleboates with their non-existing DCP cooldown timer can pull it off, will most likely avoid it.
3. Super heavy HE and SAP shells (multiple choice) - Gave it a try in Kronshtadt (together with TGG; 18.2 shooting, 18.1 visibility) and was not impressed but perhaps it was not the correct choice of chassis. Cruisers giving up concealment is a real punishment given how the spotting system and established meta work, so I can't see myself taking it apart from meme builds.
4. Heavy AP shells (Cruisers) - Immediately picked it up once I realized that cruisers will otherwise have a difficult time spending points on general improvements. If you do not have workable torps (IJN) or if you do not want to build a dedicated Flak cruiser you are running out of options rather fast.
5. Outnumbered - Even while you could theoretically force it (joining your teams weak flank etc) the skill is still way too situational. Apart from that, who wants to fight at a numerical disadvantage on purpose while being a cruiser yourself?
6. Top Grade Gunner - Looks nice for Moskva or Stalingrad who have bigger concealment than most BBs. Also looks nice in case your cruiser can somehow go DD hunting. However the later is not especially advised in the current meta.
7. Dazzle - Took this skill for hybrid DDs that occasionally get outspotted by or want to battle torpedo DDs more often than not, or for DDs that can't outrange 10km/12km radar with their torps. So if you blink in once in a while the counter battery fire will hopefully not be as devastating.
8. Fearless Brawler (multiple choice) - Prime choice for all "this DD has more concealment than some cruisers" gunboats.
9. Swift in Silence - Nice skill for torpedo destroyers, especially as many of those tend to be rather slow.
10. Extra-Heavy AP shells (DD) - Must be a skill in preperation of the new German DD line. Not worthwhile imho, even for DDs like Z-39.

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[ZEN]
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You need to add the option for "Meme Builds" on the 'Super heavy HE and SAP shells (multiple choice)' question.

 

Cause I stuck it on the Henry with the legendary module just for laughs... 20.3km detection, and still got 3rd on the team :Smile_trollface:

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59 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Incidentally, if WG want to salvage some measure of respect after this :etc_swear:show, my suggestion would be to permanently remove the cost of respeccing captains.

 

I doubt it's a huge source of income these days anyway, and it's not as if the game is lacking in other monetization features.

Respeccing is waaayyyyy overpriced normally. Just one of those annoying WG money grabs that fuels my distrust in the good faith of that company.

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[SM0KE]
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I'll come back to this when I've experimented a bit (a lot?) more; for a mediocre player, picking the 'best' skills can be troublesome as it can be difficult to make out how good things are (and how often) against the 'background radiation' of my own intermittent incompetence.

 

FWIW I've largely concluded that the first ten points for DDs want to be essentially the same as they were before (yay, variety) although some torp boats might go for Liquidator over PM, I suppose. I'm hoping that the better players on here will be able to provide some spiritual guidance re: the other points...

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33 minutes ago, Drs_Adelaar said:

 

Do you play much t8-t10? Most matches, the greater part of the game most bbs are firing at, say, 15-20 km. Bbs at that tier tend to have 12-14 km concealment with CE, and range 20-26 km. You can get plenty of use out of deadeye even without camping the A line. Even a brawler will be at midrange most of the game, in most games. Particularly at T10.

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19 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

My personal take so far:

5. Outnumbered - Even while you could theoretically force it (joining your teams weak flank etc) the skill is still way too situational. Apart from that, who wants to fight at a numerical disadvantage on purpose while being a cruiser yourself?

 

 

I personally figured it would be nice when you're losing, but that's not really the mentality you want to use when you are training your commanders :')
Besides, allied ships are always in view while enemy ships aren't, so even IF there are numerically more enemy ships within range, compared to allies, you need to have them all spotted which gets progressively harder the less allies are around.

 

Just now, arttuperkunas said:

Do you play much t8-t10? Most matches, the greater part of the game most bbs are firing at, say, 15-20 km. Bbs at that tier tend to have 12-14 km concealment with CE, and range 20-26 km. You can get plenty of use out of deadeye even without camping the A line. Even a brawler will be at midrange most of the game, in most games. Particularly at T10.

I'm a peasant so I only have two T8s yet. I figured as much but I didn't include it in my comment so you've rightfully pointed out what I missed. Thanks for adding though.

 

On a personal note, I haven't enjoyed the high tiers much as the skill discrepancy is so awefully large. :)

Edited by Drs_Adelaar
Added response to arttu
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That would explain your original response. Mid and low tier is more brawly and there is a low delta between effective max range (around 10-15 km depending on ship) and max concealment. At t10 you have ships that are accurate at 15, 20, even 25 km. The “dead eye delta” is much higher, up to 10 km in extreme cases like thunderer and Yamato.

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bot eye

only on bb with base detection under 15km. since mid tier maps are small and you get a lot more yolo. and i dont have the patience to burrow into corners.

 

preferably those i can get the detection under 12.5 if i can actually get an answer on wthf weegee means be "standard" detection.

does it mean standard det. with other skills active but excluding things like being on fire.

or

does it mean standard det the ship is bought with.

 

heavy ap

nope. other things clearly more useful. they screwed the pooch on this. should have been a skill trading time to target for better plunging fire.

 

heavy he

only on pastas and high velosity gunned CA since i dont want to be under 13km with these in the new meta anyway. lower dispersion means more devstrikes, but also smaller clusters to dodge.

 

other ships il be using more concealment because the detection mechanics are a cudgel and should account for angular size of the ships silhouette.

 

outnumbered

nope. camper skill. only useful for when you let your flank die and want to run to pitch your tent on another island.

 

tgg

ce is more important.

 

dazzle

going to use it on dd with decent alpha for snipe salvos.

 

brawler
no. better gun range is more important to me on boats that would use this.

 

swift

torp boats and maybe RN for better kiting away

 

ddap

no. not remotly. if it was trading muzzle velocity for better bounce angles it might have been interesting in some cases.

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[JRM]
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I gave answers the way i am reasonably sure it will end up, cant be 100% sure until I actually try all the combos out...

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40 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

My personal take so far:

 

1. Dead-Eye - Skill can be literally used by any BB, however as BB's seem to have the most viable 4 point skills you might run out of skillpoints at some time, depending on what you are trying to spec for.

2. Super Heavy AP shells (BB) - The penalty on the fire extinguishing time is too harsh. Perhaps some Russian battleboates with their non-existing DCP cooldown timer can pull it off, will most likely avoid it.
3. Super heavy HE and SAP shells (multiple choice) - Gave it a try in Kronshtadt (together with TGG; 18.2 shooting, 18.1 visibility) and was not impressed but perhaps it was not the correct choice of chassis. Cruisers giving up concealment is a real punishment given how the spotting system and established meta work, so I can't see myself taking it apart from meme builds.
4. Heavy AP shells (Cruisers) - Immediately picked it up once I realized that cruisers will otherwise have a difficult time spending points on general improvements. If you do not have workable torps (IJN) or if you do not want to build a dedicated Flak cruiser you are running out of options rather fast.
5. Outnumbered - Even while you could theoretically force it (joining your teams weak flank etc) the skill is still way too situational. Apart from that, who wants to fight at a numerical disadvantage on purpose while being a cruiser yourself?
6. Top Grade Gunner - Looks nice for Moskva or Stalingrad who have bigger concealment than most BBs. Also looks nice in case your cruiser can somehow go DD hunting. However the later is not especially advised in the current meta.
7. Dazzle - Took this skill for hybrid DDs that occasionally get outspotted by or want to battle torpedo DDs more often than not, or for DDs that can't outrange 10km/12km radar with their torps. So if you blink in once in a while the counter battery fire will hopefully not be as devastating.
8. Fearless Brawler (multiple choice) - Prime choice for all "this DD has more concealment than some cruisers" gunboats.
9. Swift in Silence - Nice skill for torpedo destroyers, especially as many of those tend to be rather slow.
10. Extra-Heavy AP shells (DD) - Must be a skill in preperation of the new German DD line. Not worthwhile imho, even for DDs like Z-39.

Agree for the most part except for a few differences:

3. Super heavy HE and SAP shells (multiple choice) - Only take if you want to do a meme 20km detection build with Top Grade Gunner. otherwise a trash skill, as a 3rd of the effectiveness of the old BFT on super light cruisers.

4. Heavy AP shells (Cruisers) - would only take because nothing else I would ever want to take and even then the buff is so small you will barely notice it 300 damage extra on a citadel hit or 100 extra damage on a pen, or a pitiful extra 30 damage on an overpen...

5. Outnumbered - As said can only be triggered if your team lemmings the opposite flank so you rely on your team being idiots to get even a chance to trigger it.

6. Top Grade Gunner - Too expensive for a buff that only triggers in specific situations and the buff is quite small TBH for example Reload mod almost has double the buff and that is active the whole time.

7. Dazzle - Considered it, but as the cost of DD captains in general has increased you generally don't have the points to spare for it, suppose ships that did take BFT could switch to it as 'BFT' is now a dead skill but for me it was easier to just switch to torp reload or extra consumables instead.

8. Fearless Brawler (multiple choice) - A much worse BFT that gives a concealment debuff and only buffs you when spotted to so you are not rewarded to sinking an enemy DD and using his smoke or using islands smartly to fire undetected and you won't get the effect. Costs 1 more point than BFT did but is more situational, gives the same buff but with debuffs, for example if you take it on a Kleber you can no longer stealth torp.

9. Swift in Silence - Why, so WG want IJN DDs to never use their guns? I used to use BFT on my Shima for contesting caps so why would I want to nerf the gun reload? Also as BFT has been nerfed so much I had no option but to switch to Torpedo reload instead on Shima.

10. Extra-Heavy AP shells (DD) - 5% is such a small buff you will barely notice it... trash...

 

Basically the buffs given are too small to be worth picking in 90% of cases and you would only take them because you have points left over and none of the other skills are worth picking and on the other hand the cost is too high for a skill that has a massive negative attached to it for a intermittent small buff.

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[THESO]
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fun fact:

i come to conclusion that, xcept silent swift on torpboats (goes on all), the new t3 (* or t4?! :D... idcr :)) cruiser skill is the only perceive as "mandatory" on all kiting cruisers. and that only coz other more usable skills got shifted or removed (hrgnnn), so i have the pts to spent with no more use. indeed, on other classes, i rather have like always 1 pt short to achieve the relative same build as b4 (torp protection, looking at u....). on 21pts captns ofc lol *sigh*...

in the end, on all of these in regard to most classes, that's a big no. they are partly way too situational and far from being a true alternative to the old skilltree!

also, many of these simply cater to the extreme when get stacked in effect (like 22sec yama anyone rofl?!)... after adding extremes ships more and more (xtrem dw's, xtrem he spam, xtrem calibre, xtreme consumables, xtreme speed, xtreme armor and so on). i think it's a bit like the game being on steroids in comparison to like 2 yrs ago.

 

powercreep is real

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I am actually considering to keep Dead Eye off all BBs but Slava/Thunderer/Vermont, as I don't really need it and I do not want to respec all captains if WG decides to nerf the skill, as soon as the free respec ends... 

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9 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Basically the buffs given are too small to be worth picking in 90% of cases and you would only take them because you have points left over and none of the other skills are worth picking and on the other hand the cost is too high for a skill that has a massive negative attached to it for a intermittent small buff.

Quoted for truth. On most of the skills that do offer a numerical buff the number simply is too small (and/or penalty is too high). That is the exact reason why people usually select skills that do not offer a buff but that let them do or know what was impossible before.

 

Incomming Fire Alert, Priority Target, Last Stand or Radio Location are usually considered to be among the "better" skills.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

Incomming Fire Alert, Priority Target, Last Stand or Radio Location are usually considered to be among the "better" skills.

These skills also match the idea of an experienced commander, like the captain of the ship gains knowledge of the battle situation the more battles he is in. The one in charge of a ship can't suddenly build better AP or HE shells just because he gained experience in battle, however you can improve a ships reload through training of the gun crews or in the case of Preventative Maintenance looking after the ship before battle means less things will stop working during battle.

 

WG need to re-evaluate all the skills and consider can this parameter actually be improved by a skilled crew or is it more of a modification or upgrade that requires a dockyard and builder to implement.

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